does anyone here know how to make the eletronic edelbrock performer rpm 3500 work with the stock computer as well as its own to make my 89 firebird run and still be able to use all the controls i have in my car. how would i go about hooking this up to make it work so? is this a good fuel injection system to make decent power with? ill either be porting my 187 heads or maybe a set of 416s if i can get ahold of some cheap. as for a cam i have a zz4. im just wondering if itll work how well will it. would it make more power over a tpi setup if so how much?

 

sorry for putting this in the wrong section and can this be moved to alternate port intake section please.

 

I'll take a stab at your question since I'm a bit familiar with both TBI and this FI system.

Lets identify your goals and see how this system meets your goals.

Your goals:

Keep stock "controls"
support stock LO3 with ZZ4 cam and mild heads
Gain power over stock TBI system
Judging by your head selection, you have a small budget

The "solution":

First off, the factory ECM really doesn't do a darn thing other than controll your engine. So if you mean A/C, guages, and other stuff by "controls", then there is nothing to worry about when converting to other ECM's.

The motor you have should make around 250 fwhp with full exhaust and a decent intake, which is quite mild. With that said, your stock TBI system is more than adequate to support this power level with a better intake and slightly higher fuel pressure without limiting HP. The aftermarket kit you were looking at is a multiport system utilizing an eldelbrock intake. IF you took that exact intake and put TBI on top and tuned accordingly you wouldn't loose a bit of power.....TBI will however be a touch harder to tune because it is a wet flow system, hardly worth the ~$2000 that the kit costs.

If my intuition is right you are on a budget, why not stick with TBI for now as your stock TB will support 300 hp and a 454 TB will support 450hp. This will allow you to spend the money you were planning on spending on the FI system on a better set of heads.

When you are ready to go to a multiport injection setup I would skip over the kit you are looking at and "build" your own with a better ECM and intake. The holley stealth ram is one of the best intakes out there, combine that with a newer factory GM ecm and you could have an induction setup that can support 500-600 hp for less than $1500. For drivability you really can't beat a factory GM ecm, they are almost completely hacked out now days and the tuning software is free.

On a side note, no matter what you do tuning is going to make or break the combo. Don't think for a minute that you won't have to tune the eldelbrock setup. Every FI system REQUIRES you to custom tune it to your particular combo. Don't be fooled by the mail order tunes out there, they'll barely get you running and you'll leave big power on the table. FI is so complicated there is just no way to build a tune from a list of parts.

Edit: Just noticed your TPI question, just about any intake worth it's salt will make more power than TPI. TPI will pump up torque a bit in the mid range, but is hardly worth messing with if you are willing to go with an aftermarket EFI system. On top of that high flowing parts for TPI are mucho expensive.

 

well thanks for your help but ive thought of something new. what if i run a tpi wiring harness and computer MAF system and put this intake on my motor and delete the MAP sensor and just run it off the tpi computer and MAF. it has all the same sensors itd just be plug and play. BTW im getting this for basically free so im not wasting money on it. I think by switching to the MAF tpi harness and computer that i wont have to tune it although it still would need it but itd run fine with the MAF in place and itd flow more air than both system in case i decide to upgrade in the future. BTW if i get 416 heads and port those instead of my 187s how much more power could i see from this setup? also im using 1.6 rockers on the intake side, possibly the exhaust if i can get enough clearance too.

 

Sorry to hijack, but did you say an LO3 can get to 250FWHP just with a full 3" exhaust and headers, and a new intake manifold? Thats quite a jump just for intake and exhaust - i would have guessed maybe 15hp from from 2055's and catback, and maybe another 10 from the intake. Now I am pumped!

 

viper, why not use the TBI PCM from 93-95 trucks? guys have been modding these systems to use MAF. it also has the controls for a 4L60E should you ever want to step up. this PCM is way ahead of the 7476 ECM in our cars now. it has fuel and spark tables up to 6400 or so rpm. the 7476 is only good till about 4000rpm. after that it just guesses.

 

so could i use my existing tpi harness and get that tbi computer? im not a big fan of tuning never really understood it.

 

maybe im a little confused here, but you have TBI right? whats with the TPI harness? to use the PCM, all you have to do is repin the connectors on the TBI harness that should be in the car.

 

sorry for confusing you but i originally planned on swapping on over to tpi from tbi so i have a collection of tpi parts laying around atm. But i recently fell over this deal for the edelbrock efi. so my plan is to use the tpi ECU, wiring harness, and MAf sensor that i have then use the intake manifold, throttle body, etc from the edelbrock setup. so i wouldnt have to modify anything really for this to work such as 8 injector plugs which i already will have. i figured i do this also because im swapping in a zz4 cam at the same time hence my reason for sticking with the MAF system.

 

You are still spending a crapload of money on the eldelbrock intake, injectors, fuel rail, TB and sensors and skipping right over the important power adders like heads and cam.

I also think that expecting the MAF setup to not need any tuning to be a really bad assumption.

I'm not trying to sound degrading, but if your emisions laws allow it you might want to look towards a carb setup as it will be a great way for you to learn the basics of tuning. Once you master that you can apply what you've learned towards a FI system.

Slowfirebird,

I said you could make 250 hp with full exhaust, intake, and the most important part a cam. The stock cam is one of the smallest ever produced so there is lots to be gained in this area. Of course you'll never make it out of the driveway without tuning.

 

Oh so it needs a tune. Thats why I will never see 250 hp I guess. Not the first idea how to tune.

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...free-tune.html

Read through that a few times.....if you can follow that you can tune a mild combo. The DIY tuning board is also a huge resource of info.

 

no im not spending any money on the edelbrock intake setup. im getting it for FREE so i figure if its great flowing why not use it since its free. now i have a spare tpi MAF computer and wiring harness with a MAF sensor lying around. so now my thought is take all of that delete the standalone fuel/spark control from the edelbrock and just use the intake manifold and throttle body with injectors and rails now wire it up with the tpi harness and computer and run this system off a stock MAF computer which does modify for incoming amounts of air. now going below all of this is going to be either ported 416's or 601's. then while im doing that i have a zz4 cam sitting in my room which i am going to stick in the motor with the 1.6 rockers on the intake side.

now i know tuning is always needed but ive read that most if not all people that put zz4 cams in their MAF cars run fine without a tune.

now im just curious with this setup how much power i could be making with all of that put together?

 

Totally didn't catch the part about it being FREE. Then yeah by all means go for the MAF setupk, it is more forgiving but isn't "tune free" like the Ford boys would like you to think. As for tuning, it's not basic fueling that'll need tuned. It's the timing side of things and most importantly it's the pump shot that'll be all messed up as this intake will need a different amount of fuel.

 

yea i think im gonna go pick this up today and as for a tune i might buy the equipment and have someone help me with the simple things. pumpshot is exactly what? and what would happen since its different?

 

The term "pump shot" comes from the carb days. It was a way of adding an extra slug of fuel when the throttle was opened up quickly. What happens if you don't have this is that you'll get a lean spike which can cause a lean pop or backfire thorugh the intake. This is only a transient issue.

Every intake and throttle body combo needs a different amount of fuel depending on how quickly and how much air moves through the intake when the throttle is first opened. Since you'll be messing with a multi port intake pump shot isn't quite a critical as it is with TBI as you get some natural pump shot from the fuel lining the intake walls with a wet flow system like TBI. A single plane and a TPI setup will be quite different....you might be ok you might not. With the tuning equipment I can point you to 2 or 3 tables to fix this easily.

 

cool thanks.