Hi guys,

This is my second post on this beautiful message board. For you who don't know I'm from Sweden and therefore my English might not be correct all the time. Hope you understand. I've learned a lot by reading threads about open element and today my Edelbrock open air-kit arrived.

I read the instructions in the "technical articles"-section on how to mount the open air-element and everything went just fine. I've got one question though:

The clearence between the filter base and the coil is about 1-2 cm. Should be enough, right? I used electrical tape for the two contacts (picture below) and put a piece of cardboard to prevent it from arcing. The filter base though is almost in direct contact with the two contacts (of wich I'm not sure what you call them). The electrical tape is there and the cardboard-piece is in between, so there shouldn't be any arcing. The filter can't be placed any higher (it's a 3") because of the hood. What do you guys think? Look at the pictures below..

Without electrical tape and cardboard.







I removed the spark plug (? don't know what you call it) and the two contacts (the two black things) to see if I could replace the whole thing further back, but it doesn't seem possible.



So this is how I solved it. Electrical tape and a piece of cardboard. I hesitated to start the car when everything was mounted, because I was afraid of damage. I fired up the car anyways and everything works just fine. Took the car fore a drive (about 15 minutes) and no problems at all. Car runs great and sounds great!

I put the IAT nicely next to the air cleaner on the passenger side, plugged the vacuum hose and installed an aftermarket filter on the hose from the engine (not sure what you call it).



Should I worry about my solution or will it hold?



This is how it turned out!





I took the opportunity to clean up a bit under the hood and found a green contact that was unplugged. Can anyone tell me where it belongs?

 

you got the same open element as i do, but i didnt put anything between my coil and base, everything has been working fine for 3 years.

is your car a 305 or 350

i have a 305 TBI and if its the same i can run and check to see where that plug goes

 

Thanks for your response. Guess I won't have to worry too much about it then.

It's a 305 TBI. Would be great if you could look it up!

Have you had any problems with idle or performance overall since installing the Edelbrock open element? Just curious. My car ran great on the test drive earlier today, the throttle response is much better and I can almost feel the car taking a deep breath everytime I punch it. Waaay better than the stock straw-chipping-for-air-element.

 

i will run out and check,

but i do notice a good gain in performance when the engine is cold/warm, but once its hot and all its doing is sucking in hot air the performance gain goes away, you can take the cowling strip off your hood and it helps, i went and got a cowl induction hood, i have not mounted that yet but im sure its going to help alot

 

that would be your map sensor connector



Heres the connector itself



and a pic of my open element just for kicks

 

Wtf, isn't that...kinda bad?
I'm not that into map sensors, but I guess my green little friend should be connected. Can't remember seeing anywhere to plug it in.

I'll have to check it out tomorrow.

Is it even possible for the car to function perfectly without the map sensor plugged in?

Thanks a lot for the pictures dude.

 

yeah i dont think its good to run without one it gives the computer info to make it run properly

i dont know how it effects your motor(if its bad enough to notice) but i know it can be a cause for major problems

 

I think is map sensor is gone... I honestly do not see it anywhere

 

Looks good. I cant believe my engine bay use to be that cluttered. lol.

 

yup i cant see it either, if he orders a new one i hope he can find the mount for it(unless he doesnt want it) im sure someone here has a parts car or can find one in the junk yard and just charge him shipping on it because im not sure if parts store carry the mounts, you can make one easy too though i guess

 

you commented on your english , your american english is very good . its better than many american born members that post here . no offense meant to any one , just my thoughts . ( 2nd. gen. swedish/american ) good luck on your project .

 

I agree 100% ive understood everything he has typed without any troubles figuring out what he means

so Daphi dont worry about your "American English" because its very good lol

 

I had a similar problem in my Car when I went to put my open element on. I actually wound up using a pair of tin snips and cutting a small part of the base out right where the Coil is just to make sure it didn't rub at all.

 

did you just leave it an open hole? to me that would defeat the purpose of having a filter if there's a hole in the base,

most people buy raised base plates so it sits slightly higher, it will fit but you have to cut a hole in your hood liner or just take the liner off

 

It actually didn't cause a hole so much as it just eliminated the metal. Its covered by the base of the filter. I cut away just enough that there wouldn't be metal touching where the wires are for the Coil. Its also a very small spot that I cut out, not like a gaping hole that would actually cause an issue.

 

ok, i was thinking big hole thats as big as the coil itself lol, i couldnt imagine using an open element with a big hole in the base, but yours makes sense

 

Yeah no I totally see where you were going with that. Its a very small notch, just big enough to allow the wires not to be rubbing on something metal.

 

I'd imagine a car would run pretty shitty without an map sensor... Mixtures would be effed. I have maf though so I have no experiences with map

 

yeah i can remember unplugging mine to diagnose a major problem i had, but i dont know how it affected the car because it was already running like crap lol

 

I'm going back to the garage after work today. Right now it's nine o'clock in the morning here, so I'll check for the map sensor when I get there.

Unfortunately Firebird is not a common car at all here. In my hometown I'm the only one owning a 3rd gen. Therefore it's very very hard to get spare parts from junk yards. There is one car parts shop that can order stuff to my firebird overnight, that's it. I'll just have to loko into this and see how big of a problem I have here. Weird thing is that the car runs fine apart from some excessive fuel consumption.



Thanks a lot Uncle Tom and CaveCock!



IF i find the map sensor when I get to my garage, I wonder what'll happen when I plug it back in. And IF the map sensor is for some reason completely gone, what should I do?

 

FUEL CONSUMPTION!!!! that just triggered my memory, the MAP sensor is a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor,It determines the engine's air mass flow rate, which in turn determines the required fuel metering for optimum combustion

if you dont have one your gonna use alot of fuel


on a side note if you cant find it, and the parts store cant get one for you Let us know, im sure one of us here can get you one from a junk yard or parts store and ship it out to you fairly cheap

 

I know what the map sensor's function is and therefore I probably found the reason why my car is so god damn "thirsty".

I checked for the map sensor an hour ago in the garage but it's not where it is on your car. Actually I couldn't find it at all. I took some pictures and will upload them here as soon as I get home from work.

There's 3 different black boxes on the driver side on the firewall (is it called firewall?), one of them says "GUIDE". Took pictures on all of them so you guys can help me out.

I also called Hansen Racing (the ones I order parts from) and they can supply me with a new map sensor. I'm not sure if it's just "plug and play" in this case, or if I will have to make other adjustments when/if I buy a new map sensor.

The weird thing is that I can't seem to find any contact near where the map sensor green "plug" is located. Maybe it's one of the boxes on the driver side, I don't know. But why then would the green contact be on the passenger side?

As i said: Pictures coming up!

 

The boxes on the drivers side are all relays i'm pretty sure.

 

those three boxes on the driver side are on mine as well, two are relays and another is a different sensor(its a flat box like thing)

the map sensor is plug and play but it will take driving your car around for a bit for the computer to take the readings and make all the adjustments, it should come with instructions on exactly how long to drive around and at what speeds to reset everything, if not im sure you can find it on this site somewhere

 

Here are the 3 boxes I mentioned on the driver side.



Box "1"


Box "2"


Box "3"





I guess none of them are the map sensor. Thought I might as well post pictures of them anyways so that I'm sure.



And here's a picture of the passenger side. I know where the AC is, but what's the "round" thing to the left of it? You don't seem to have that on your picture of your engine compartment, CaveCock.



And while I'm at it, I might as well ask you guys if this is the famous smog pump? I'm buying a full-flow catalyst (is it called that? We call it katalysator here ) and I want to remove it.




I would also like to know (many questions, I know) what this is. I believe it's running hot water into the heating system inside the car. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

"And here's a picture of the passenger side. I know where the AC is, but what's the "round" thing to the left of it? You don't seem to have that on your picture of your engine compartment, CaveCock."

if your talking about the part on the firewall to the left thats your blower motor for your heat/AC



"And while I'm at it, I might as well ask you guys if this is the famous smog pump? I'm buying a full-flow catalyst (is it called that? We call it katalysator here ) and I want to remove it. "

nope your smog pump is a part of your belt system, ill go take a picture of mine to show you what pulley, i think that box thing has to do with your coolant, i dont know exactly what it is or does, but i do know you can remove it if you completely reroute or re do your hoses





and this last picture that is a divert-er valve it blocks coolant from going to your heater core unless you turn your heat on(i think) i know it has to deal with routing the coolant

[/quote]

 

smog pump is the one right under the AC pulley

 

also your "box 1" picture is missing two relays

heres what mine looks like



you can see your "Box 1" is behind a relay and theres another relay to the right

maybe your relays are just mounted somwhere else, but thats what mine looks like

 

Thanks a million for the pictures, once again. Really really helpful!

I wish I had more space under the hood. I'm thinking about deleting my A/C and have read a couple of threads here on thirdgen about it, but I can't seem to find any dealer in sweden who can supply me with a deletion kit. Is it possible to keep the heater box and just remove the compressor (and plugging all hoses)?

Have anyone else ever seen a missing map sensor like in my case? Can it be located somewhere else? I doubt it since the cable obviously is supposed to be connected to the map sensor like in the picture CaveCock posted on his car.

If no-one else has any ideas, I guess I'll order a new map sensor..

 

Good job on the install and making me want to get mine going too!

I have a Edelbrock Performer TBI intake which might help me out on clearance issues and I need a new filter, so why not do it right?

Also for the map sensor, head to a local junkyard and pick up a few to test out. It is what I did with my uncles venture and worked out great since they accepted returns on the non-working sensors and I just swapped them for others. Good thing I got lucky and the 2nd trip came with a working one.

Here is a video showing how to test em. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8EVhFc5Yqw

If the price doesn't bother you then its worth it new then. I think they are around $36 which is what around 257.50 SEK?

Anyways I know you just got done but if you don't mind me asking, I know you plug up the hose and from what I know it has something to do with recirculating exhaust air to the engine to make it run better but I can be wrong. The IAT sensor I might mod like a few others did and put it under the lid. What about the other small vacuum hose that goes into the tit under the stock cleaner?

 

i capped all my vacuum lines at the TB that went to the stock air cleaner, and the Edelbrock cleaner i have has a cutout for you to mount the IAT into so it remains fully functional

 

The problem is, as I said before, Firebird is an very unusal car in my hometown. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one owning one.. Therefore I probably won't find a map sensor in ay junkyrad nearby. Anyhow, I think I'll just order a new one. If it's only $36 (which seems awfully cheap) then it's no problem at all. I'll give my local dealer a call tomorrow and then I'll have it by friday.

Hopefully it will only be plug and play, take the car for a drive to let it "learn" and then hopefully my fuel consumption will decrease.

For the breather tube I turned it away from the engine block and put a new filter with a 20mm diameter connection. The IAT sensor can be placed, as CaveCock said, in the filter base of the Edelbrock open air element. You just have to drill a hole for it and plug it in. I will do that this weekend, until then I just put the sensor near the A/C-compressor along the firewall on the passenger side where it's not in contact with any hot metal or strong heat.

 

hahaha oh he meant the breather tubes, yea i turned mine away just like you did, i haven't bothered buying a real breather even though they are a couple bucks at the part store probably gonna get new breathers when i put my dress up kit on

 

All sounds good! You might of convinced me to buy mine. One last question how much taller does it stand than the stock cleaner setup for you? I know with the EB intake mine stock sits a bit taller that I had to take off some insulation for the twist cap to fit flush

 

my EB air cleaner with stock intake made a hole in my insulation, i can only imagine what it would do in combination with your EB intake lol

 

Haha yea, Ill check to see how much clearance I have today. If I dont have much it was time for a new hood anyways.

 

thats why i picked up a 3 inch Cirvini's cowl

i really wanted an SS hood and make it functional, but i couldnt beat the deal CobraKiller1989 had on his unused Cirvini lol

i found out quick that Open Elements don't combine with stock hoods after the motor warms up, so a functional hood is the best option if you want your open element to preform good

 

Yea, I am looking at a 2in purchase right now. My current hood is very dinged up and has some rust holes on the passenger side with some good bends from where we ghetto pushed it in the garage 3 years ago. I like the SS hood but I don't know about picking it over the cowl hood, I am a fan of cleaner looks.

I will see in a few weeks. I really want to make my engine bay cleaner and a dress up sounds nice to replace the dull looks of the bay.

 

Hi Daphi,

I,ve been lurking around this extremely helpful site for a while learning all about my car, but never thought I could be all that helpful or anything. My car had been jacked around with a bit before I got it, but thanks to TGO I think I,ve managed to get it back where it should be. I hope you have similar sucess.

Anyway, since I was going to the junkyard I looked around and picked up the bracket you are seeking. There are sometimes several thirdgens there so it was pretty easy. It only cost me a couple of bucks so you are welcome to it for that plus shipping cost,

I have never sent anything out of the country, so I have no idea which way would work out OK. Ideas?

Also it comes with the MAP mounting screws and the bolt to mount the bracket on your cowl, but it looks like yours is still there.
I assume you realize that you need a little skinny vacuum line between the sensor and the port on the back of the TBI or your car will only run worse. I can throw in one of those also, but then the box will be a lot bigger.
Sorry to babble on so much, I'll try and check back to see what you want

 

Hi henryd3!
Thanks for all your kindness and support. Can't believe how helpful you guys are here! Gotta love this message board

I'm picking up my brand new map sensor today and I have no idea what's included with it. Didn't now about the vacuum line but I really hope it's included. That should mean that my vacuum line is plugged or removed? If someone hahave a picture of this vacuum line I would really appreciate it!

I visited my garage quickly yesterday just to see if I could find the bracket for the map sensor and I found a loose screw bolted where the bracekt for the map sensor is supposed to be. I can make my own bracket for the new map sensor, that shouldn't be a problem. My only concern right now is the vacuum line going from the map sensor to the TBI that henryd3 was talking about. As I said, a picture of where the vacuum line from the map sensor should be connected would be great!

If I can't find what I need here in sweden you are very welcome to help me out, henryd3! I'll fix the shipping and pay for it!

 

Got my map sensor now and I'm on my way to the garage to mount it. I also bought a new vacuum-line from the map sensor, but I'm not yet sure where to connect it. Is it supposed to be connected to the tbi?

A picture would help me a lot!

 

you always catch me at a good time, lol

here is a pic, its on the back side of the TBI, should be the only vacuum port back there

 

Sounds like you have it covered. Making a bracket should be pretty easy, but if you need this one let me know. Have fun, your car should like this

 

CaveCock, I think I'm falling in love with you

Guess what. When I followed the vacuum line from the TBI I found the map sensor hanging freely down on the right side of the firewall. It looked kinda toasted so I guess buying a new one wasn't such a bad idea!

Anyhow. I plugged in the new map sensor, checked all vacuum lines and fired up. The idle is much more steady on about 600rpm and the car runs perfect! No big difference from how it ran before, but I hope the fuel consumption has decreased. It should.

So, I'm pleased with todays results and hopefully this solves the massive fuel consumption. I'm happy the car runs great! The only thing annoying me is the noise from the A/C-compressor. I'm thinking about removing it.

While I'm at it, you guys have helped me very very much and provide great answers, so I'm asking you gurus about this aswell =)

Since I've cleaned up the engine compartment and my shiny new Edelbrock air cleaner looks good I want to change the coolant tank (the plastic tank for the coolant liqiud, not sure what you call it) to an universal aluminium tank my local dealer provides. The only thing is that it can only hold 0.7 litres of coolant liquid. Will this work or is a bigger tank required?

I threw away the window-cleaning-tank (don't know what you call it) and got more space under the hood. I'm still not sure about the A/C removal. My local dealer can provide me with a delete pulley, but even though I've searched thirdgen for answers I can't find if I need the cover-plate aswell or if a delete pulley is all I need.

Thank you all for your much appreciated help!

 

I just mounted an air filter yesterday (I think the exact same one) and I didn't really notice a clearance issue with the coil. I will go ahead and but some cardboard in there though. However there are two sensors in the stock air cleaner. I don't know what they do so I just drilled holes in the new air cleaner and mounted them up, I just figured they were designed to be there for a reason so I kept them.

 

lol, i work nights here so i sleep for a few hours and play with my car the rest of the day while the wife is at work(i do have to watch the baby too, but shes happy in her bouncer in the yard while im working lol) and i have an Iphone so when you ask for pics im usually right there to snap one and upload it from the phone lol

anyways, i dont know too much about removing anything since mine is bone stock with everything still there at the moment(except for the sweet aircleaner lol) but i do know you never necessarily NEED a delete pully, if you can get a small enough belt and figure out the new routing to make everything turn the right way still(my dad and i left the AC compressor on our old Grand AM but we got a smaller belt and didnt use that pulley) you also gain a few hp by completely removing pulleys you dont need(AC,Smog,ect.)

and thats great you found the old Map sensor i guess the Previous owner dropped it and just left it hanging there lol

hope it helps the fuel consumption!

 

and about that tank, the best way to find out would be to take 0.7 Liters of water/coolant and pour it in your existing tank, if it is at or Over the "FULL WHEN HOT" mark on the old tank then the new replacement tank should work fine

 

Daphi

I was wrong about that box you thought was the smog pump, it is a part of the smog assembly, the pump itself is where that pulley is i showed you, but a tube runs from the pump to that box you pictured,

sorry for my mistake, but if you remove your smog pump, you can remove that box

 

Ok, so I can now say that my cars runs great with the new map sensor! Fuel consumption decreased noticably, the idle is great and everything feels much more in order!

I have now started taring down my A/C, since I'm planning on making my engine compartment cleaner and easier to overview. I'll upload some pictures tomorrow along with a couple of questions. Hope you guys can help me with this aswell

 

Hey daph, this is the cleaner right?

Clicky

Trying to make sure before I head and buy some things. Finally gonna get some floor mats!