I have an 305 tbi just bought it with no problems. when i got it and was testing driving the guy said it was a 350 and it had more pull than what i felt in a 305 until i seen the car fax, and saw what it really was. but it would start and run with no problem. then i drove it a few days and i come home parked it was gonna get a new air cleaner and air filter and it wouldnt start. so i checked my fuses checked everything put gas in the tbi to check the fuel pump still wouldnt start. but i did see a small fire but nothing major. called over a mechanic, he checked the wires make sure they were getting spark made sure i wasnt out of gas made sure i was getting gas still nothing. he finally was about to give up held down the gas and it started and ran until he let go out the gas. so he unplugged the sensor next to the iac the little one and it stayed running it was rough but running at a very low idle about 650 700. and usually i hit the gas and hang on for dear life, but this time it would build up pick up speed then i hold the gas at like 3000 rpm and it would act like it would stall, pop, and sound like i was going fast but slowly picked up speed. then two days ago it just wouldnt cut back on. so i called the mechanic again he tried what he did last time didnt work. he checked the back of the tbi im getting fuel, check the injectors spraying fine. check the fuel pump fuse its fine, check the plugs they dont need to be replaced yet, the wires are fine, im getting a spark from the distributor but i replaced it and the rotor just and case stilll no help. now my mechanic gave up and im stuck....another guy say it may be the part under the distributor but i have no clue help?
i would like to get it running back so i can have my daily driver..

 

The sensor he unplugged was the TPS. The slowly picking up speed is very familar with my injector going last year. You would step on it and would hesitate and not want to switch gears and would do so very harshly. Just becausing you are getting fuel does not mean its not a fuel problem, have you checked for pressure drop?

My cam had starting problems and would not even start with starter fluid when my Fuel pump went, it would just backfire/pop out the TBI. Before it would run rough without the TPS/MAP plugged in and would stall when they were plugged in but then the pump finally gave out.


Like I said, go pick up a pressure tester from Autozone and make sure a fuel problem is not it before going into somewhere else.

 

but my injectors are spraying just fine both of them, but i dont have the proper tools to check the pressure at all.

but i dont wanna keep spending money in the wrong area you know

 

My injectors were spraying fine as well, and did not look like a fuel problem. Spending $35-$50 to fully eliminate a fuel problem is a time saver and saves you money. Have you also checked for codes?

Check out Autozones # CP7817, I bought it and it works great, either that or buy the adapter alone and use your own gauge. I plan to redo my fuel lines and install a inline or external fuel pressure gauge, its seriously a time saver when diagnosing problems.

 

i mean but its dumping fuel into my tbi i jus dont know why it wont spark and start up..

 

You have a no start. You need to perform a no start diagnosis. There is a reason that a no start diag follows the course that it does. Thats because several things can cause this problem and you need to check them in an orderly manner.

First, check compression. Nothing else you might try will do any good if your timing chain has slipped. Next check spark on all plugs, not just one. Use a timing light and verify timing on cyl #1 while cranking the engine. Check fuel pressure. This is difficult on TBI cars since they neglected to provide a test port but if compression and spark are okay, you need to check fuel pressure next.

Now we know that all the basics are there. We have compression, fuel, and spark, timing is good. If the engine still doesnt start, we need to look at fuel management. Check TPS voltage, should be about .5 at idle. Check MAP voltage. Should be about 4.5 KOEO and drop to about 1.7v at 20 in/hg. Check CTS resistance, should be 3,400ohms at 70F and 185ohms at 210F. At this point, if you havent reached a solution, we will dig further.

 

well today i haved called 9 mechanics because i just cant afford the shop prices, even resulted to craigslist mechanics because i NEED my car back and my mechanic gave up and doesnt want anything to with my car but i will tell you what he did do ase doc

he told me he doesnt THINK the timin is off because he could tell i guess by ear
and he checked the plugs that were easy to get too
he didnt check the fuel pressure or timing light because he didnt have the tools with him to do it
we checked the tps wit a light that comes on if its a positive but we got nothing from the tps but did get light from the iac
and all that other stuff i dont know what it is yet but im sure he didnt check it lol

but i have a new mechanic that PROMISES to get it starting tomorrow

one other thing is that its running rich WHEN IT DOES START i get white smoke then black smoke that doesnt stop like the white smokes does. i got my muffler looked at i have no cat but he said i have an exhaust leak so that may solve that... what you guys think?

 

The white smoke is steam from the catalytic converter as it tries to process all the CO from the rich AFR. The black smoke that follows is soot from the rich condition as the cat is overcome and can no longer keep up. Running this way will soon destroy the cat.

I hope the mechanic you found will be consciencious and follow through with a clear diagnostic strategy. I also hope he has the intelligence, knowledge and skill to understand what he is seeing and what it means. These cars are not the most complex there is but they are by no means simple. A shade three wrench turner will have a hard time understanding the fuel management system and deciphering its symptoms.

 

BTW, The last paragraph of my first response refers to CTS, TPS and MAP sensors. Any of these three can cause a rich condition. The most likely being CTS or MAP. Hopefully testing these two will lead to a solution.

 

well i dont have a cat so its running rich for another reason..
and he checked it and the injectors are dumping way too much fuel and keep flooding my engine before it could start, so everything was good but the timing was way off, so got new plugs, the wierd pole like thing from my emissions wasnt plugged so he cut if off and plugged it up and im waiting for the call back about whats going on..

 

He's implying that the black smoke you are seeing is coming from unburnt fuel. If the car is running rich, it will smoke black, regardless of whether you have a catalytic converter or not. He's giving you the exact things you need to check, I suggest doing it. I know it's expensive to buy the tools you need, but we can't help you if we don't get the answers we need. If it's running pig rich, it's possibly that the fuel pressure regulator went bad, the CTS (coolant temp sensor), the MAP sensor (or vacuum line going to it) went bad... etc.

 

no i wasnt saying i wasnt checking it i was telling you what i did and didnt do, some of that stuff i dont even know about yet, plus i dont have my car to check it. its in a mechanics garage getting looked at

 

so about my car ITS STILL NOT FIXED, he has changed plugs, cap, rotor, igintion coil, put it dead on center, took care of my exhaust leak and now no spark thinks its the moduele under the cap nd rotor

 

Checked the fuel pressure yet? You have done that much and said earlier you did not want to spend money in the wrong area, well you did. Now if you haven't, go get a pressure tester and see if its a fuel problem the right way.

 

get the damn fuel pressure tester already

me thinks your car might start if you get it and use it!!

 

No spark? Be sure to check the coil and wiring. I dont remember if the 89TBI uses internal coil or external coil HEI. If its internal coil, check the underside of the cap carefully. Its fairly common for the button, which installs under the coil to overheat and burn through the cap, just above the rotor. This is especially common when plugs are fouled. I this case the coil needs to be replaced along with the cap and rotor.

 

lmao about that fuel pressure tester lol, i dont have my car to check it but everything that was replaced ALL needed to be replaced they all have never been replaced so those were needed. its getting fuel fine its just no spark now, the fuel was flooding the engine pouring fuel into the throttle body, but since he is a mechanic he doesnt want to listen to things i offer about the car so tommorrow will be the last day its there it hasnt started since 08/3 i need my new baby back and running

 

Just because they never were replaced, does not mean their not in working order. He won't listen to what you have to say? Then you went with a wrong mechanic, next time, when you send it to a mechanic, send it to one that will fix the problem and thats it, you said you did not want to spend money into things that are not needed, well you did. I suggest purchasing a fuel pressure tester next time, you can diagnose if its an injector problem, regulator problem or fuel pump problem with a simple $50 device.


Hopefully after all the money you wasted, its atleast fixed.

 

no its not wasted i will try to get pics of all the parts that came off it so you guys also will know they needed to be replaced, but yeah hes taking to long with my car i almost would rather paid double to get it all in one day.

 

I hate asking this late, but I find it odd, did you even check the car for codes?

Checking the codes, fuel pressure, and spark should of been the first things you should do next time.

 

you are right i never checked it for codes, im going to have to get on that.

 

i get my car back in the distributor is very loose i can turn it with no problem. so im guessing replace that?

 

Which part of the distributor is loose? perhaps a bolt needs to be tightened and timing rechecked.

 

Is the distrubutor hold down bolt tight? You loosen it to adjust timing. Did the mechanic ever get it to fire? Here is a list of things to check, off the top of my head, and the order in which to check them. First, check for spark at the coil, this will verify that its not just a bad cap and rotor. Next, check for power at the ign coil pink wire using a test light. Then test for pulse at the white wire with the test light ground clamp on batt+, while a helper cranks the engine. The light should flash. if it flashes, replace the ign coil. If it doesnt flash, remove the ign module from the dist and have it tested at Autozone. if the module tests good, use an ohmmeter to test the pick up coil. It is the green wire and white wire that connect to the back of the ign module. The coil should test at 800-1000 ohms. If it is not in that range, replace it. You will need to remove and disassemble the distributor for this. If all these items test okay and you still have no spark, then you have an EST circuit problem. Unplug the EST wire. Its the tan/black wire you unplug to set timing. If the engine starts with this wire unplugged, let us know.

 

i can grab the whole distributor cap and move and twisted with no problem when its suppose to be "bolted down"

and ase doc the info your giving me is better than haynes lol
but like i said when its screwed down i can still move the whole cap just fine which i know is a problem and i dont know if i get a new distributor or what.
i just bought a new cap and rotor a few days ago so that should be good right? and he did check the ign coil and it did have power a week ago does it still have power i dont know i dont have the tools, and all the rest of stuff you named i dont have the proper hardware to check, i can buy the stuff necessary to check this stuff and risk messing something up when i try to fix it myself, or i can take it to the shop and it cost the same what do you guys think i have nothing but time tommorrow and REALLY need my baby running.

 

Im not sure if its just me or is this a little confusing, it could be your wording though. you keep saying you can grab the distributor CAP, are you speaking of the whole distributor or the cap itself. if you are speaking of just the cap, than you need to check for the clips on each side that hold the hap in its position. if you are speaking of the entire distributor assembly, than you need to check the hold down bolt, and the hold down itself. should be on the front side of the distributor shaft, where the dist. goes through the intake manifold. make sure the hold down is positioned properly on the shaft, and the bolt is tightened to specs.

 

what i mean is the cap is bolted down to the distributor but i can still twist the whole cap and distributor with no problem everything is "bolted" down

 

look at this sensor i found toasted
could it be stoping my car from starting?


and the second is my tps wired together i get nothing from it


this is what it sounds like injectors spraying fine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu6UEmMMsE8

 

How many times do we have to tell you, just because they are spraying fine, does not mean its getting the right fuel pressure. My Camaro after fuel pump fully dieing, would not start at all and it still pulled enough fuel to give it a cone shape spray patern at the injectors. Even after it fully died it still did, pouring fuel into the throttle body would end up backfiring through the tbi.


So I thought you said a mechanic had it? Should be working by now if so.

Also take a better picture of that wire, from what I can tell that might be the Intake plug that goes under the air cleaner. Also what seemed to work for me for a while to get it moving was unplugging the TPS and Map and it would start and idle enough to move it around, try that and see what happends. I wish I had the time to drive over there and check the pressure for you and see what it might be, but can't tell anything without being there checking it for codes, fuel and spark.

 

the fuel is fine now its not getting spark now.

 

What was fuel pressure when primed? Cranking?

 

i ruled it down to ign mod or pick up coil because i dont have spark at the plugs but i do have spark at the ign coil

well i replaced the ign mod and its still not starting..

 

I hate to be the one to tell you, but that car looks like a wiring nightmare, and it's obviously got some sort of electrical problem if it's melting wires like that. Your best bet at this point is to take it to a reputable mechanic, instead of a shade tree mechanic. If you're getting spark at the coil, but none through the wires, there is some sort of problem with the cap or rotor. If the pickup coil or ignition module was bad, it wouldn't get spark at all (someone correct me if I'm wrong there), even from the coil.

Still though, if it's melting wires and stuff, for safety's sake, take it to a good mechanic.

 

i seen flames b4 seeing if my fuel pump was out thats where im thinking that from, and the module was bad failed 7 times at autozone n a row

 

i have now replaced the pickup coil, ign mod, ign coil, cap, rotor, plugs, set timing, gas is fine, still no start..

so im back to the title with ALL new parts this time...
i have fuel
i have spark
just wont start

ase that wire you said to take off thats the one in the picture fried, where does that go and what is it called so i can replace it.

do i have a bad ecm? and need to replace it?
i got a paper clip and check for light and never got one.

 

I am so sorry that I havent been following this thread more closely. Ive been busy with my IROC. I guess I wasnt clear enough. Fire at the coil means that the pick up coil and ign mod are working fine. The problem has to be in the cap, rotor or wires. Take a close look for carbon tracking inside the cap or on top of the rotor. Is the coil wire okay?

The key point here is the difference between the primary and secondary ignition circuits. The primary ignition circuit provides the pulse to fire the ignition coil. It consists of the pickup coil, the ign module and the EST circuit of the ECM. The secondary ignition circuit delivers the spark generated by the coil to the cylinders and consists of the wires, cap, rotor and spark plugs. The fact that you have spark at the coil clearly shows that your primary ignition circuit is working fine. You need to check for spark at the coil wire where it connects to the cap. Look closely at the cap and rotor. Something is wrong there. Its faily common for rotors to short out and ground to the distributor shaft. If you have no spark at any of the plugs its unlikely that its wires. They wouldnt all go bad at once.

You may well be better off with a good mechanic. It will cost you but at least there's less chance of throwing money away. Otherwise I will try to help you but I need you to go easy and listen carefully to what I tell you. My time is very valuable to me these days and I dont want to get wrapped up in something that I think will end badly. However, if you will work with me, Ill do what I can for you.

 

Well, since you now have spark, I would guess your timing is so far out of whack from spinning the disty around that you should probably start by checking the timing.

 

Im confused. You now have spark at the plugs? Does the SES light come on when you turn the key on? If not, the bulb may have been removed by the same person who hacked the wiring.The EST wire is a single tan wire with black tracer. In auto tech speak it is called tan/black. The two wire connector shown in the photo is probably your manifold air temp sensor.
How did it get fried? The sensor circuit does not generate enough current to do that to wiring. Was it connected to something else? The TPS wiring needs to be addressed. Your car will not start or run without correct TPS signal.

 

The spliced dark blue wire is TPS signal to the ECM. It should show .5v with key on. The gray wire should show 5v with key on and the black wire should be ground.

 

well here is my car after a mechanic got it starting while i was at work and after i took it to the gas station.

looks like i had a good birthday huh?

 

.

 

Uhh. Damn! Big Joe had the right idea my freind. Your poor, poor Camaro. As for your birthday, there's always next year.

 

WOW.
Should of done the pressure test to begin with....
Goodluck next time

 

that car was no doubt a wiring nightmare, I hate to see another one of our cars go up in flames but that was just a bad representation of the 3rd gen f-body community in general. I'm sorry that your car got burned up, but I think it was for the better. next time get a reputable mechanic, who knows what they are doing please. And if you were have a car again with wiring issues that far gone, have someone redo them for you, or at the very least, disconnect your battery when not working on it. someone could've seriously been injured.

 

anybody tell me ifi replace just the ignition coil and rotor now my vechile will not start i have tpi 1986 z28 camaro 5.0 engine all spark plugs wires are correct it did start before i change the rotor and ignition coil after just changing the ignition coil and rotor it will not start over

 

need help before i changed the rotor and ignition coil my 1986 z28 tpi 5.0 engine started but soon after i replace just the ingition coil and rotor plug all wires back to correct position and spark plug s are correct did i miss something it will not turn over now

 

this is an old thread. you will get much better exposure, and more responses if you start your own thread! and while the thread is old, and no longer needed, what you are doing is called hijacking. it is not allowed on this board