702musclecarfan

I have a 92 RS with the 305 with the 700R4 transmission. I am wanting to produce 300 to 400 horse power with a 5 speed manual transmission. My problem is that I only have about $2000 to do everything and the car has to pass emissions in Nevada when done. Finding Gen 3 Transam, IROC, or Z28 at under $1000 is next to impossible. I was told that a donor car would be the best way but it has to be 91 or 92 in order to work in the 92 that I have and pass emissions.

Does anyone know how to get 300 to 400 horses out of a 305 for under $1000? I can wait on the 5 speed tranny. I just want the horse power now. I have also had conflicting information that I can use a Gen 4 engine and tranny and that they will bolt in. Does anyone know anything about this?

Any information that you guys can give me would be greatly appreciated. Any links to information too.

Thanks to all.

torque_is_good

ok, so what you are asking is how to increase your HP by 76% for $1,000?

That is assuming that the 19 year old engine has had no power loss at all.

If you really "need" 300 flywheel HP then you purchased the wrong vehicle. The amount of money you need to toss at a 305 isn't worth it if you "need" 300 flywheel HP.

DSGx

Hes budget is $2000, if hes 305 is still healthy i dont see why 300 flywheel HP is not possible, all a l03 needs to be able to produce 300 horses, are some good heads a cam i better breathing intake and a nice tune to run it all, for $2000 its possible.

702musclecarfan

I am looking to get 300 to 400 horse power out of the car. If that means changing engines I will. I am looking for the most economic way to get 300 to 400 horse power or more with a budget of $2000. This would include the exaust system.

Can I take the engine and tranny out of a Gen 4 and have it bolt into my 92 RS?

In my area I can find Gen 4 Z28 and Firebird's totalled with good engines and tranny's for under $1000 for the hole car.

If it is cheaper to modify and or rebuild the 305 that I have I can do that to. Like I said I am looking for the most economic way to get the most horse power in the car.

The other thing that is a must is the car must pass emissions in Nevada when it is all said and done.

thomas1976

For every details abut swapping in a 4th gen engine check out the "LTX and LSX" forum.

Uprading the full exhaust alone is around 1000$.

A basic 300-400 hp 350ci swap could be somewere around 3000$.

torque_is_good

$2,000 soup to nuts (exhaust etc) is not $2,000 just for the engine. He doesn't have the cash needed

torque_is_good

Interesting, I assume that you mean an LT1 because LS1's would be a bit more money. if you are going to go through the hassle of removing your engine, removing an engine from a wrecked 4th gen, and then installing that engine into your car, do you really want to install a used engine as opposed to at least opening it up and changing rings, gaskets, oil pump and have the heads cleaned and gone over?

So yes, theoretically you might be able to get it done but then you'll be rolling in a used, dispostion unknown engine and BTW, optisparks are at least $300 for an OK brand.

Frankly, unless you budget to do it correctly, I will again restate that you bought the wrong car if you "NEED" 300HP and "NEED" to do it for $2,000 soup to nuts.

702musclecarfan

Thanks for the advise.

I found that I can get about 150 extra horse power with intake manifold, complete cam kit, headers, and header back exhaust system for around $1300. And will need to tune the car afterwards.

This will give me the horse power that I am looking for, and I can save up more money and do the 5 speed swap later.

bigred75

not trying to be a dick but 150 hp from intake and full exhaust and cam seems like a tad bit of a stretch. if you did all three of these combined with tunning id hope for around 75hp max. but im not too experienced thats just from what iv read from around here. either way best of luck. i know how u feel trying to get as much as u can out of the 92 rs i have the same car. and i am in college so i feel you on the budget too. either way best of luck man.

torque_is_good

First, the answers that you are getting may not be what you want to hear, but for some of us, we're responding based upon experience, not what we've read or heard.

I could be a wise guy and tell you hey, go get it dyno'd as a baseline, spend the $1300, get another dyno and then report back about how pleased you are getting about 50 WHP more. You have a 305 throttle body which has terrible cylinder heads with respect to flow. In addition to my 3rd gen project, I also have a 95 LT1 and cam/intake/headers/exhaust don't get anywhere near 150 additional crank HP. You need to get head work done to come close to an extra 150 crank HP. But, LT1 heads can be reworked while the heads in the 305 TBI can't be reworked much.

Nobody is trying to "show you up" here. We are here to help. I suggest that you find an older gent, not a teenager who has experience and speak with them. Your expectations are too high given the baseline engine that you have. Maybe try some 3.55:1 gears, headers, a free flowing air cleaner and a cat back. Also, have a tune burned in for 93 octane and see if you are pleased enough with the setup.

Doom86

You would be surprised what headers, exhaust and a good tune will do to a 305 car.

My LG4 picked up a ET calculated 60hp over stock with hedman shorty headers, 3in mandrel bent pipe into dynomax super turbo muffler, and performer RPM intake. The intake probably does more harm then good in a 1/4 race with the stock cam.

I do agree bigred75 that 150hp is pushing it a bit though. I'm not saying it's impossible, but very improbable. Maybe stepped long tubes, high rise single plane and a long duration cam that would bring peak HP in around 7500 RPM. In other words nothing you would every drive around town or anywhere but the drag strip.

torque_is_good

He has an LO3.

MotorMouth

My suggestion would be to put that money in the bank and save some more. $3000 to $3500 would be easier to get what you want. I would recommend buying a 350 block, adding a stroker kit and doing the rebuild yourself. But if you don't feel comfortable then getting a crate motor would be easier.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/D...?Ns=Price|Desc

Doom86

Right I kinda picked up on that. Which is why I qualified it "a 305 car" since all the low end 305's got the same restrictive manifolds and pipes.

bluers91

It wont be easy, but it is possible with used parts if you take your time.

Start by finding a used set of headers, Y pipe and a full 3" exhaust and get that out of the way. Yes, if you buy this stuff new it would cost $1000+ to do it right but used, not so much. Look at me, Rusty Hooker 2055's and & pipe $131 shipped from ebay, 3" catco cat $161 new from summit, 3" dynomax catback $65 from local guy on TGO classifieds, and $70 to have cheap shop cut and weld back up the Catback so I didn't need to drop the rear to install.

After that you if want quick power, find a Nitrous kit and you will be very close to what you want the cheap way.

If nitrous is not for you, find a used Vortec 350 & intake with low miles to go with your full exhaust. Swap in a used roller cam that doesn't exceed the heads max lift, get the EBL system and you have your 300HP fairly easily.

If you want to do it with your 305 its gonna cost more. You will need a nice pair of heads, decent cam to match, gaskets, timing set, fluids, etc. The list goes on. No matter what you need an exhaust first, so I'd start searching for those parts now.

bluers91

I forgot to add you will probably need a larger set of injectors / TBI and a fuel pump too.

702musclecarfan

Some of the info posted has been helpful and some has not. To those of you who had actual info and real numbers I say thank you. To the others (you know who you are) I say do us all a favor and don't post anything ever. When a person posts on this sight they are looking for help not criticism. I know that the 305 is not the best motor to start with, but it is what I have to work with. In regaurds to the 150 HP issue here are the numbers (all on the low end of the range) you do the math. K&N air filter 15HP, intake manifold 20HP, headers 15HP, exhaust system 20HP, complete cam kit 65HP. For those of you who are slow that adds up to a 135HP gain from stock on the low end of the estimate range. With a good tune and properly set timing 150HP doesn't seam that far off. If I invest the money and put on new heads and and bore and stroke the motor I'm looking at another easy 125HP on top of what I will already have. But that would be another $1300 to $1500.

Again I say thank you to those of you with real insight.

To the rest of you !!!!!!!!! **** OFF!!!!!!!!

camaronewbie

I don't have numbers either - other things more important to me to buy than numbers. But I can tell you this ....

Several years ago, I took a stock LO3 TBI 305, ported/polished #416 heads, added 1.6:1 roller-tip rockers, 1.94 intake and 1.84 exhaust valves, carb intake no EGR, yanked out AIR pump, headers, gutted cat, LT1 cam, hi-flo muffler. Took me over a year to get a tune that would even run the car - there was no way to get a tune for all that work out of a TBI ECM. But - even AFTER I ditched the ECM & TBI and went carbed - there was no way that I increased the hp by 75%.

Now - I will tell you that yes, a select few have worked there butts off and managed to get a decent self-programmed tune to run a decent 305 TBI setup - but it took a long time, alot of knowledge, and alot of datalogging. They will say it was easy - maybe easy for them. But it's NOT easy to most - that's why only a SELECT FEW have managed to accomplish it. If you're a chip programming guru, have at it. If you think you'll "get" a chip tuned elsewhere to run the car, forget it! If you think you'll do mods like that and have the car running again AND meet emissions inspection within 30 days on a $2000 budget, it just ain't gonna happen - hope you have a daily driver while you fiddle with this.

I'm just as sorry as the rest that have tried to be honest AND realistic - $2k won't make it happen. My current car is a 350 carbed, and it cost more than $2k to make that happen, AND I got the motor (carb to pan with heads) for only $600! But I (like the rest) are trying our best to help you by being HONEST.

And, you must consider one other possibility, because it happened to me ... your 700R4 might run just fine behind the 170hp 305 you have, but increase that to 300hp and you have a 50% chance of it needing a rebuild the first 100yards to drive. My 700R4 was as good as any that had not been rebuilt, but when I dropped the 350 in, it slipped so badly that I barely made it back around the block - the 305 wouldn't make it slip, but the 350 sure did. Next day I was removing my tranny for a rebuild.

I think the majority of us here are trying to keep you out of trouble by stating that you need to save more. But - it's internet advise from a group of folks you don't know at all. Take it anyway you want - but consider one thing before you go telling everyone that's trying to help you to "go **** off" - we don't know you either, and therefore we have no reason to lie to you about anything.

We all have better things to do than to **** someone off by telling them what they don't want to hear. BUT YOU ASKED!!! IF YOU DON'T WANT AN ANSWER, DON'T BOTHER ASKING THE QUESTION!

Takes alot of ignorance to admit YOUR lack of knowledgeby asking in the first place, and then tell everyone else that HAS EXPERIENCE that they are stupid!

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

Damn newbie, you tried to tune the car for a year and couldn't get it to run? I don't think that was the cars fault,lol. Just ribbing you man. After my H/C/I swap it took me about two weeks to get it about right. Then again I run in open loop only so it's a little easier.

Kevman

Actually, when I clicked this topic, there was a banner at the bottom of the page for GM Crate motors.. Honestly, $2000 budget, buy a new crate 350, change the cam, get in, and drive..

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Save up, research the forums on what members have done to their L03's and what their gains were and then after you do that, Decide if you wanna stick with it.

Also don't believe what online ads say that this and that is so and so hp. It never works like that. Not even close, it takes more than just slapping it in and the gain being there even more with our L03's.

Don't be taking peoples advice wrong, people here are talking from experiences and probably have a good point that they are trying to get across and right now its all revolving around, save up some more or just swap out the 305.

As for my advice, I don't know the requirements for Nev emissions so I dont know what would be needed to keep/get.


I say do the basic bolt ons, Read the stickies, Purchase EBL and learn to tune your ride.

turbosbox

Just get one of those police interceptor motor kits and that will give you at least 350hp.

thomas1976

From the air filter to the cam kit list, including the fueling and tuning will be around 60 - 75hp for the LO3. Been there done it.

All the mentioned uprades with the best heads, matched cam and everything perfect should get the ex LO3 in the 300hp range @ around 5200rpm.

For more hp better internals that allow high rpm will be required.



You should not get upset and insult people, for pointing out that building and swapping a 300-400hp 305 + transmission for 2000$ is impossible.

Not to mention 300-400hp is wery vague. 299hp would be perfect for a 300hp goal but light years and $$$$ from 400hp, still.

Start making lists with the parts you will need for 300-400hp setups and see what the price is.



Check out the LT1 cam, 305 to 350 swap and budged 350 swap stikys at the top of the forum. Lots of good information there for low $ hp.

torque_is_good

Young man, obviously you are at the point in your life where you only want people to say what you want to hear.

So, here goes. Absolutely, the math works brilliantly. OF course an engine with pathetic cylinder heads, rolls over and dies at 4500 rpm will gain 15 HP with headers and another 20 HP by hanging pipes behind it. And, an air filter will always give you 15 HP. That's 50 HP already. And 65 HP from a cam using the stock fuel pump, injectors and cyliner heads will always give you 65 more HP so, carry the 5, subtract 2 and we're already at 115 HP



sorry.......I can't lie but with respect to trying to have you benefit from my personal experiences of working on vehicles probably longer than you are alive, I will take your suggestion and **** OFF. I sincerely wish you luck and some people just must learn the hard way

cheers

OddJack

iTrader: (1)

You did'nt even use your fingers to add those up, did you musclefan? I think you're a genius. You add up power like you're pulling horses out of stable and strap them to your car. Interesting you say you come on this "sight" for help, and then seems like you can actually help others add horses to their car.

I have a L03 myself I am working on. I started by a k&n filter, added 3" catback, and now I am working on a dual snorkel. Headers come next. I like to take care of the essentials first then slowly work my way into the engine.
Keep posting your progress, adding power never sounded so easy.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

ok before this turns into a flame fest lets be absolutely realistic about this. Muscle, I FULLY understand your frustration about not getting the help you need. Coming from someone who's been in your shoes but you have to understand that a few of us has "been there one that". I myself am a diehard tbi guy. Why? because I'm stubborn as hell and I like to tread new grounds using things others say is crap. I'm not done tuning and I still have some more things I need to do to "button up" a few things but when I'm done I should be deep in to the 13's with my L03. Sure for some that's not that great but for a weak 305 that is good enough. If it holds up it's getting a 125 shot of squeeze and it will be easily in the 12's. Trust me, you can go a lot faster with a "4 inch bore" kit but I say screw it and have fun with what you have and learn by doing it. Later on you can use that knowledge and create something really nasty.

torque_is_good

First, I don't believe anyone has given him bad information, or for that matter, misinformation. Now, he has updated that for $1300 he can add 125 HP to an LO3. Your post actually adds fuel to the fire of misinformation.

So, since you too have experience, please come right out and say it, with headers, a cat back, a cam, tune and a new air filter will he be adding 125HP to the LO3. Bear in mind this is not a refreshed engine either.

Again, please be clear and to the point and not nebulous. Will he see that 125 HP from those items?

Nobody has told him to not do anything. We are just trying to get him to set his expectations properly and his response was the result of our trying to answer his inquiry.


FWIW, I literally just yanked the LO3 from my 89 project vehicle and after popping the heads must decide if I'm going to pay for machine shop work, get a 305 long block or go to a 350. I'll be selling the vehicle but because of the LO3 you must ask yourself those questions once you are considering paying for machine shop work and buying a complete rebuild kit. With my LT1, it's worth the money because of the gains for the dollars spent. As we get older, we look at things based upon return-on-investment vs being "stubborn". If I'm going to drop approximately $1200-$1300 between machine work and a rebuild kit then I'm going to repower if I can find a 350 in good shape with paperwork to prove it.

Do you see the return on investment? I could spend the same dollars and hit the ceiling with the 305 or still have room to grow should I desire with a 350. It comes down to dollars and for me, if I save $500 by sticking with the 305 then that's what I'll do. The car is a restoration project with the intent to be sold.

Now the tranny is another issue as I've grenaded my 4L60E after "upgrading" the LT1 and the 700R4 in the 89 will be getting rebuilt by a buddy.

DSGx

To be honest i think the most hes gonna get with headers>full 2.5/3in piping , a better intake and some tuning with the EBL is around the 19 to 25 rwhp range, LO3 i think have some potential for a fun street engine with some grunt to pull you back to the seat, everyone always talks only about Horsepower but torque is always fun to have in these cars and trust me i think this motor will respond very well to breathing mods for torque, the heads are junk for high rpm HP but they are kind of good very low rpm torque. Im gonna be upgrading my L03 when i have to the money/space and time , ill be very happy if i can atleast reach around 250 wheel hp with the lt1/vortec head/headers/exhaust/EBL tuned, hell if i can make my 305 l03 keep up and beat stock lt1s then im happy, its my DD its not like its going to be seeing 5k RPMs on a daily basis. Look dude if u really want a 400 HP motor then save the money u have , make some more of it, find a healthy or freshly rebuilt 350 for cheap throw some good parts on it, if its a vortec motor then all u pretty much need is a cam and mod the heads for bigger valves/more lift etc, also dont forget a 305/350 making 350/400 HP is also gonna be producing a bunch of torque wich your stock transmission is not gonna hold even for 10 seconds into a wot run with an almost 400 torque monster.

89redliningRS

Check sig below. I've got heads, mediocer cam, intake, headers, exaust, and dumped tbi to switch to a much easier tuning demon carb. I'd probably say I'm around 300 at the crank judging from my times. And shotty hp calculators online. Better gears would def help mine. I've spent close to what your budget is so take it for what its worth.

Heads: $500ish plus machine work
Cam:$50 used
Intake:$200
Headers:$600
Carb:$500
Exhaust:$200-300
Plus odds and ends

torque_is_good

BINGO!!!! i of course call to question if your total cost for the complete heads including rockers and machine work was $500. Maybe you found some for sale by someone who desperately needed cash??? heck, that's how I found a factory leather interior.

Even with your numbers, and let's toss in $300 for machine work and "odds and ends" you are at almost $2500 and that is with a used cam.

You are then sitting at stock LT1 territory that has a tune for premium fuel. Add long tubes and CAI to that LT1 and you have more. It again comes down to cost benefit and you said the magic words "heads" which the OP has not realized that he will need them.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

I never said anything about anybody giving him bad info, I just said I understand his frustration. As to the fact that all the mods above will give him 125 more horsepower I never said that either. In fact it can add quite abit more horsepower but for $1300 dollars I don't see that happening. With the right cam, heads and supporting mods yes I do see a 125hp difference. I believe with a good ported set of heads, LT4 hotcam, Performer RPM intake,GOOD headers and exhaust either Dyno Don's or 2055's and a tune he can see an easy 300hp at the motor. I wouldn't advise these mods for the beginner though as to it can get over whelming quite fast. So no misinfo here.

///DAN///

iTrader: (1)

as my father always says how fast do you wanna spend it takes money to go fast. All the info in this post is good you can make the power you want but the money is the issue . Pick all your parts you want/need to get to your goal which for new will most likely blow your budget , and that is where you need to get creative search for used parts ect , and take your time let ebay and the classifieds here be your friend good deals can be found . Good luck

89redliningRS

Price was mid 500 range when I bought the pair from sdpc. Now they are $620 for the pair. Reused rockers and pushrods. Only machine work necessary for the heads with a LT1 cam is milling them down which cost me about $100. The bonus here is that all of the parts used can be directly swapped to a 350 if the 305 goes down. That was why I built what I did.

http://sdparts.com/details/gm-perfor...parts/12558060

Doom86

Honestly I think the OP is fooled by advertising lullaby on how to build power.

But if you think that replacing the straw like manifolds and exhaust is only good for 20hp I have to question your credentials and if you have ever held one or seen a pair of 305 manifolds in your life.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

I honestly wouldn't put the stock manifolds on a 4 cylinder they are that bad. I don't know wtf GM was thinking when they put those on.

DSGx

Well i dont know , how much would u think a stock l03 would pickup in HP if the intake manifold is replaced by a better flowing one and the entire exhaust is done from headers back to 2.5in mandrel pipes or 3in ? I said 20ish HP cuz thats what most stock motors gain when doing such boltons, but since l03 are so restrictive both on intake and exhaust the results could be far greater from just simple boltons.

TonyC

iTrader: (1)

Used headers, 3" Cutout, 14x3 K&N, Port the throttle body (ultimate TBI), 125 shot of squeeeeeeeeeze

Quick and dirty!!!!

torque_is_good

I have a set of stock LO3 exh manifolds sitting on my garage floor......does anyone own a boat that needs an anchor?


to 82redling.......We're down to one auto machine shop around here and wanna guess what happened to their prices now that there isn't any competition? It's long block or 350 time for me as it's cheaper than what they want for some basic services

And to the poster who was offended by my saying that "you are adding to the misinformation" perhaps the choice of words were bad and I should have said "keeping the OP's expectations high" because nowhere on his list were cylinder heads. You understood the need for heads (no, not that kind )

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

No worries no offense taken. I just have been doing this for quite a while and I kind of have a pretty good idea as to what works for these engines,lol

torque_is_good

It's been a few weeks. OP, have you made any decisions?