TBI Throttle Body Injection discussion and questions. L03/CFI tech and other performance enhancements.

383 TBI cam selection

Old 03-14-2019, 08:27 PM
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383 TBI cam selection

I'm building a 383 stroker for my 1988 Camaro and need assistance in selecting a hydraulic roller cam.

What I got so far:

1997 880 block bored .030" over w/4 bolt mains from a 2500 truck
Eagle forged 3.75" crank
6" Scat I beam rods
Wiseco dished forged pistons
Vortec heads heavily worked on exhaust side w/stainless stock sized valves, competition valve job, Alex's parts beehive springs, guide plates and screw in studs
Comp Cams 7/16 1.6 roller rockers
Victor Jr 2 barrel intake manifold
Hooker 2055 headers to full 3" exhaust
WC T5 from a v8 1992 Camaro
Zoom clutch
28lbs PRW sfi flywheel
4.10 8.8 rear

The engine is going to be around 10:1 compression, I want to shift it by 6000 rpm. Going to be a street car that goes to drag strips and road courses occasionally. Planning to run it with EBL flash, and will likely start out with a modified TBI.

The cam I am looking at is this:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-08-414-8

Is it possible to get a cam for a SBC with the LS firing order?

Thoughts and suggestions appreciated, thanks!
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:03 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Good luck tuning it .. why not go carb with that rowdy combo?
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:56 AM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Originally Posted by 88RS View Post
I'm building a 383 stroker for my 1988 Camaro and need assistance in selecting a hydraulic roller cam.

What I got so far:

1997 880 block bored .030" over w/4 bolt mains from a 2500 truck
Eagle forged 3.75" crank
6" Scat I beam rods
Wiseco dished forged pistons
Vortec heads heavily worked on exhaust side w/stainless stock sized valves, competition valve job, Alex's parts beehive springs, guide plates and screw in studs
Comp Cams 7/16 1.6 roller rockers
Victor Jr 2 barrel intake manifold
Hooker 2055 headers to full 3" exhaust
WC T5 from a v8 1992 Camaro
Zoom clutch
28lbs PRW sfi flywheel
4.10 8.8 rear

The engine is going to be around 10:1 compression, I want to shift it by 6000 rpm. Going to be a street car that goes to drag strips and road courses occasionally. Planning to run it with EBL flash, and will likely start out with a modified TBI.

The cam I am looking at is this:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-08-414-8

Is it possible to get a cam for a SBC with the LS firing order?

Thoughts and suggestions appreciated, thanks!
You can get a 4-7 firing order swap cam, but not the LS firing order. I would not worry about it too much though.

Shifting less than 6,500 is giving up a lot of the intake and vortec heads breathing ability on that combination.

I would not suggest a cam for a lower rpm 4x4 truck for a car either.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:06 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

If you're using the TBI water pump and accessory drive, you'll need to drill some holes in the block for timing cover bolts and a coolant bypass.

If you're using the Vortec water pump and accessory drive, the block will be fine as-is, but the intake manifold may need to be modified for a coolant bypass.
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Old 03-16-2019, 04:10 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Originally Posted by Schurkey View Post
If you're using the TBI water pump and accessory drive, you'll need to drill some holes in the block for timing cover bolts and a coolant bypass.

If you're using the Vortec water pump and accessory drive, the block will be fine as-is, but the intake manifold may need to be modified for a coolant bypass.
I have had numerous vortec blocks that were drilled for the bypass hole and also had the timing cover bolt holes drilled and tapped. They only needed a pair of alignment dowels added.

The Vortec cylinder head blocks off the water bypass passageway and coolant will not flow through the bypass port without drilling the deck of the head.
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Old 03-16-2019, 05:08 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Originally Posted by dmccain View Post
Good luck tuning it .. why not go carb with that rowdy combo?
I already have a fairly quick car with a carb and have always wanted to play with a TBI combo. I figure if it doesn't work out I could always do the carb thing easily. Rbob seems to offer great support with his products, as far as I have researched this anyways.

I'm glad you saw this thread, Fast355. What off the shelf cam or specs would you suggest? I know the 4x4 name is a turn off for car use, but I want to pull decent vacuum and have something I'll be able to tune. I don't want something that throws bottom end torque away because in reality, it is not really a race car and I would rather sacrifice top end power and trap speed for low rpm performance. I bought a heavy steel flywheel for instance because I don't want the torment of trying to leave a traffic light with an aluminum. I'm going to buy Elgin hydraulic roller lifters for it and use the factory spider tray. When would valve float be a concern? Is this intake manifold just plain wrong for what I want to do? I am admittedly new to this TBI stuff and appreciate any guidance I can get from you.

Schurkey, Fast355, I'm not well versed in the differences, but the plan was to use the TBI accessory drive with the old style stamped steel timing cover. I am away from home so I can't look at any of my parts, but if you have any links with pictures I would greatly appreciate that. When I do plumb the heater core, I am planning to eliminate the problematic plastic heater control valve (or whatever it is called). The like new TBI water pump I have has a pipe plug in the top of it.

Thanks guys!
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Old 03-17-2019, 09:55 AM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-08-464-8/
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Old 03-17-2019, 12:06 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
I have had numerous vortec blocks that were drilled for the bypass hole and also had the timing cover bolt holes drilled and tapped. They only needed a pair of alignment dowels added.
I put a "service replacement" crate engine in my '88 K1500 nearly twenty years ago. The replacement engine was built on an "880" block, and of course it had the timing cover holes and the coolant bypass hole drilled.

I've never seen a block from a VORTEC application (which could also be an 880 casting) that had the bypass hole drilled ALL THE WAY THROUGH, although I have a core engine in the shop right now that has the hole partially-drilled, and another with no bypass hole at all. The short-block I used to replace the almost-20-year-old Service Replacement engine (blew a head gasket, then shattered a piston) was another 880 block, but with Vortec origins--so I had to drill and tap to make it suitable for a TBI application (photo below.)

The two dowels are nice, but not absolutely required. I didn't bother on mine. I installed the timing cover with the bolts loose, then slid the damper into position. The damper hub centers the seal on the timing cover. Tighten as many bolts on the cover as you can, remove the damper, tighten the rest.

Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
The Vortec cylinder head blocks off the water bypass passageway and coolant will not flow through the bypass port without drilling the deck of the head.
I have no idea why the head deck drilling would be important since the hole goes straight through into the water jacket below the water pump outlet.

Originally Posted by 88RS View Post
the plan was to use the TBI accessory drive with the old style stamped steel timing cover. I am away from home so I can't look at any of my parts, but if you have any links with pictures I would greatly appreciate that.





Note belt alignment problems when using Vortec water pump and TBI accessories (K1500) Other body styles may be different.


There's two missing timing cover bolt holes that will have to be drilled and tapped.
The coolant bypass hole has already been drilled in this photo.

Originally Posted by 88RS View Post
When I do plumb the heater core, I am planning to eliminate the problematic plastic heater control valve (or whatever it is called).
I think this is a mistake. Dorman sells (or used to sell) a quick-connect that seems quite robust--mine went in with the previous engine almost 20 years ago, and I re-used it when putting the "newest" engine in a couple months ago. The quick-connect has the proper heater flow restriction to prevent blowing-up the heater core from dynamic pressure.
(Or are you not talking about the heater-hose quick-connect coupling?)

Originally Posted by 88RS View Post
The like new TBI water pump I have has a pipe plug in the top of it.
You'll have to verify whether the plug leads to the suction or the pressure side of the pump before you try to use it.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:23 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

I built a Camaro 355ci TBI years back with this cam https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...make/chevrolet
Ran pretty decent even with a sh** tuned chip. Put down 300rwhp at its last dyno day
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:32 AM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Originally Posted by Schurkey View Post
I have no idea why the head deck drilling would be important since the hole goes straight through into the water jacket below the water pump outlet.
Because the bypass correctly drilled from the factory goes through an internal passageway and comes out through the passenger side deck.

I will also say I have seen a few Vortec blocks that did not even have material in the area for the bypass passageway to be sealed off. To fit a TBI water pump I had to tap the water pump and put in a pipe plug with sealer recessed into the water pumps bypass port..
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:07 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Awesome post, Schurkey! Thanks, I will check out my block when I get home. This is the valve I am talking about:




I want nothing to do with this valve, have had enough trouble with it cracking on past third gens. I plan to put a restrictor on the heater core inlet and delete the mess of hoses that goes along with it.

Thanks Gotchevy. that is more along the lines of what I was thinking as far as duration and lsa. With my Vortec heads that die off around .500" lift and the 1.6 roller rockers, it is just too much lift for my application. The duration and lsa specs are not too far off from the 4x4 cam I'm looking at.
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:19 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

I used the TBI water pump from my 305 and drilled a couple of small holes in the thermostat. No issues here for a few years now.
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:24 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Fast355 that cam seems a little small for a 383??? Did you list the wrong cam? I'd imagine all it would do is smoke tires and have no top end with a single plane manifold.

I plan on doing a 383 TBI build eventually too. I already have a bunch of the parts. I have been debating running the XR282HR or XR288HR or simliar. Run a single plane Weiand Team G and push it to the max. Just not sure if I can get enough air / fuel with a 454 throttle body or not.

There is another guy on here with a 383 TBI and promaxx heads I believe. Posted a 12.8 1/4.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:07 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
Because the bypass correctly drilled from the factory goes through an internal passageway and comes out through the passenger side deck.
You read it here, first.

I was wrong. Fast355 is correct

It is just as he said, it's a double-drilling, from the front face of the block NOT all the way through to the water jacket, and then from the right side deck surface at a compound angle so the two drillings intersect. Therefore the coolant would be pumped in the front of the block, with coolant returning to the water pump via the cylinder-head on the right side, front, then down to the bypass hole in the water pump.

The head-deck hole is at a complex angle--note the tilt of the pin punch I dropped into my TBI Service Replacement engine's deck surface. I've verifed that this hole intersects the bypass hole as shown in my previous photo, and that the factory-drilled bypass hole does not go all the way into the water jacket under the water pump opening.







Last edited by Schurkey; 03-20-2019 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:11 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Originally Posted by bluers91 View Post
Fast355 that cam seems a little small for a 383??? Did you list the wrong cam? I'd imagine all it would do is smoke tires and have no top end with a single plane manifold.

I plan on doing a 383 TBI build eventually too. I already have a bunch of the parts. I have been debating running the XR282HR or XR288HR or simliar. Run a single plane Weiand Team G and push it to the max. Just not sure if I can get enough air / fuel with a 454 throttle body or not.

There is another guy on here with a 383 TBI and promaxx heads I believe. Posted a 12.8 1/4.
It is a small cam in a 383, but it should have no problem making peak power up in the 5,500 rpm range with a single plane intake. 10% over peak HP for best WOT shift points puts you at about 6,000 rpm you want to turn.

My 350 makes power to 6,500 rpm and wants to keep on going with a 215/224 @ .050 cam.

I hope you have tuned a bumpy can if you plan to run a XR282. It is a stout cam and will not make much idle vacuum.

Last edited by Fast355; 03-20-2019 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:16 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Just so that I am not the only one saying it, read the review left on the retrofit roller version. 4,500 lbs Impala almost broke into the 12s with that cam in a 383.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-12-464-8/reviews/#review-d972884f-52d1-4c37-b833-f805dd12cc2c

The intake port CSA and lack of flow are going to choke off that 383 before that cam will.

Last edited by Fast355; 03-20-2019 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 03-23-2019, 12:35 AM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Thanks for looking into this further, Schurkey. I just looked at my block. It actually has the bypass hole in it. I pulled this engine out of a 1997 2500 pickup truck at my local u-pull yard. I also laid a late 70's era timing cover on it, and all the bolt and dowel holes are already present. Score! I plan to run a double roller timing chain in it. Also another interesting thing about this engine, my machinist said this block is the hardest block he has ever bored. He could only rough cut half the material he normally does because his cutter was chattering. He said Dart blocks are normally the hardest he ever bores, and this was a lot harder than those. He has done 2 bolt 880 blocks and they weren't like this. It appears that GM was using a different pour for the HD truck 4 bolt main blocks.

For any guys that are looking to stroke an 880 block, you have to use 6" rods. The cylinder walls are shorter in these blocks than the older ones.

Fast355, I'm not sure what to think of that cam you are suggesting to me. The 2912 Victor Jr 2 barrel manifold I am going to run has a listed power band 0f 3500-7000. You have praised this intake in the past, and I chose it based on your recommendations to others in tbi apps despite my preference of dual plane intakes for this type of build in the carb'd world. That cam's power band is listed as 1000-5000rpm. This 383 stroker I am building is going into a 3400lb 5 speed 1988 Camaro with 4.10 gears out back, not an automatic 4700lb Impala with no gear to speak of, so to me this comparison seems apples to oranges. Maybe it would be sweet in your van, but my Camaro? You always seemed to recommend others the LT4 hot cam on similar builds with less cubes, so this is confusing to me. Also, my heads are done flowing at .500" lift. I'll rev it to 6500 provided the valves don't float from the stock style hyd roller lifters. Getting around the meaningless 4x4 name, I still think the cam I posted is spot-on if it will be EBL tune-able.
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Old 03-24-2019, 08:11 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Originally Posted by 88RS View Post
Thanks for looking into this further, Schurkey. I just looked at my block. It actually has the bypass hole in it. I pulled this engine out of a 1997 2500 pickup truck at my local u-pull yard. I also laid a late 70's era timing cover on it, and all the bolt and dowel holes are already present. Score! I plan to run a double roller timing chain in it. Also another interesting thing about this engine, my machinist said this block is the hardest block he has ever bored. He could only rough cut half the material he normally does because his cutter was chattering. He said Dart blocks are normally the hardest he ever bores, and this was a lot harder than those. He has done 2 bolt 880 blocks and they weren't like this. It appears that GM was using a different pour for the HD truck 4 bolt main blocks.

For any guys that are looking to stroke an 880 block, you have to use 6" rods. The cylinder walls are shorter in these blocks than the older ones.

Fast355, I'm not sure what to think of that cam you are suggesting to me. The 2912 Victor Jr 2 barrel manifold I am going to run has a listed power band 0f 3500-7000. You have praised this intake in the past, and I chose it based on your recommendations to others in tbi apps despite my preference of dual plane intakes for this type of build in the carb'd world. That cam's power band is listed as 1000-5000rpm. This 383 stroker I am building is going into a 3400lb 5 speed 1988 Camaro with 4.10 gears out back, not an automatic 4700lb Impala with no gear to speak of, so to me this comparison seems apples to oranges. Maybe it would be sweet in your van, but my Camaro? You always seemed to recommend others the LT4 hot cam on similar builds with less cubes, so this is confusing to me. Also, my heads are done flowing at .500" lift. I'll rev it to 6500 provided the valves don't float from the stock style hyd roller lifters. Getting around the meaningless 4x4 name, I still think the cam I posted is spot-on if it will be EBL tune-able.
You yourself are the one that said you wanted to shift by 6,000. A cam with that much lift will keep pulling well above its rated RPM especially with a single plane. I have used the Hotcam in numerous builds but I twist them 6,000+.

That cam seems like it has more duration than you need.

​​​Also I use more cam in an automatic than a stick. With a stick around town you will experience lower RPM cam surge alot more noticeably than an unlocked converter auto with a high stall converter.

230 duration with good heads is more than enough to make power to ~6,800 rpm.

The Reed cam I used to run was like 214/218 @ .050 and .520/.540 lift on a 114 lsa and 110 icl. It made peak power at about 6,500 rpm in a 350 with the single plane.

I also feel the Comp XM 270 would also be a nice cam for your setup​​​​​​.

Last edited by Fast355; 03-24-2019 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:35 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

I'm usually the guy that supports keeping the stock injection wherever possible. I'm usually the guy making the case that the knock prevention and timing control of the factory EFI is worth keeping. In this case, I urge you to get rid of the TBI setup and just go with a 4bbl intake manifold and a FiTech setup.... You'll make more power and it will be WAY easier to tune, especially with a rowdier cam.
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Old 04-05-2019, 04:33 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Originally Posted by 1MeanZ View Post
I'm usually the guy that supports keeping the stock injection wherever possible. I'm usually the guy making the case that the knock prevention and timing control of the factory EFI is worth keeping. In this case, I urge you to get rid of the TBI setup and just go with a 4bbl intake manifold and a FiTech setup.... You'll make more power and it will be WAY easier to tune, especially with a rowdier cam.
I really do not agree on the more power aspect. A 383 at 6,000 rpm and 100% VE only needs 665 CFM. VE is probably more like 90% at peak HP with factory vortecs on a 383 and that results in 598 cfm. A 454 TBI unit flows a close to 700 cfm at 1.5 in/hg pressure drop.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:36 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

I saw this thread and said...huh. I run CFI on a 383 with a .612/.612, 236/238, 112 and my 82 runs mid 12s right now 3350 with me in it and half tank of gas. With a couple small tweaks I plan on getting it into the 12.40s or lower in hopes of catching Ben73 running 12.20s with his 84 CF in Australia. The cam the OP posted IMO is a little punny for a 383, but looks to be a bit torquey and may run out of power early. Mine keeps pulling like a freight train all the way out past 6K. I hope whatever way you go, it runs well.

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Old 04-07-2019, 02:52 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Buccaneer that is impressive and even more impressive on that type of fuel injection.
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Old 04-07-2019, 03:04 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Originally Posted by dmccain View Post
Buccaneer that is impressive and even more impressive on that type of fuel injection.
Thank you and it is impressive when you think about what it is with only two injectors vs. four or eight. But, as you can see from my sig, my setup isn't close to being stock in any way either. I just changed over to DUI coil and module last night and finally cleared up a slight miss I couldn't necessarily find. The Accel unit finally had given up on me after 15 years. The motor last night was running absolutely perfect and no slight idle miss anymore or high rpm slight miss. I hope to get back over to the track maybe this week before it gets hot here in AZ. If not, I may have to wait again to this winter. I also, need to improve on the governor a tad when shifting into 3rd, I believe I have the weights a tad light now.

Also would like to thank rBob and his FLASH II EBL. After switching to it, the motor is running and behaving much better vs having the old Ostrich interface and always having some type of issue with it, not anymore.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:39 PM
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Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Originally Posted by Buccaneer View Post
I saw this thread and said...huh. I run CFI on a 383 with a .612/.612, 236/238, 112 and my 82 runs mid 12s right now 3550 with me in it and half tank of gas. With a couple small tweaks I plan on getting it into the 12.40s or lower in hopes of catching Ben73 running 12.20s with his 84 CF in Australia. The cam the OP posted IMO is a little punny for a 383, but looks to be a bit torquey and may run out of power early. Mine keeps pulling like a freight train all the way out past 6K. I hope whatever way you go, it runs well.
Thanks! Cool setup, btw! Lift is low because I'm going to run 906 Vortec heads with stock sized valves and they die off at .500". With the Comp 1.6 roller rockers I own I'll be at .506" lift at the valves. I bought the cam I posted, so it's encouraging for me to see you're doing alright with more overlap, and clearing the rods with that much lift and more duration. I spoke to Bullet Cams, but was told they can't grind anything with as low of lift as I was looking for with 1.6 rockers. I know I could do more with aftermarket heads, but I'm going to see what I can do with these for now and have some fun tuning it. I'll have a really good foundation for the future if I decide to chase more power.
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Old 04-27-2019, 01:30 PM
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Axle/Gears: 3.31
Re: 383 TBI cam selection

Originally Posted by 88RS View Post
Thanks! Cool setup, btw! Lift is low because I'm going to run 906 Vortec heads with stock sized valves and they die off at .500". With the Comp 1.6 roller rockers I own I'll be at .506" lift at the valves. I bought the cam I posted, so it's encouraging for me to see you're doing alright with more overlap, and clearing the rods with that much lift and more duration. I spoke to Bullet Cams, but was told they can't grind anything with as low of lift as I was looking for with 1.6 rockers. I know I could do more with aftermarket heads, but I'm going to see what I can do with these for now and have some fun tuning it. I'll have a really good foundation for the future if I decide to chase more power.
Do you know who you talked to at Bullet? If you happen to call them again, ask for Tim, he rocks and knows cams. He was a GM engineer at one time I believe. Very nice guy and very easy to talk to, kind of laid back if you will. He certainly can help with a good choice of cams to get you were you want to be I would think. Just have all the specs dealing with your car and motor available if you call, cause he will ask. Good luck with the motor.
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