Joel Geerling

I was bored in class and started thinking about what mods I've done are the best deals as far as $ per (estimated) hp. Who else wants to weigh in on what are the best and worst performance upgrades? Maybe this could be helpful for people just starting to toy with the idea of what they can afford to do under the hood. I'll start it off (flame away, just warning you that there are no dyno tests for hp gains or market analyses for avg. prices here - this is just off the top of my head):

Lowest cost / hp:

-Cam swap - throw in a $50 LT1 cam (I'm ignoring xtra costs like new springs and gaskets and the like) for, what, 30+hp increase? Only a few $ / hp.

-Cheap headers ($200) for, say 15 hp? Less than $15 / hp.

-Open element air cleaner (average those who get K&N and those who buy the cheapies and call it $35, say?) for 5 or so hp - less than $10 / hp (and it looks sooo nice!)

-crank/alt underdrive pulleys (you can get a decent Mr. Gasket set for $75, so why waste the xtra $$ so yours say "March" on the box?) - so they might only free up maybe 4 or 5 hp? That's still an easy install for a mere $18/hp... OK, not tooo great.

Worst value (just re. $/hp):

-TBI spacer from TurboCity $60+ ($43 + rip-off "installation kit" + ship). Is there a measureable power gain with this at all? I feel like a fool for buying something that (1) Didn't help much and (2) I could have made myself w/ very little time investment. What an *** I am!

-Catback - a typical $225 3" single-exhaust catback kit, plus $50 for someone to weld it for you, say giving you another 10hp? We're close to $30 per hp!

-Hypertech chip - they retail >$100. Even the one I found on eBay for $50 seems like a waste. Can't wait to start burning my own (more for fun than b/c I'm gonna make a huge difference in power that way, tho). Has anyone (besides Hypertech, of course) dyno'd a stock car b/f and after?

<btw, please don't lecture me, e.g., about how I shouldn't bash catbacks b/c they're part of the big picture of having an overall free-flowing exhaust.... I'm just talking about 1-time cost/benefit stuff here, not any big picture.>

Buck268

Yes, I have done that many times. School is so boring.
My list includes lt1 cam, and air cleaner, but I left out pullies b/c of electronics and such. the last time I tried to figure out stuff, I included heads (vortec), and cam up with a 80 hp gain (total) fer about $850. but I am sure the prices and hp I used were way off.

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

the cat back should be up there with the best mods that we can do to our cars. Horsepower wise maybe not the best HP/$ but it complements other mods. You wont get as much out of an LT1 cam or an intake if your engine cant breathe.

Joel Geerling

Agreed. I was just talking about its value totally indivdually and arbitrarily, not as far as what best fits into the overall scheme of your mods. I might also add that changing your car's sound might also have a little to do with why a lot of people put on a catback, maybe more than for hp for some people...

Buck268

I concure

Mark305TBI

A better way to do it would be a "reduction of quarter mile/dollar" ratio. 3.73 gears and a positraction differential made the best seat of the pants improvement for me (hence I would call it the best modification) but it has an infinite horsepower/dollar ($600/0hp) ratio. Just a thought.

NJ SPEEDER

don't forget the chassis and suspension. it is a little harder to quantify it as a $ per hp, but if you use the basic 10hp= 1 tenth rule of thumb then figure a posi rear and 3.73 gears is worth 3-5tenths depending on traction. figure that is 30-50hp for about $350-500 depending on if you do your work yourself or not. if you take the lowest gain and the highest price it still works out to only $16.67 per hp. not a bad gain i think.

later
tim

Joel Geerling

Yeah, I thought about putting gears down, but I still haven't touched mine yet and I didn't want to **** anyone off by saying they technically don't chg. hp any... I think you're right though, about them making a huge SOTP and 1/4 improvement.

Jza

If you're gonna throw in extra costs in one comparison (catback +installation), you should throw in extra costs in all of them...

That said, a nitrous kit would be a great $/hp... say $500 for a 100hp kit. Which comes to $5 per hp. I'm not a great believer in NAWS, but there you have it.


Worst value: The Tornado. $50 for -5hp. lol Remember that thing? The 12v fan for your airbox.

Joel Geerling

I only put down the cost of welding for a catback install b/c nearly everyone has to pay to have this done (I don't think more than a small % of us have know-how/access to welding equip), whereas all the other stuff is DIY for anyone who wants to take the time. Yeah, Nitrous - very economical... I wonder why nobody else put that down?

I don't remember the Tornado - what was the purpose of that thing?

Four12'sCamaro

if i put the cam and the cam only in my 305 tbi LO3, will i have to change anything or will the car still fire the same and all the good stuff like that?

Buck268

Well, I am gonna be doin a swap this spring, and I am doing my research now. As far as I can tell, it is a direct swap. But new srpings are recommended, as is a new timing chain. If anyone feels the need to add to this and/or correct this, please do.

TBI89Formula

What is the lift and duritation on an LT1 cam??? Are any of the Compucams close to this cam??? Also Would I need a higher stall speed torque converter???

-'89 Formula WS6 L03 700R4

Buck268

I am not exactly sure of the specs, but since you can pick one up fer like $50, and since it supposedly has a good power gain, I figure why not? I got a cam, springs, locks, and retainers fer $35 shipped. And no, you really dont need a higher stall speed converter.

RyanSS

I would love to experiment with the LT1 cam in my car, but the 305 isn't going to be in there for long, so maybe another car.

jptaylor2

ryan, this is just a question so dont freak out. ive built several 377ci motors and was just wondering why you would destroke a 400 to put in your car. the motors ive built have all been for high rpm track motors. the 400 alone would be worth just rebuilding and installing. if youve got a good set of 350 heads just have the steam holes drilled and drop them on the 400. unless this motor is going to be at high rpm most of the time id build the 400 for torque and keep max rpm down to around 5800. just my .02 but like i said im more than familiar with the 377s.

jptaylor

Tas

he might be making a stroker 377 with the 350 block and 400 type crank. That's a 377 too.

:hail: :lala:

jptaylor2

point taken

NJ SPEEDER

most guys who destroke any motor do it to gain reliable operating rpm. in any motor the longer the stroke the less stable everything becomes at higher rpms(this discussion really starts at 6500rpm minimum). with that in mind, a 350 has a more stable bottom end than a 400, but an old school 265 V8 has the best one of all. a 3inch stroke wiht 5.7 connecting rods

later
tim

dmair5_0

Just a note, I've installed three cat-back systems so far and never had to weld anything. MAC's, and DynoMax. Two hours on a lift and you're done.

Joel Geerling

If only everyone had a lift! Taking off my old exhuast was a breeze (except when my dumb *** held the saw the wrong way for a sec and sent a shower of sparks at my forearm ), but lying on my back under my car and installing my cat & catback by myself was turning into enough of a PITA that I just took it to the guy I was gonna have weld it anyway and let him finish it...

How did it go for you, w/o any welds? My assumption was that there would be some shifting and loosening - did you have to re-tighten some clamps for a while? No exhaust leaks?

dmair5_0

I had to retighten a couple of bolts on the first hanger after the cat on the car I have now. Surprisingly, I have never had an exhaust leak or any problems! The lift was a co-workers. Thank *** for small favors!

Buck268

uh...since when is 'g0d' a 'bad' word?

dmair5_0

Good question...... was wondering why the astrics appeared too??

AJ_92RS

Using the word 'GØD' is a religious statement. This message board isn't about that, and doesn't want to offend anyone by using his name in an obscene way. Or upset anyone who perhaps doesn't feel there is a 'GØD'.

It just simplifies things, that's all.

BTW, I suggest that this topic stops here. Anymore talk about it and this thread will be locked, and we could be refrained from using the board again.

NOW,

I have done many exhausts on my back, and after a while you get good at it. I have also never welded any pipes together. Usually (where I live anyway) rust does that for you.

I have never had any leaks, nor anything come apart.

AJ

Tas

I don't like locking things. I usualy just delete or move.

92RS shearn

LT1 cam for $50, wow, at sdpc2000.com its $219.75

Where are you getting them for $50???

DM91RS

"They" are referring to buying used cam's usually from E-bay. Nothing wrong with a used roller cam which is what is in your motor.

It will work well with the mods that you have listed.

ir0cz

Ok here's mine......buy some of my prices might be cheaper than yours cause I used to work at a dealership.

BEST...

*3 row aluminum radiator $160....keeps car at 160*
*Hypertech chip....paid $50 for it new (hook up)....i didn't think
it did that much, but i decided to take the chip out one day
and take it for a spin, and it was MUCH less responsive w/out
the chip......and if i wanted, i could resale it for $50..good deal
*K&N filter..will save you $$$ in the longrun, and give you some
HP
*OPEN air element...bought it off a friend for $15...that in
conjunction w/ the K&N gave a few horses
*Removed cat....$20 to get a pipe put in place
*Cat back system....got the flowmaster free, got it all put
on for $120....includes 2 3 1/2 inch tips for $30 apiece..
Not bad if you consider that I didn't have to get the tips,
so i actually got about 10 HP for $60. And the car gets
bad *** exaust note to go w/ the HP.
*Gutted out smog pump....free, dunno how many horses
*Ported throttle body shaft....free, dunno bout HP

WORST...

*Posi, 3.73, installation kit.....$450...that much for about .3
seconds on the track....i shoulda just got a nitrous kit and
ran over a second quicker....but hey, i was gonna need it
eventually anyways.
*Hedman headers....got them for the GREAT price of $79, but
then you include the $50 for the custom Y-pipe, and the pain in the *** of installing them, then the pain in *** of fixing they're
frequent blown gaskets, its not worth it for 10-15 HP and a
nice exaust note.
*March crank pulley....cost $77 for the 2 set (i haven't put on the
alternator pulley) so for $77, i got like 5HP, and and a risk
of overheating if I sit too long.
*MSD 8.5 mm wires..$58 and i'm sure they dont do much over stock


THATS ALL I CAN THINK OF RIGHT NOW

Joel Geerling

What are you really - a K&N salesman?
Maybe this is a dumb question, but what is the shaft in the throttle body?How often did that happen to you? I have not had any problems yet... were you replacing them with gaskets from Hedman?