Finally got the Weiand 9901-107 MPFI conversion manifold for Vortec-style intake pattern heads. Looks good on the Edelbrock ETec-200 heads. Got a ZZ4 cam with Comp Magnum 1.6 full RR's that are SA but am going to use the guideplate that came on the ehads so that feature will not be used.

Looks so good that I just HAVE to buy those GMPP 10185064 cast Al valve covers and probably the Summit (Borla-made) stainless headers to finish off the engine. The ZZ4 or HO330 valve covers just don't cut it.

Still plan on trying a 600 and then a 750 Edelbrock carb, getting dyno testing on both. Then TBI testing with ProJection control and 7747 control of 85pph Hlley injectors in a Holley ProJecion TB unit. Then, ProJection ECU control of the MPFI injectors, then 7747 control of the MPFI injectors, of course, dyno tested as well. I will decide on the final EFi config after all testing and driveability tests are done.

If you guys want, I could post some pix. You'll have to suffer with the Jeep thing, though.

I hope all are well. Take care.

 

do you mean that you're gonna try it on the dyno with a TBI system? :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

What TB? the Holley 670?

PLEASE post the results!!!!!

That would be a great honor. I've always questioned Holley's claim of "only good for 275 HP"!!! I think it'll be good for quite a bit more than that. It just may not let an engine of that caliber breath as well as they would like it to.

Let us know!!!!!

AJ

 

FB, been a while. Definatly post pics, that's always appreciated.
You said you've got SA rocker arms but are going to use the guide plates. I'm no expert but from every book I've read they say don't use more than 1 form of valve train alignment. Especially SA rocker arms and g,plates. I can quote a few sources but I won't bother if you can convince me your choice is the right method of alignment. They said that it's not needed and if something is more likely to go wrong. It's like having 2 sets of g.plates or something like that. BTW, have you ever worked with the plastic g.plates? They're made for unhardened pushrods and I've never heard of anybody using them.
Definatly post dyno charts, ALL of them. Oh yeah, I figured out the eprom thing. Your timing tables work great! A little too much advance at low map and high rpm. I got a few spark counts when I let go of the gas quick and ended up with like 10 counts. Only had to make one small adjustement and it was great.
The problem was the eprom. The main spark bias was set at 0 when it should have been at 20!!! Talk about a bad burn. The car was running like 4 advance in gear at like 800rpm . No wonder the car was a dog for a few of the eproms and good for the others. Fixed it all and adjusted the pumpshot and VE tables...AGAIN...and AGAIN. Finally got the BLM around 128 but I'm a little worried because this is in 20 degree weather. I'm hoping it works just as well in warmer climate.

 

this one? coooooooool :hail: Why not a Ram Jet?
I couldn't find the pic for the one you said on the holley website
I found this though http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin.../9901-107.html
sell the self aligning rockers and use old school ones. You'll make some $

 

Tas, do you own stock in holley? Every damn intake post you ever make is for a holley product. It's like you're their website salesman! I'm an edelbrock-man but I have no preference. I think edelbrock has a better design in most respects. Holley doesn't even have a vortec intake manifold yet, go figure. Maybe they just don't want my buiseness. Did you also notice that in HotRod ALL they use is edelbrock intakes. I have het to see them do anything with a holley intake. It's either the RPM air-gap or victor jr. No if ands or buts about it. Correction, that's just for wet flow intakes, dry-flow it's always different.
About the self-align rocker arms, aren't they dirt cheap? I doubt you could make any money selling them. I'd just rather not use guide plates if you don't have too! My friend had roller tip rocker arms but they weren't the self alignment. Even with the guideplates the tips of the rocker arms started to move about on the valve. What happened was a couple broken springs . Lesson learned, don't use those roller tip rocker arms unless self aligning!!! Too many horror stories with them.

 

No no no... I'll be brief. If you use self aligning rockers with guideplates and the guideplate/pushrod/rocker-arm alignment (ie, perfectly vertical so that the rocker roller tips are centered on the vale stem tips) is not correct, you will cause serious problems. ie, it took me about 30 minutes to loosen the guideplates on the etec-200 heads and move them appropriately to align the entire valvetrain to make sure the rocker's roller tip was mostly centered about the valve stem tip. Problems can arise from guideplates that have the wrong spacing (too wide or narrow) and/or heads that have valve spacing wrong (never). Only happens with cheap suff. Still, took me a little longer than usual. What CAn happen is that the rocker can be MADE to be misaligned (ie, too far to one side of the valve stem tip) and the self-aligning feature is worn/abused and problems arise, heat is generated. not gonna happen. If you don't understand what I mean and don't have the experieince or tools to fix this, then JP is right, don't try this at home.

yeah, that's my manifold. It looks good. Little expertise required to make the matched rail/hardware fit right, but not more than 30 minutes of careful tube work.

Got lots ta' do. Job changes and stuff going on, too. Vacation to Disney World probable as well. It'll be running in a week or three, I suppose. Have a nice weekend all.


EDIT: the self-aligning full roller-rocker Magnums were about $274 and the non-self aligners are about $259 or so. worth the extra money for me to use them in another congfig next year...

 

I like holley because they are the underdog. They seem to have more selection too since they bought weiand.

 

Well, looks like you guys are right. My engine builder came over to see what I was up to and said to lose the guideplates or lose the self-aligners.

FOR SALE: Comp Cams Magnum true/full Roller Rockers with poly locks, 1.6 ratio self-aligning, fit OEM centerbolt valve covers or regular perimeter-bolt valve covers (not HO/ZZ4 centerbolt valve covers!!!) installed to verify intereference but never used. $275 includes shipping. P/N = 1318-16.

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...561&prmenbr=76

 

Wow, that suprised me. I only remember that from a book I read then I thought about it and my friends 327 broke valve springs and it might have been because he had both guideplates AND self align roller tip rocker arms.
I would go with the self align rocker arms, why did you choose to use the guideplates?

 

Didn't surprise me :lala: They work against eachother since they're trying to do the same job. Each one overcorrects the other.

 

Any takers? Also have some $110+ one-piece hardened NEW pushrods that were installed, to go as well. $80 for those, $275 for the rockers/adjusters or $350 for all, shipping included.

Offer expires Friday at 12:01 am.

 

NOTES:

E-tec 200 heads have true rectanglar intake ports, not VORTEC/angled intake ports. Weiand MPFI manifold has Vortec style intake ports with plenty of removable port material removable (to make "true" rectangular) to match to th E-tec 200 heads. E-tec 200 intake port maching quality leaves a lot to be desired. The heads do look like good flowers, though, and the valves/springs/seal quality is top notch.

E-tec 170 heads have VORTEC style intake ports...

E-Tec heads have weird machining on the valve cover gasket surface to allow use of either valve cover. ie, bolt/stud receiver holes for periimter-style valve cover bolts are machined out as they enter the valvetrain area. Not a problem if using thick/AL cast valve covers. POS steel perimeter bolt covers may deform in this area. IMO, delbrock should not perfrm this machining and it should be left for the final consumer to do only if they are using center-bolt valve cover retention.

I kept the 1.6 ratio SA Pro Magnum roller rockers and removed the guidelates. Guideplates ("Edelbrock" stamped on them but made by ARP) well oiled and in a Ziplok bag for later use/for-sale.

 

T-14 hours to initial fire-up with 1405 600cfm Edlecrocker, HEI. Injectors/rails/regulator mounted, sitting pretty, waiting patiently.

 

cool dude. You have a private message coming your way

 

Sweet pix.

I'll get pix by this weekend (hope) and I'm trying to borrow a buddies camera that can take a movie of me starting the engine initially tomorrow. Always a fun time... Lots of adrenaline, as you all know... every time... I won't sleep well tonight.

I had to use the short Edelbrock Elite valve covers, plenty of room for the Pro Magnum roller rockers. The nice GMPP valve covers hit the truck accessory bracket for the alternator. Too tired to modify it. Maybe by Memorial Day. New Elite valve covers to be for sale, soon. Also, I need headers soon as well. the corvette "stainless" headers I have on right now are too restrictive for this combo (1.5-1.625 tube dia). Good for Jeep transplants, Tas. Real good. Always look the same, too.

EDIT: BTW, Edelbrock P/N=1405, 600cfm carb (manual choke) for sale soon. One of them, anyhow. Not the 1406.

One of several ZZ4 shortblocks, as well, the one in the Jeep will be for sale, soon. When they hit 40k, they go to a new home, only to replaced by a younger sibling. Mobil-1 except for 500mile initialization uses. Fram HP4 filter (20 micron) only, as well.

 

Runs like a banshee.

Carb is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY off for driving. Too lean. Idles with 18 inches, though, at 675-700 comfortably with (12+14) 26deg of spark, for now. Not bad for 200 intakers and a pretty big single plane...

Have some bracket and wiring issues to work out before I drive it a bit and tune the carb a little. Gonna raing tomorrow, I think, so driving is out of the question.

 

Anyone else have Comp's Pro Magnum Chromoly full roller rockers???

Are they loud/getting louder, or is it me??? or is something about to sheet the bed???

BTW, the spring preload in the newer 2nd generation GMPP roller lifters is rather high...

 

UPDATE:

Carb:

Too much tuning but got it running pretty well. Went to the local Dyno Shop Saturday, 11 foreign cars in line, about 3 hour wait. Went Sunday, 13 US/foreign in line, longer wait. Needless to say, no carb chassis dyno testing as I am already on ProJection operation. Car was running well, 36BTDC all in by 2800 works best. Gotta be close to 400hp if not over.


ProJection ECU and TBI unit:

WOW! So much low-end torque (yes, I know, single-plane with TBI actualy is good, I guess. I fi had more low-end, I could not use it anyway!) that I had to add some 2degree shims to my leaf-sprung rear axle to stop the spring-wrap induced driveshaft vibrations. Absolutely no way you can even moderately stab the pedal and not get wheelspin. This is one of the best running motors I have felt in my life, below 5000rpm. I mean real nice. Stupid nice. Scary nice. Above 5k, though, the Holley injectors and/or 2"TB unit were not enough. Lean on the AFR meter, so I'll assume it's the injectors for now. They are set at only 15psi so I may try 18psi-20psi. I tell you, that 2D ProJection controller works VERY well if you have the right combo and connect it and tune it properly. Amazing, honestly. Probably could use a vac-ref'd pressure regulator in it, though, as the IDLE is rather rich even at the lowest setting to keep the HIGH rpm not too lean.


Next: Waiting for custom MPFI injector harness. 7747 TB to done next. Still need a GOOD 2" Rochester OEM TB unit with working 90pph injectors, no play in the shaft, overall *** shape. Cannot find one. I may have to use the ProJection TB unit without IAC, as stated above (?). I think I'll be ok, though.

 

FB, have someone fab you a plate to go under the tb that you can add the IAC into the system. With a few measurments I'm sure it could be done and shouldn't cost to much either. Just a thought.

Steve

 

FB, my engine is the same way, GOBS of torque right off idle and it doesn't help that I've got a stock stall tcc. I have so many traction problems even with a light foot that I actually wish I had the Lo3 to drive around in the crappy weather.
I'd like to see the differences between a TPI setup and TBI on my engine or a similar 350 with the same cam and heads.
I've noticed a lot of guys say the TPI has more street grunt but I've gotta say...my car lacks nothing. I'm assuming it's the sheering action of the throttle bodies that's giving the super fine fuel atomization that a carb lacks at low rpm operation (depending on carb cfm rating and venturii design of course). I have a really good feeling that TBI is way underrated and I hope I can run just as fast if not faster than a similar f-body with the recommended 625cfm carb. It's amazing how you can actually use a systems "disadvantage" (the fuel being injected onto the throttle blades) to the cars overall advantage.\
So did you or didn't you get some runs in? What were the times and mph, 60', all that good stuff

 

get a killer torque arm for that bad boy :hail:

 

Send me $500 and I'll get one. Until then I'll just have to due with what I've got and replace the bushing at the tranny.
I want Spohn's t.arm with the driveshaft loop.
I guess you're right though, I need to get off the whole cam swap thing and think about how to put the power to the road.
Slicks, torque arm, and higher stall converter. Time to save up for parts again

 

Sorry. No runs, dyno testing. Nothing but SOTP.

I learned my lesson. Go to the chassis dyno mid-week...

When I get the ProJection running just right, I'll hit it this week. SLIGHT lean spot just above idle and rich idle. neither effect WOT operation but like to fix things right. Also, may rig an VAFPR to the Holley regulator (looks easy?, drill-out the adjusting screw with a small drill bit and add a hose nipple to the regulator bod y as it has 5-6 extra threads before the adjuster screw starts?) and need to increase the FP quite a bit.

Anyone know where the best place (price/service/svc/help/availability/reputation) to buy PROM burning equipment is??? Anyone want to sell/trade their PROM stuff??? I got carbs, much more.

 

Steve,

Just saw your post above on the IAC plate. Good idea. I am using a Holley plate now and may be able to build it into that.

Other option is getting a 90 deg swapped TPS switch as the IAC boss is cast into all of the ProJection TB units, just left rough finished. So, all machined mounting surfaces, IAC pintle seat and IAC mounting hole would have to be machined properly. How hard can that be? I may sell the proJection later, though, and/or use it on my 92 Blazer AND I am ready to move on...

I really need an OEM 670cfm 2" bore 90pph Rochester TB unit. Anyone swap one for an Edelbrock carb, 600cfm P/N 1405 that cmoes wiht a Mallory 1/8NPT 15psi screw-in Fuel pressure gage???? (Hint hint?)