ok, i just rebuilt my 305 motor and upgraded the cam.i set the timming gears so they are lined up with each other ( cam gear at 6 o'clock and the crank gear at 12 o'clock. now with the gears in this arrangment im actually at #6 piston tdc right? so if i rotate the crank 180 degrees i should be at #1 piston tdc right? ok, then i set my valve lash according to my manual( in the order it said). when i put my distributer back in it was pointing with the rotor straight forward between the #1 and the #8 terminals on the distributer...is that right? because i cannot get my car the startup at all. do i have to do anything else before i try to start up the damn thing? and when and if i do start it up and keep it running, do i have to disconnect the wires from the distributer to set inital timmimg? (im running the stock distributer and stock carb btw). any help here would be appreciated thanks.

 

Well, wrong! You should have rotated the crank 360*. That would put the crank & cam gears both at 12 0'clock and the #1 piston at TDC. The cam turns 1/2 the speed of the crank. Each cyl. fires every 720*.

Auggie

 

ok so where should the rotor be when i rotate the crank 360* ?
i only ask because i noticed when the #1 piston is at the top of the cylinder so is the *6 piston...sorry but im just trying to learn here, thanks for the help though i do appreciate it.

 

ok so if i line the dots up on the gears in that order like i said i will be at #6 tdc then i spin the crank 360* i should then be at #1 tdc ?

 

No, with the timing marks lined up on the gears you are on #1 TDC of the compression stroke, and #6 is at TDC of the exhaust stroke. When you turned the engine 1 revolution you put the #1 at TDC exhaust and #6 at TDC of compression.

Clear as mud?


~M~

 

ok i was just wondering 'cause my haynes manual says NOTE: with the gears in this config you will be at #6 tdc

 

well the reason i am having trouble was because when i set the gears in the 6/12 position i figuared i was #1 tdc on the compression stroke like ya said above but when i went to set my valve lash according to the manual i could not 'cause one of my lifters was not sitting flush like the rest meaning my lifter was not sitting flat on the lobe, so i figuared i was 360* off and then rotated the crank 360* but only to find that it brought me back to the same problem. but when i rotated 180* i found i could set the valve lash according to the manual so i figuared that must be right.

 

When I built my engine I had the timing marks (dots) on the gears pointing at each other and was on #1 TDC. I also verified this by the position of the lifters in their bores, both even and down all the way.
Also since you already have your valves adjusted, just take out the #1 spark plug and put your thumb over the hole and have someone slowly bump the engine over with the starter until you feel your thumb being blown off the hole. The timing mark on the balancer should now be coming up near the 0 on the tab. Very slowly bump the engine over until the timing mark is at 0. This is #1 TDC on compression. Now set the distributor in the hole pointing to #1. 'Viola, timed.

~M~

P.S. after this would be a good time to recheck valve adjustment.

 

i did just that but i still have one lifter sticking up , does it matter that its not a stock cam?

 

just want to get this right, so what your saying is when the dots are lined up and i turn the crank 360* the gears should be both pointing at 12 o'clock? why is it when i turn the crank 360* i end up with the dots lined up together again?

 

PFM?

I think we might be getting confused with our terminology. If you put the crank dot up at 12 o'clock, and put the gear on the cam at 6 o' clock, you should be on #1 TDC compression. Now, turn the engine over 1 full revolution and you will be 180 degrees out on engine timing, as in #6 is now at TDC compression and #1 is at TDC exhaust. Turn 1 more revolution and you will be back at #1 TDC compression and #6 on exhaust. Now the timing event has come full circle. When you say you turn the engine "180" I take this to mean 1 full revolution (180 out on timing).



~M~

 

Nope, won't matter. Keep turning the engine untill both lifters are down all the way and the #1 piston is up. Are you using the old balancer? If so it may have slipped a bit and is throwing the inital timing off a bit.

~M~

 

It doesn't have to be that difficult or mysterious. Align your cam ttiming marks like this:



If you've already done that, you're ahead of the game. Button everything up in the chain area. Rotate the engine until both valves are closed on the #1 cylinder, and the timing marks are at TDC on the balancer. If you suspect that your balancer outer ring has slipped, align the keyway in the crankshaft snout/balancer hub at the 45° mark, or pointing directly at the #1 cylinder. That is TDC on #1.

Verify that both valves are closed. Align the oil pump shaft, then install the distributor with the rotor pointing directly at the #1 cylinder. It's that easy. There is no magic, and I can't believe how many people have trouble grasping this concept. As long as the cam timing marks are perfectly aligned, you CANNOT screw it up. At worst, you may have to move the distributor 180° if you didn't follow instructions or didn't have both valves closed on #1.

 

FWIT,
When you have the crank dot at the 12 o'clock position and the cam dot at the 6 o'clock position, (commonly called "dot to dot") #6 cylinder is at top dead center (TDC) Compression stroke.
When you have the crank dot at 12 o'clock, and the cam dot at 12 o'clock ("straight up") #1 cylinder is at TDC compression.
You put your motor together dot to dot, you would have needed to turn the crank one full revolution to bring number one to TDC compression. Then you would have been able to install the distributor in the right spot and adjusted your rockers.

If you can find #1 TDC compression (timing mark at "0"), the factory manual says to adjust:
Exhaust valves 1, 3, 4, 8
Intake valves 1, 2, 5, 7

Turn motor 1 revolution to "0" this will bring #6 to TDC compression. Adjust:
Exhaust valves 2, 5, 6, 7
Intake valves 3, 4, 6, 8

You must adjust the valves while the lifter is on the base circle of the camshaft.

If you want to learn, get a year specific, factory service manual.
They are on ebay pretty regularly (20-30 bucks)
You can also get them from Helm publishing in Detroit, Mi.
Don't waste your money on Haynes.
Good luck

 

yes thank you all for all your help it was just my dumbass stupidity that wasnt thinking about the crank turning half the speed as the cam. i was actually turning the crank twice which brought me back to #6 tdc on the compression stroke. ok now that i have everything lined up correctly and my rotor NOW points to #1 position it should start up on the first try right? and if it does do i need to disconnect the four wire connector on the distributer to set base timming?

 

in your original post you said you had the stock distrubutor and carb, correct?
Then yes, dis-connect the four wire connector at the distributor and set the base timing according to the emissions label in the engine compartment. (the label will probably say to dis-connect the four wire plus and set the timing at a certain rpm).
If you don't have the label, then it is hard to say what to time it at. The specification could be anywhere from 0 to 6 degrees BTDC.
Once you get the motor running, set the idle at about 1800 rpm for 20 minutes to properly break in the cam shaft.
Keep an eye on the oil pressure and temperature.

 

Well camaro1982, I am not quite sure you have it yet because you said that the crank turns half the speed of the cam. Its just the other way around, the cam turns half the speed of the crank. Now don't feel bad about that and don't call yourself names. Everyone on this board has gone through the same learning process especially if your self taught. Good Luck !!

Auggie

 

im sorry i meant that the other way around...what i was actually looking at was the cam gear turning 360* when i was supposed to be looking for the crank to turn 360*( been having a blond week i guess, lol ) anyways all is said and done and the engine started up on the first crank( thank ***! ) now all i have to do is set the timming with a light and i should be all set. one problem is i dont have the VECI sticker on my hood or on the car for that fact so i dont know what to set the timming to so far. now in the manual i am reading it says not to disconnect the four wires connector at the distributer but to disconnect the est (tan wire with black stripe ) located on passenger side of vehicle, but i dont have one of those connectors on the harness so im a little confused (big suprise there huh?) i really hate those hanes manuals. should have bought a chiltons one instead.

 

anyways if i disconnect the four wire connector at the distributer and set the timming...wont the computer reset the timming when it is plugged back in and the car is restarted?

 

Well, you never said what year your car is but your handle is camaro1982 ? I have a 1984 Z28 and I have to disconnect the four wire connector coming from the dist. to set the ign. timing. A real bitch to get at. When you disconnect that connector the eng. will slow down so you may have to set the eng. idle up a bit. The spec for my 84 is 6* BTDC. Well if your initial timing spec. with the four wire connector disconnected is 6* and you set the timing to o* when you plug the wires back in your timing curve will be 6* retarted for the whole ign. timing curve.

Auggie

 

yes i have an '82 camaro with a blueracer cranecam in it with a lift of .440 with 105/115 lobe seperation its says its rated for stock idle and good low end torque and pulling power. and the rest of the engine is pretty much all stock(except performer intake) as this is my first engine rebuild and i did not want to waste a alot of money with a bigger motor and take a chance of really screwing it up so i decided to just go with what i had. so what about if i set the timming with the wire disconnected at 0*btdc and plug the connector back in to see what the computer set's the curve from there? know what i mean?

 

Well, yes I do but why don't you call someone (chev dealer ect,ect.) to get the correct timing spec. for your eng. ? Does anyone on this board have the correct timing spec. for a 1982 chev 305 eng.?? If you run the timing in the retarted pos. the eng. might run hotter then it should. Not good for a new rebuild. You know I checked my Wolverine Blue Racer computer program and heres the closest I could come to the spec's you gave me.

Cam Part# WG-1137

Adv. Int/Exh dur. = 280*/280*

Lobe Lift = .295" W/1.5 rockers = .443" Int/Exh

Int lobe centerline = 105*

Exh lobe centerline = 115*

Lobe Spread = 110*

Cam Advance = 5*

Valve Events

I/O =35*
I/C = 65*

E/O = 75*
E/C = 25*

Overlap = 60*

If you need the .050" numbers let me know. By the way you made a great choice by using this cam in your 305.

Auggie

 

Camaro1982,

Presuming this is your '82 we're discussing, and it has a carburetor, disconnect and plug the vacuum line to the advance unit on the distributor, and disconnect the four-wire flat connector at the distributor.

NOTE:DO NOT disconnect the four-wire connector at the distributor to set the timing if you have a TBI engine. There is a separate EST bypass connector on these applications.

Adjust the distributor as necessary and tighten/reconnect everything. Starting at the factory spec or only a couple of degrees advanced is probably a good idea, and you can adjust as necessary after driving to get the feel of the setting.

 

I have a 305 and my label says dis-connect the 4 wire connector and set base timing at 6* at 700 rpm.
If you have an automatic, you will need to have the car in drive(have someone step on the brake or set the parking brake if it works).
If it is a stick, set the timing in nuetral.

 

Vader,
82 305's don't have a vacuum canister on the distributor.

 

ok sounds great but maybe someone can give a newbie here a break and give a quick run thru on exactly what i should do to set timming at 6* btdc? so i should start the engine and set timming while in gear? what if i set it in park? will that not give me the correct reading? and how do i adjust the idle speed? is it the adustment screw on the throttle linkage side of carb?

 

I mis-spoke in the earlier reply.
Set the timing in park, then set the curb idle speed in drive.
I would say to set the timing at 6* BTDC. (once the timing is set, shut off the motor and re-connect the 4 wire connector)
Then, try to set the curb idle at around 500-700 rpm in drive. You may be able to set the curb idle lower or you might have to set it higher.
Just set it so the idle is relativly smooth in gear. (not stalling and not having to stand on the brake to keep it from taking off at idle)
You may want to get a Chilton's from the library and see if they have any timing specs listed. I think they have timing tables.
Good luck

 

thanks alot i appreciate any help i can get. now to set the idle, is it the adustment screw on the throttle linkage side of carb? (im running the stock q-jet)

 

ok, i just called my local dealership and they actually could not tell me what the correct ignition timming for an '82 camaro 305 4bbl as there books are all on computer and they dont go back that far(if they are all on computer, why not store all that info? huh?) so anyways they told me to call a local auto parts store like autozone so i did and they looked up and said to time it at 6* btdc in drive at 500 rpm's.....does this sound right to you guys?

 

Well, it sure does.

Auggie

 

start with 6 and then try advancing it even more, i'm running 16 and it's got a lot more power there than with 6

 

Thanks. I didn't know that, since I don't have one to look at. I was thinking that the elimination of the vacuum advance was probably the reason for the four-wire connector (EST) but wasn't sure. If it isn't there, disconnecting it should be easy.

Even the late '70s GMs with EST had no vacuum advance/retard mechanism on the distrtibutor, but did have the four wire (round one at that time) connector. The '77 Olds Toronado with the early crank-triggered timing and EST was the first on I recall seeing.

 

thanks so much for all the help guys. i finally got the timming set at 6* btdc while i had someone hold it in gear, but yeah it sure doesnt have a whole lot of power like i expect it to. now when you say i should advance the timming a little do you mean adjust the base timming like i did to put it at 6* initially? or should i just turn the distributerwhile im in park without disconnecting the four wire connector? wont it make my engine run hotter if advanced? damn my engine runs hot as it is between 200 - 250* ouch!

 

to advance it more use the same procedure you used to set it to 6. they say to advance it til you hear knock then back off two degrees to get the most advance. you may not want this much though, you can just advance it two degrees at a time and drive the car and see how it differs

 

now to advance i turn clockwise right?

 

Well, I don't think so. First of all I think that you should leave the timing at 6* for now until your eng. has time to break in. Because the rings haven't seated yet your cyl. pressure is low and you may be able to put 10 or 12* of inital timing (four wire disconnected) into the eng. and get away with it, but when the rings seat and the eng. starts to build cyl. pressure you may start to here deto (pinging) which will be handled buy your ESC computer by retarding the timing. But this will hurt performance. Thats why eng's with high mileage can stand lots of timing. "Patience Grasshopper". Oh, back to your question. If your sitting in the drivers seat your eng. when it is running will be turning counter-clockwise so your dist. will be rotating clockwise which means you will have to turn the dist. against rotation (counter-clockwise) to adv. the timing. At least I think so?

Auggie

 

sounds like good advice there auggie...so i'll take it. but what do you think about my loss of power? or so it seems. i drove down the block and it seems even when i put it to the floor it seem to want to die and then it did. maybe turn my idle back up? what would be the best idle rpm when in park? and what should it be when in gear?

 

Auggie,
If i'm not mistaken, carbed 305's didn't have the ESC and knock sensor in 1982
I believe that was only used on the fuel injected engines.
My 82 factory manual just says "some engines" are equiped with the ESC.
The 82 carbed 305's that I have seen haven't had the ESC.
Does yours have the ESC?

 

i dont believe i have one no.

 

Well, Jeff you know I think your right. My 84 Z28 does have the ESC. Camaro1982 I think an idle speed of 750rpm in (N) would get you an idle speed of around 600rpm in (D). Well on the dying problem four things come to mind. (1) Carb accelerator pump. (2) Carb sec. throttle plate lock out (cold eng. only). (3) Carb sec. air valve spring tension adj. (4) Plug wires.

Auggie