my freon is low so i want to go ahead and change it over can i go ahead and open the low end and let all the freon out and put in the 134 or do i have to get someone to suck it all out or is there a different easier way 2 do it thank u (i have the 134 with the oil in the can already)(they have 12oz of refrigerent and 3oz of oil in each can)

 

you should take it to a shop and have them evacuate the system first. I am not sure what would happen if you were to add the 134a without doing so first.

 

Not a good idea just to add the new freon without evacuating the old r12. I tried this on my old 91 explorer and it caused my compressor to try to lock up and shoot sparks everywere.

 

not a good idea. dont ever change from the r12 to r 134 by just changing the fluid. i am a licence mech in air cond. the compressor is not the same the pump is not the same. so basically u have to change the whole system. u can get retro fit system they cost about 350-400k plus install. i just did one on a 92 toyota and it cost 750 (import). the r12 is not aloud to be sold anymore and it is very expensive to get. a bottle goes for about 150. if u really want to get a/c be ready to spend big buck. also not a good idea to just put the can and oil. u need a machince to do it properly to much and ull blow ur seal right out of the compressor.
new a/c with r134a 1k
roll the window down free

 

thats a lot for a/c... is it possible to get the compressor and pump out of a newer GM vehicle?

 

thats bull we just did the conversion on my parents 1987 ford conversion van, you have to get a pump and hook that on leave it on for about an hour to an hour and a half. Then buy an A/c retrofit kit from walmart 28.99 it comes with new fittings, and the new hose, and three cans of refrigerant 134a, as far as not being able to purchase the old r12 anymore that bull to, you just have to have a license to do it, becase the mechanic for my dads work was getting it for us for $8 a can before we converted to 134a now the A/c blows 40-44 all day long! if you have any other questions feel free to ask. But the most important thing is to get the system pumped out, our local auto zone loans the pumps out all you have to do is put down a deposit then you get it back when you take the pump back.

 

sorry dude im from canada and the laws are a bit different here
we cant buy retrofit from walmart or anything like that.
as for r12 u need the special blue card to get it and install it
any newer style pump and compresor from the same compagny should fit into it. i wish we could just get the can all we have is the bbq tank.

 

R-12 is still legal and available, but in limited quantities here in the States.

I would recommend taking it to a shop and having them recover what is left of the R-12 charge, you can do what you want, but be carefull because R-12 will freeze skin on contact.

Get a Year Specific Factory Service manual, they are on ebay pretty regularly, or go to the Helms website and order a manual.

Retro-fitting to R-134a is pretty straight forward.

If your compressor and other components aren't leaking (dirty oily deposits), it is a matter of flushing the system, replacing the o-rings (for peace of mind) and orifice tube. Evacuating then re-charging the system.

Somebody has a tech article posted in the tech articles section of thirdgen.org. It is pretty accurate.

If you do the repairs yourself, then take it to a service shop for evacuating and charging, it will save you a butt-load of cash.

 

I live in Calgary (just 180 miles south of Edmonton, for those who don't know) and I had my system retrofitted last summer. It cost less than $400 Canadian.

Why is it now $1000 in Edmonton?

 

Talk to us in a year. Muffler is correct, listen to the man. 134 systems are mechanically more robust than 12 systems because of the difference in boiling points of the refrigerants and the differences in pressures in the two systems. After speaking with reps from the big 3 no expert recommends the cheap way. It may blow cold air now, wait a while and see how long the compressor lasts. For systems needing only a top off it is still cheaper to fill with 12 than do a proper conversion. If you have to convert because of mechanical problems or seals etc then it is probably time to do a retrofit but it ain't cheap. Depends on how long you are going to keep her and how much you need AC. Also talk to dealer tech's and see how many problems they have with systems DESIGNED for 134. I am told by many even the seals designed for it are not lasting as long as the old 12's.

 

To do it "right", you should also replace the receiver/drier and all hose fitting o-rings. The evaporator, condenser, and hoses should be flushed. A different expansion tube is supposed to make it more efficient (I didn't do that, though). Evacuation before charging is a must.

Do a search on "R134a" on this forum. A lot of good info about conversion is contained in past posts.

 

i guess i misquoted myself i meant to say that once the r12 is taking out the retrofit is install the system purged and refilled it should cost about 1k (can) the right way there is the cheaper way about 400-500(can) but u will need to rechearge every year or so

 

Hmm, if you are correct, a person can spend $25 a year to top up your AC or spend an additional $600 for the pleasure of PERHAPS not having to drop in a can or two of coolant?

I hope your shop points this economic catastrophe out to people before they spring for the deluxe $1000 AC job!

Is it any wonder that people are suspicious of mechanics???

 

hey man im in the forces we dont pay for the stuff and we dont charge for it. personally if i did it on my car 88 camaro i would do the 400 job who in there right mind would pay 1k for it.
if u have to do it pay the 400 then get it refill every year or so 25 bucks like u said. but some people will pay the 1k for it.

 

ok i stand corrected, I talked with one of the mechanics at the shop i work at (im a tire tech, i change tires ) He said that for a good conversion that you have to have the system evacuated, then you have to buy a "new" dryer, and condesor, then drain the oil from the compressor, and then your done. Oh ya he also said that if your ac system has an orifice tube then you have to change that too. The great thing is, that by working at the shop, i can get it done for under 200 :hail:

 

If any of you have a license and buy R-12 you will probably no longer be able to get it from Pepboys anymore. Our store stopped selling it to individuals. Period. It is now only for our service department use and our APD (Auto Parts Delivery) contacts. Kinda sucks. I think it's something like $34.99 for an 8 oz. can and $1000 for a 30lb. cylinder.

As far as using 134a, is there any complete system that we can use from a newer vehicle? If I could pull the compressor, accumulator/drier, etc. out of a 2000 model vehicle and fabricate all my own brackets and get hoses made, would it work? I'm sure it would but would probably be a pain to do.

 

GM addresses these issues in bulletin #331226. Current position is that as long as 12 is available they will charge those systems with 12. For retrofit they recommend this procedure for Harrison systems. Replacement of the accumulator/drier if it more than 5 years old. This will have the dessicant which is 12-134 compatible. All O rings supplied by SPO since 1993 are 12-134 compatible. Replacement hoses also after 93 are nylon barrier type to prevent HFC migration through the walls of the hose. If you opt not to replace hoses figure on losing 3-6oz./year. Removal of all old mineral oil is NOT required, they have found there is no real chemical incompatibility between PAG and mineral. The mineral tends to collect in the accumulator and is relatively benign. Orifice replacement is recommended but not required. Lastly all 12 residual levels must be below 2%, this in accordance with SAE specification J-1661. Hope this helps somewhat.