do you guys all think that cyl number and displacement is the key to power... i always see you only have a 6 cyl, or they are just 4 bangers.. or well it was against a v-8...

i have a 1.6 sohc 4cyl... it don't get too much smaller than that... and i know that the setup im in the process of puttign together has netted low 13's sec passes. well just curious?? not talking ****..

 

Well also remember, we're making our power from old tech. And no, Not all of us think that v8 = ***!!!!

 

i never rip on the new 4 bangers, alot of them can beat us (3rd gens)

the people that drive 4cyl sport compacts that put just as much love/attention/money under the hood rather than on apperance can whoop some serious ***. with less than 1000-1500 you can get a stock 4cyl sport compact into the low 15s high 14's thas pretty damn good in my opinion.

i was actually looking at them for a while, untill i drove a third gen and fell in love of course

 

the reason why your car can go fast with a 4 cylinder, is beacuse your car is the size of a go-cart

 

It is all about power to weight ratio.

 

I believe the key to power is big displacement and forced induction. The key to speed is power / weight ratio. Combine the two and you have the key to winning street races

 

Yup, it's all about power to weight ratio...

Take that motor that will push one of those 2100 lb mini grocery carts to 13 sec and put it in a 3400 lb car, I'd be surprised if it could break 17 sec. Or, take a V8 that will put one of these cars at the 12 sec mark and stick it in some little econobox and watch that run 10 sec.

Since we are usually talking about one of these specific cars on this BBS (Camaro & Firebird) and they all weigh a similar amount, and there are only certain engines available from their maker, and they are easy to characterize by the # of cyls, that's why we refer to them that way.

Like the other post said, if you do functional type things to those 4-cyl tiny imports instead of loading them down with those ridiculous "appearance" plastic warts, they can be made pretty quick. But you don't see too much of that... I can recall one particular time being in a line of traffic that was stuck going slow behind a couple of the usual "motorsports" Hondas that were "racing", they were so slow that they were blocking the Camrys and SUVs behind them... all they were doing was winding their motors up as far as they would go in 1st gear and holding them there, about the fastest they could go while "racing" was maybe 30 mph... it really showed how laughable the import "performance" scene can be.

 

Some of these guys can be really silly on the way they "soup" up their cars. .. for instance i have a friend who has a honda civic. he just got a K%N filter and thinks it adds 15 HP. I tried to explain that in a engine like his it will only add about 2 HP and hes cancells that out because he just added 70lbs of wing and body kit,which i also try to explain that he will probably never get to the speeds that the wing is actually functional. Then he drops the car with just springs and has a nasty neg. camber and thinks it handles better, once again i try to explain that with that horrible stance that under hard corners he just made the car handle worse....after looking at the car from the back for a few minutes....i think he understood me on that one

 

oh ok.. it was just an out of curiousity question... i mean i just drove my friends late ninetys z28, and also his late 80's z28 and i fell in love with the late 80's one.. it is modded and is only like a low 14 sec car.. but it was the torque and power that over whelmed me... great feeling car...

i love my honda and am determined to make it fast.. i have very little in the way of cosmetic mods...and it will probably forever stay that way...

thanks for not starting a big arguing match.. since the question was in fact just out of curiousity... when i go 13 something that will be impressive to me... 1.6l that is nuts.. lol **such a HUGE power plant i have to deal with... LOL**

 

Glad to see that this post was kept from turning into a flame war...

 

to get into the 13's yoru most surely gonna have to go with forced induction, or build a majorly kick *** n/a motor.
and remember, the key to speed with small enignes (and the cheapest) is weight redux.

 

im not tryin to flame or anything but last night at the track, there was 2 hondas that were trailered in, one was a newer prelude and the other an early 90s civic hatchback, i was thinking i might actually see some fast hondas but i almost fell over laughing when the prelude ran a 14.3 and the civic ran a 15.1, yes they are faster than my car at the moment, but just the fact they were trailered to the track was sad.

 

The key to power is getting as much oxygen and fuel in, burned, and the exhaust out as fast a possible. Displacement and more cylinders is just one way to do that. Fuel is somewhat easy to get into the engine, the air is the trick. Increased displacement will bring more air in and push more exhaust out. Turbo/supercharger forces more air in and exhaust out. Nitrous Oxide adds lots of oxygen to the mix. Add the proper amount of fuel to any or all of the above oxygen adders above and you make additional power.

 

going fast isnt all about how much power you make. The shape of your torque cure and the duration of the power output through the shifts has alot to do with it. Take a newer small displacement (<4l) 350 hp v8 which makes its power from, say 5400 rpm to 5800 rpm vs. one of our 240 some odd HP v8s, which makes its power form about 4000 to about 5000RPm and id be willing to bet youd probably get similar performance out of both because the ol' sbc v8 has a much broader torque and HP curve which alows the sbc to make power more consistantly throught the gears. Tuning for a broader hp band, instead of the little peak that small 4 cyl have, that sacrifices a few ponies will actually make your car faster. The gear ratios are also important. I dont know if they make custom trannies for yout honda but having a close ratio transmission that keeps the engine in its peak power band will do wonders for your car because you wont be spending as much time in the "dead zone" of your HP curve. And, of coarse, lets not forget cams and forced induction. Of coarse with cams comes drivability problems depending on how eccentric the cam is.

 

that is sad since i will be able to beat the faster of the two in about a week and my car is daily driven.... 14/15 sec cars are a joke... i am as said hoping for 13's very soon.. there are a few things im gonna need to do my build but everything is falling into place very well..

i will keep you posted as long as you guys pretend to care

 

what kind of stuff are you putting on that 1.6, out of curiosity?

 

fully built.. tep one is top end.. should be very soon.. springs retainers and a cam.. then teh bottom ened build begins.. so i can hold more nitrous.. and probably a stand alone computer in teh middle sometime to control it all

 

How big of a shot are you going to run?

 

LOL. I'll never forget the day I let you drive my 14-second IROC. You punched it coming out onto the street and over-steered (dont mess with the 'hi-po' steering!) and went into the other lane. Then when you punched it from a stop you banged on the steering wheel and went "DAMN THIS CAR IS SO RUGID!! I LOVE IT!" Just wait until its done it'll make "my" '99 Z28 look like its standing still

 

i hate the 99

it sucks.. the other one is where its at

 

What are the specs of cam are you leaning towards, just out of curiosity?

 

Don't forget that displacement > # of cylinders. Take a 6 liter v12 mercedes vs an 8 liter v10 viper. No competition there. I think nissan makes something like a 3.8 liter v8 just for the sake of saying they have "v8 power," which is bull****. It only makes like 180 horsepower. The same size v6 would be better,

 

to be honest im not sure, i do not know enough about it to give you like lift and duration numbers... ( a friend is helpign with the internals because i just don't know enough about it..) when he is on next i will get the specs to satify the curiousity...
i just got the springs and retainers.. waiting on the cam.. then i will probably want to get a piggy back ecu..
then the bottom end and lots of crossed fingers.. lol

 

id be careful with cam selection. Four cyl. engines are especially sensitive to what kind of cam(s) you put in it because of their inherent lack of low end torque. Too eccentric of a cam and you will murder your low end of the power band and kill your drivability. I guess if you where to swap teh stock cam(s) out when you go to the track for the aftermarket you could get by like that. Another thing im weary of is the fact that the block is aluminum and the mains probably arned that strong. Also, iv heard of some bending the crankshaft and snapping the rods in a few of those engines when they pushed it past 230 HP with forced induction. Tune it right and youll probably be ok.