Im interested in opinions on how to build a 301 non turbo motor to have more performance. I have a 1980 Trans Am.

This 301 leaves alot to be desired, although Im not looking for a ground pounding race car I want to know what suggestions you all might have in regards to the rebuild. I have considered replacing the motor with a 400 or 403 but it opens up a whole new set of problems, IE.. Metric 3 Speed Auto tranny, all of this is going to be to expensive to replace since I dont have cores for the motor or for the tranny to upgrade, so Im going to stick with what is here and try to get the most out of it.

Im not trying to make this a police catching noisy rumbler, I just want it to sound good, I just added true 2.5 inch exhaust with Flowmaster mufflers and all new cats. Id like to be able to light the tires up from a stand still. I have no interest in winning 1/4 mile races, this car is going to be fully restored to stock except for the motor etc... and Id like to get some more ponies out of this thing.

Anyone have any suggestions on this?

 

it doesnt look like it needs restored.

As for modifing the 301...is that a pontiac version of a chevy 302?? Ive heard you can make good power with a 302 if you make them rev high...thats all I really know...

Good luck. and Ive never been a fan of 2nd gens but thats a nice car. Ive never seen a second gen in that kinda shape.

 

Thanks! However since its white the pictures dont show the flaws as easily, the body is straight but the paint is flawed in spots and the interior is original so its definitely in need of attention. Most of the restoration is mechanical.

I know this was for 3rd generation cars but as active as these boards are, I know theres got to be some gearheads that know exactly what I should do so I put it here.

 

Hey if you want to get it to do a burnout just do like the producers did in Smokey and the Bandit II. They had to put soapy water on the tires anytime they wanted a burn out scene.

I wish I knew more about that motor. What is the bore and stroke compared to the 400. If your are rebuilding the motor then obviously flat top pistons would be good to boost compression and a decent cam would get you decent results. Probably even enough to do a burn out.

 

If I were you, I'd pull the 301 and replace with a 400 or a 455. I know you said you weren't looking for a ground pounder, but those 301's are pathetic. They do have a nice bore-stroke ratio going on, but the heads are awful. IIRC they use one port going to two cylinders (don't quote me on that). Anyway, the heads are awful and thats going to limit your ouput severly. I don't think those things had the best bottom ends either, heard of people having problems with the crank and rods. As for the tranny, it shouldn't be too hard to pick up a TH-350 for that thing.

 

ever occur to you that the tranny you already have in there will bolt up to any buick/olds/pontiac motor? i don't have a whole lot of experience with the 301. my uncle had a 79 with a 4-speed and it would roast the tires through all of 1st and 2nd gear. i dunno what mods he had done to it though. i would do a basic rebuild with an overbore using flat top pistons and step up the cam. an aluminum intake and some headers would help too. plus you can do all the basic port work and bowl blending on those head if the time and money is feasable. all the basic stuff that applies to our sbc 3rd gens will apply to the poncho powered 2nd gens. hope this helps. i would definately keep it poncho powered. i am a pontiac fan and even if i had a 301 powered car i would NEVER replace it with anything other than maybe a bigger poncho powerhouse like a 400 or 455.

Rich

 

watch how much you screw around with it....the 301 is a ticking time bomb. supre thin main webs, those crappy two port heads, a speed bump wiol blow the bottom end outa the block. if you looking for a few ponies, do the exhaust/intake flow jobs. dont stress the engine out too much

 

I appreciate everyones replys keep them coming! The problem I have is Ive been told if I switch to another motor this crappy metric 3 speed auto will make the engine sound like its going to blow up, it sounds like that now with the 301 at higher speeds. I thought about switching to a R7 Tranny but without a core I can add about 400 to the price of the change, Ive also been told it might also require me to change the rear end out. To be honest spending 10,000 on this is not going to go well with my wife, nor do I think I want to spend so much on this car.

Im sure the torque converter needs to be replaced in this car as I see oil coming out from that area, when I punch it it makes all the sounds of going onto passing gear but doesnt speed up at all, actually pretty embarrasing so I try to not punch it to make that scary sound.

My problem is not having a shop I trust to take this to to get my monies worth out of the build up. Shop guys eyes light up when I tell them what Im wanting to accomplish and I can see them trying to make all there payroll out of me!

 

By metric 3 speed I am assuming you are referring to the 200C? if so it is a POS, whatever you do enginewise you would be better off by picking up a TH350 for it, you can pick them up as new or remans for 600 or 700 bucks, they run good and are tough. I don't remember if they were built to bolt up to the B/O/P block, but I do know that they make an adapter plate that makes one with an SBC pattern a direct bolt up. You shouldn't have to change the rear, at worst you might have to get a different length driveshaft.

 

you might try looking for a rust bucket car with a 400 or 455 and 350 trans for cheap take the driveline and sell the shell to a junkyard. I'm afraid what people say about the 301 is true, it's junk.

 

the best mod you could make to the motor would be to drop it in the nearest lake you can find...

so, i am gonna support the other guys that suggest a pontiac 400 or 455 instead, but if that is not an option, at least get a better tranny, again a TH350 would suit the bill.

anyway, cam, headers, intake would help the 301 in the power department, but i would throw to much cash at this unit. definetly dont spend cash on the internals, other than a cam, its just not worth it. you wont see enough power gains for the cash you spent. also as the others have said these things are notorious for breaking bottom ends.

by the way, i think you car looks great. it really wants a big 455 in there. anyway, i love 2nd gens and i really like the white and baby blue on that car

oh yeah..make that shaker hood functional, if it isnt already

 

do you have any more pics of the car that you could post?

 

The 301 is going to have a BOP bolt pattern for transmission mounting. As long as you stay with a mild 400 or 455 BOP engine you will be fine. The 301 is a very bad engine. The block is weak everywhere. The only good thing the 301 can be used for is a trot-line anchor, in the nearest lake of your choice.
As long as you keep to your plans of a mild motor, the tranny should be fine. You might also change the rear gears to a higher(numerically lower) ratio, since the 301's had pretty low gears to make up for the lack of power and overall s@#ttyness.
The 455 would rule and it should fit no problem.:rockon:

 

Also just have that tranny rebuilt. It should not cost too much to have a reputable shop build it for moderate performance.
Hope this helps.

 

just had another thought...had to put it down before it got lonely and died

You could also get a 307 Buick out of a buttload of late 70s and early 80s buick & pontiac sleds (lesabre/parsienes) they are pretty tough and can be modded just about anyway a SBC can. A good rebuild, mild cam upgrade, better intake and exhaust, get a quadrajet and rebuid it right, should generate a decent amount of power, not a race winner, but not gutless

 

FInd out what it is first, if its the 200C by the time you pay the shop for a rebuild, if they'll even do one on it, you could have bought and installed a TH350 and gotten a much better, smoother tranny that can handle more power, the 200C is a slushbox. If its something else it might well be worth a good rebuild.

 

Well the car is worth more original so if it were mine Id just rebuild the engine as best possible to hide any AM modifications and swap the rear end out for a better ratio. Stuff that cant be seen but felt.

Now if you did want to mod the car to be known and felt Id start looking for a beater in the classified adds with all the parts you need to make a stock type car. Ive seen 2nd gen TA's with 400's in them going for $800-1500.

 

The pontiac 301 is a DOG .... drop it and and go with a big block poncho, like a 400 or 455... I have a whole article from hpp about the 301 if i can find it ill scan it for you.... but believe me there is no aftermarket for the 301 really......just drop in a 455 and dont look back :lala:

 

Out of respect for the admins of this board and for my ease of use I have stuck to the Southwest part of the board. I greatly appreciate all of your help regarding this. If you would like to continue please Follow This Link

New photos of the beginning of the rebirth of a Pontiac Firebird Trans Am! I heard you all and the 301 is history, time for a 400!

 

Your tranny should be 3-Auto MC THM250 301 non-turbo only

This info I got off http://www.iwaynet.net/~gl&lisk/1980ta.html

Check it out.

And the 301 is the same bore stroke as the chevy and ford 302

4" bore x 3" stroke.

Everything else on it I have no clue.

 

no offense, but the best suggestion for a 301 is for use as a boat anchor since it is cast iron or a planter. the 265 and 301 is the short deck (sometimes referred to as small block) version of the pontiac v8's and for the most part almost no performance parts will fit it. the 4 x 3 inch bore and stroke has no advantage at all in this case. trust me, anyone that has built up a 301 has regretted it even with a turbo.

 

btw for the guy saying use a 307 buick. there is no 307 buick, the 307 was olds and also not a performance item.

 

Correct, as far as I know Buick made a 300 and a 340, and then a 350.