Can I snag roller lifter parts off of a used engine, or are lifters something you'd want to buy new???

My block is machined for rollers, but I currently have flat tappets.

Ben T.

 

You don't "machine" a block for roller lifters. It isn't necessary.

If you have a pre-roller (86-back) block, you use the system that all the rest of us have been using for all these decades that have gone by before the factory "developed" their thing. If you have a 87-up block, then you have the choice of either using our old familiar proven system, or going with teh factory Frankenstein.

What block do you have?

 

10105123.

late model block with one-piece rear main seal.

 

Is it outfitted for the factory roller setup?

 

It's the block used on the zz4 and the 330hp/350 crate engine. It has provisions for the roller lifters, but it doesn't have them. I'm just wondering if there would be a cheaper way to get the setup I want without having to buy all of the parts brand new.

Ben T.

 

OK...

Roller lifters aren't like flats, where they match themselves to the cam. So as long as they aren't destroyed somehow, they're re-usable.

If your block has all the right stuff, you can just get teh factory setup used from somewhere, and you'll be OK.

 

You should be able to use junkyard lifters. They rarely go bad. In fact, I am the only person I know that has bad ones.

Summit has them for $160/set.

 

You can skip telling me gaskets and that type stuff but...


Besides the $160 set of lifters do I need anything else??? I'm guessing the lifters will have the bar that ties a pair together as for them to not rotate. Does that "bar" require any kind of special hardware to like bolt it down or anything...

Thanks,
Ben T.

 

I don't know about the aftermarket setup, but the factory setup requires a few other pieces. 1 is a piece that goes over both lifters for a cylinder that uses the flats on the lifters to keep them straight, 2. is a big "spider" device that hold the previously mentioned pieces down. It goes to all 8 of them.

Any way you go, I'm sure you're gonna need shorter pushrods. I got all my lifters and holders used from a vortec truck engine, and I got a set of pushrods from www.sdpc2000.com as take-off pieces.

 

and you'll need the retaining plate and 2 bolts for the front of the engien, new timing gear set and chain on top off everything else you've been told.

 

Oops! I somehow forgot about those! Maybe it's because I haven't bolted them on mine yet, they're still in a box! LOL

 

sounds like a good time to do a cam swap if you need one.
for reference, my factory setup:

 

2

 

k, so how do i retrofit a block to use roller lifters/cam if it doesn't have the oe provisions? i'd really like to avoid changing timing sets and getting a thrust plate. can i get by with some other setup?

 

Yes.

You can run the same roller setup that all the rest of us had been running for decades before the factory came up with that bizarre stupidity in those pics... now referred to as a "retrofit" roller. No machine work whatsoever required to anything at all. Bolt-in. Not cheap, but a direct bolt-in to an early block.

 

Ok, don't be offended, but you're making this more difficult than it is!

Since your block is already machined for the factory roller setup, all you need to do is put in a new cam, buy some lifters and the spider and holders (used ones are usually fine) and the thrust plate. Once you have it apart to change the cam (which you HAVE to do if you go with rollers) you shoul dchange the timing chain anyway, so you can just get a newer type replacement chain. It is a direct bolt in if you have what you say you have. That crate motor should be ready for it!

 

i dont think he has to switch cams. as opposed to flat tappet cams, roller cams usually have a steeper lobe which can also be asymmetrical. using tappet lifters with a roller cam will rip it up but not the other way around. unless there's something i'm missing then he can use a tappet cam with roller lifters, like maybe the front of the cam needs to have a groove machined for the retainer plate to go over?

 

No, you cannot use a flat-tappet cam with roller tappets. Flat-tappet lifters aren't "flat", they're actually slightly convex; and the cam has a slight angle ground on the lobe, that causes the lifter & cam to touch only at the front (of the engine) part of the lobe, and the outer edge of the lifter. If you put a roller lifter on that, it will only touch the cam at the very front edge, and will immediately destroy both the cam and the lifter.

The original, common-sense design for roller lifters uses link bars to keep the lifters from spinning and a thrust button in the front of the cam to keep it from walking out the front (the inclined surface of a flat-tappet cam accomplishes that, so no retention is necessary with one of those). But that was too simple for the factory I guess, so they invented all that other stupid crap that forced them to change the block casting and everything else. Talk about shooting themselves in the shorts, especially on the cost side. Their nightmare Rube Goldberg uses that piece of sheet metal and those little ring things and specially cast blocks, and the nose of the cam is different, and the place on the block where the timing gear sits against it is different.

So, if you have a factory roller block, it's probably cheaper to get all that goofy stuff off of a junk motor. Roller lifters don't go bad much, and are usually re-usable. If your block is of the original design, then you can't use any of that, and you'll need to get the "retrofit" style of stuff, which is hard to find just laying around used.

Inspect your block carefully and see what you've got, and come back and tell us, we'll point you in the right direction.

 

thanks for setting me straight RB.

this place has some killer deals on take-off parts, including lifters and cams. i coulda saved $105 on my cam if knew about them when i got it http://www.goautocenter.com/super_deals.htm

 

yeah i was gonna say..... flat tappet and roller cams are not ground the same !

as i understand things i believe the biggest thing about "upgrading" to roller is to reduce some friction at the bases of the lifters/lobes of the cam

hoew much length differenc eis there between flat tappet and roller pushrods ? anyone know right off hand ?

good luck

 

.400" for most of the hydraulic ones, but they're not all the same.

 

not sure on flat tappet pushrod length but the ones on my roller L98 from a vette are 7.195"

 

One other point on the difference between flat and roller cams is that roller cams are hardened steel, that's why they don't go bad as often.

RB, on the older retrofit roller stuff, aren't those usually solid lifters?

 

They're available either way... today I drove around a car with hydraulic "retrofit" roller lifters. At first, they were all solids, because we really only used them for racing. Then in the early 80s we got the idea of using them for the street, which was when hydraulic rollers were introduced. The factories caught on starting in the mid 80s.

 

I didn't know if they could make them that short with the roller and all.

Also, UK, I was just looking at that take-off stuff on the site you linked to. Be careful and compare prices! Some things are a really good deal, but some things aren't! Example, the PM rods they have there for $225, I paid $217.50 for a full set new in box from the dealer! As with anyplace, they can't be the cheapest on everything!