After carefully assembling project 350 I have a few problems. The block went thru the machine shop bored .040, new cam bearings Decked and checked for cracks. The heads are 041 castings with new guides, 2.02/1.60 valves, screw in studs, guide plates, the usual stuff.Also checked for cracks. The crank was a 10/10 kit, plastigaged w.in limits when i put it together. Of course new cam, lifters, pushrods, rockers. Everything went together beutifully. Started it up after priming it, oil pressure was 60+, set initial timing, checked for leaks, then took it up to 2000 rpm for break in. 3 or 4 minutes into it i lost oil pressure, temp gauge was about 200 degrees. I shut it down, hooked up a mech oil pressure gaugestarted it back up and still no oil press.
So now the engine is coming back out.......When I unbolted the headers from the head I had green anti freeze coming out of the exhaust port of cyl.# 2 & 5. ??????? Then when I pulled the oil pan and pulled the main and rod bearing caps, they were worn thru to the copper The rod journals were worn to a point that the crank is unusable. Cyl. walls look ok (amazingly) pistons look ok along with the rings. wrist pins have some grit in them?? The sludge on the bottom of the pan is (I guess) a mix of oil and bearing material. I put 5 quarts of oil in and drained out about the same(no more). So i doubt much if any anti freeze got in the oil. So I am at a WHAT TO DO NEXT????? I need a positive fix before i can justify trying to assemble the engine again with new components. I am going to talk to the machinist tommorrow morning and see what he suggests. Probably take the heads with me. But the engine never got hot. 200 tops. I was initially getting 60 psi of oil press. By the way I put in a new melling oil pump. Any suggestions or things to look at would be greatly appreciated. I am really scratching my a@@ on what happened. Without antifreeze in the oil I cant connect the 2 problems. but on the other hand i have a hard time believing that i have 2 seperate problems. It is just not that difficult to assemble a 350.........

 

yeah i can think of a few things, the big one you'd of found, pick up fell off oil pump. since you'd already know that and not be posting second guess is a failure in the oil pump or drive shaft, you should of saw any problem with the shaft, did you use stock and plastic conection piece? was it intact still? collent in the header sounds like a cracked head or blown head gasket. it really sounds like you may have 2 unrelated problems.

 

ede is that a common thing to happen or something? because when I went and tore my motor apart I pulled the oil pan off and the pick up was just laying there. I was like wtf? I also think it sounds like you have 2 different problems, 1 definately sounds like a head/head gasket.

 

it's common if you don't get it installed right, or don't secure it in some way. i weld a brace to the pick up and bolt it to the pump. lot of people remove the spring from the pump and weld the pick up to the pump.

 

What does the cam look like? Any rolled lobes?

Bearings scraped clean down to the copper = debris in the oil.

How was the block cleaned up? Did you, personally, either wire-brush the passages behind the cam bearing, or witness somebody doing so? Most of the time, when a shop tanks a block, they just dunk the whole thing in, and let it eat the cam bearings; then if they don't dissolve, they knock them out afterwards. If the motor blew up before you got it, and there was still metal left in there, it would have been washed straight into the bearings by the oil. For that reason, I always knock them out before I send a block off, and specify that it come back without them or the oil gallery and freeze plugs installed, so I can clean that place up myself. I also run some rifle brushes through all the passages to make sure there's no surprises lurking in there.

200° is not too hot, that's not a factor.

 

I welded the pick up to the pump after i removed the spring and cup. That isnt it. It looked fine when i tore it back apart. the cam is fine, cam bearings are worn alittle.
I spent 4 hours cleaning the block when i was done i took a white rag and could wipe it thru the cyl., mains, and cam bearings and not pick up any dirt. I took bore brushes thru the oil passages and blew air thru all of them also???????
I took the heads back to the machine shop today and dropped them off. He was going to pressure test them this after noon and let me know. There were no signs of gasket failure when i tore it apart.
That cam and engine sure did sound sweet for the little time it did run.
I am still investigating as i tear things apart. I think the next thing I am going to tear into is the internals of the oil pump????? Do they go bad out of the box very often???? It was a melling m55hv pump????

 

Were the cam bearings out while you were doing all that?

If the cam isn't massively rolled, then about the only possibility is dirt left in the oil passages after the pre-build cleanup.

This time, have the shop give you your block back with no cam bearings or any of the plugs; take it to the quarter car wash, and clean every oil passage and the groove behind the cam bearing with diesel fuel and rifle brushes, and a wire brush about like a toothbrush (except made of wire) for the groove behind the cam bearings; blast the hell out of every hole you can find in it, no matter how small; leave it in the sun to dry; then take it back to the shop, and have them put all the plugs and the cam bearings back in. It definitely has metal shavings in the oil passages now, and if you don't get them all out, you'll be right back here again.

 

yes the cam bearings were in it when i got it back. I never really thought about that.
I did find the spring and cup in the oil pump ( bypass??) was stuck half way down the bore it rides in?????? If it was stuck in that position wouldnt it be bypassing pressure all the time??? If so the question is, did this cause the problem( no oil press) or is it a result of the problem.( bearing material got in that bore and seized that cup???)

 

latest update...Machinist found 2 cracks in the heads when he press. tested them. He said he has never had a problem before and doesnt want to start a bad reputation now. so he is taking care of everything. crank kit (10/10) , taking out all plugs, cam bearings and dip the block, new oil pump, new lifters, new gasket kit, taking pistons off of rods and inspect wrist pins, Another set of heads. He is taking care of all this for my trouble.....I was shocked. He said the only place the grit could of came from was behind the cam bearings?????

 

sounds like about the best results you could hope for considering the place you're in. it's great the shop stood up and took care of it. might want to post their name here and tell your friends and neighbors, it's usually a lot more work to get half as much out of a shop when something like that hapens.

 

That's what I kept trying to say....

Make a point of going and looking at the block with the cam bearings out of it, you'll understand instantly.

The oil pump situation is a symptom of being full of metal shavings, not the cause of the meltdown. Replace it and its pickup, and use a drive shaft with a metal collar, which you can get at Auto Zone for less than $10. Use a regular Melling M-55 pump (NOT a high-volume one) and a new 55-S (not 55-S1, or -S2) screen. The screen is full of metal shavings too. After you weld the pickup to the pump, put it back together with a high-pressure spring, Mr Gasket part # 26. This is the cheapest way to the best possible oil pump for a street small blcok.

The oil flow in a small block is as follows:

From the pump, through a vertical passage in the main cap, to a horizontal passage in the block to the center of the oil filter, through the filter, up a short horizontal passage, up a passage at a 45° angle to the top of the back of the block, down a short vertical passage, to the rear cam bearing, around a groove around the cam bearing, to 3 holes that take short hops to 3 horizontal passages that run all the way from front to rear of the block right next to the cam bore. Of those 3, the 2 on either side of the cam bore feeed the lifters only, and the pass side one goes RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE of the distributor body, which has booses on it to more or less seal it to the block. The one above the cam bore is the main one. There is a hole drilled from underneath, in the bearing saddle, all the way up to this passage, through the cam bore. The oil flows down from the horizontal passage, around the back of the cam (there's a small hole in the bearing to oil the cam), then down to the bearing saddle, where it oils the main bearings and the crank, which has holes in it that pass oil to the rod bearings.

The groove behind the cam bearing is a notorious place for metal shavings to accumulate and not get cleaned out of. In my younger and more foolish days I ruined a motor exactly as you just did, and when I found out what caused it, I bought a cam bearing tool so I could be absolutely certain it would never happen again (it hasn't). I take the cam bearings out when I tear a block down, specify that it come back to me without them, I take it to the car wash, and clean it as I described. Then I put the cam bearings in myself when I'm ready for them, after prep and paint (and another washing).

Problem solved. Risk avoided.

 

appreciate the info. hopefully i will be back running in a couple of weeks

 

To graphically explain what RB so eloquently detailed:



EDIT: Hey, RB. Are those Bounty towels? I'm using the cheapest no-name things I can find. Remember that some of those have fabric fibers in them.