I'm looking to have the most unique camaro in my area. Do you think an engine swap from an 87 Grand National could be done for under $2,500? I want my car to be quick, but my job requires me to travel and gas mileage and reliability are a big concern. That's why a swap from my 4bbl 305 to a turbo V6 sounds like just the ticket. Just need to know what would need to be changed for the swap. Thanks.

 

From what I hear they are a lot more trouble than they are worth. Also, the GN motor is not exactly the same as the TTA. I know the heads and the exhaust manifolds are different, and maybe a few other things, but I know it's not an easy swap. You could get very good performace and gas milage with a 350 that is built right and for a lot less money. That's just my opinion.

89 Transam GTA, a few bolt ons

 

Check out this thread posted a while ago about somebody popping a 3.8 turbo into a third gen. There are some differences, but it's a good place to start for you...

<a href="https://www.thirdgen.org/forum/Forum1/HTML/024125.html"> turbo thread </a>

 

the 3.8 is well worth the effort. much, much faster than anything you guys can put on the street.

 

You can use a GN engine but yout cant have AC if ya do use it. Sonething about the accessory bolt holes in the heads are differnt for GN's than TTA's. You can use a set of FWD 3.8 heads to over come this prob and they flow better lol. The hard thing is getting a set of TTA hedders and engine mounts. More so the hedders. There are only 1550 out there as far as I know and I know of a few people that had a hell of a time getting as et for when they convertered their GTA's over to the 3.8 Turbo. You can use the GN engine mounts but it makes the engine sit about 2 inches higher in the engine compartment. Or there is a guy over on www.turbobuick.com that I think is making a set of poly TTA engine mounts for 300 or so bucks. Anoter thing too is you will need a differnt fuel pump and a wiring harness. Good luck on that. Youare going to pay a prudy penny to get a harness. Your best bet is to make one or get a GN hanress and some how adapt that to make it work.

Other than what I said, its not all that hard to phyically install the engine. Move the engine mounts to the V6 holes and use a adapter plate to connect the 700-R4.

As for the uniqueness of your car on SI haha yeah right.. There is a guy just over the bridge in Brookyln with a 89 GTA running low 11;s with a 3.8 Turbo www.tta850.com

Good luck dood.

Kat

 

The heads are different, as are the headers/manifolds. You CAN use the GN heads but you have to ditch the AC stuff, you can run the GN manifolds and crossover pipe but you'll have to get a custom downpipe. The TTA heads flow better from the factory,but the GN heads have a bit more meat to port...also if you ditch the GN heads for the TTA heads you'll have to change the pistons as well...the TTA heads have a high rocker arm ratio too

Send me a PM if you have any other questions or post em here

Just to make it clear in case there is confusion you can interchange the heads and manilfolds, its either all TTA or all GN stuff

 

Kat, how did you become so experienced in the swap?

 

Geeee Tony I wonder That and hagning out with Steve for aw eek or so during your swap I learned alot about them lil 6 shooters.



Kat

 

that swap isn't THAT bad, hell the stock crossmember already has the holes for the motor mounts. Yes there is some work required, but what isn't work?

I've done the swap(with a TON of help, actually most of my friends did it since I physically can't work on cars that well) and if we had all the parts it would've been done in 3 days or so. I'm having problems with my motor now but once its done it'll be WELL worth it, I say go for it

 

Personally, for that kind of investment of cash and labor, I'd think you would be more satisfied with a Mk IV swap. The "one gallon" Buick is a nice package in turbo trim, but the BBC is king for both HP and torque. The BBC potential is a lot higher - a LOT. You'll never see a 231 making 2,580 HP, no matter how much boost pressure you throw at it. For that same $2,500, you could build up a really nice 454 or 502. If you were really lucky, you'd find an aluminmum 535 I/C - marine engine that was just lying around, waiting for some fresh innards. Transmiaaions are easier to find, and the biggest problem you'll have is finding a rear end that will hold up to it.

If you're really stuck on a 231, you can find the parts in a few places, but expect to pay a premium.

Good luck with the swap.

 

Vader, while what you say is true how many daily driven BBC's do you see?

 

Not counting the eleventy-jillion 366T and 427T mediums running around hauling tons of stuff daily, or the millions of heavy duty pickups that GM sells, not a lot. That doesn't mean it isn't capable of being a good daily driver. Just because Flint puts the Buick engine in just about every grocery-getter doesn't mean the world is over for other engines. The Z06 'Vette would have a six-cylinder if that were the case. We would never have had the 1,400 HP turbocharged 350 if that were the case.

My point was that for the trouble of mating a transmission, control system, and limits on optional equipment due to the extra plumbing, the Mk IV or Mk V engines look pretty attractive for the price and effort. And while the Buick turbo is a slick little package (and always will be), the ease of a BBC in streetable trim would be hard to resist. Even a mild BBC will torque the body apart if not handled carefully. A silicon-aluminmum case would just be that much nicer (and costly).

 

I have a daily-driven BBC, well, at least some times out of the year it's daily driven.... it's a 454, in a 74 Caprice convertible.... and no, don't bother asking, it's not for sale.

But all that aside, the nice thing about the Buick turbo motor, is that somebody else has already done all the R&D, fabbed up the parts, and done all the tuning; and sold it all below cost, as a promotional thing (left over from the days when in Busch you could either run a 6-cyl or take a 200 or 300 lb penalty and run a V8, and Buick still participated), just for good measure. It's not like there's some kind of inherent superority in the Buick V6 motor; it's just that all that development work, the trial-and-error part, and the "oh S*** now the so-and-so doesn't fit, what are we going to do" is already done for you. In other words, the 3.8 isn't the thing that's fast, it's the turbo package that happens to fit only that motor.

Go to the Motor Swap board on this site. Once you weed out the non-swap questions like "how do I put a 350 in place of my 305", and the BS about "who has a used LT5 for sale cheap" then 3 posts later "well where are they all?" or "I'm going to put a 'real Pontiac motor' in my Firebird", an enormous number of them deal with either the TTA swap, or the BBC swap. Those topics are absolutely beat to death. Go read them, filter out the monkey-spank, everything you need to know is already there.

 

Vader, I don't think he's looking for 1400 horsepower :sillylol:

 

Just a comment that might help... I thought the GN motor had a diff. intercooler than that of the TTA, im not sure if that would matter though..

 

Yeah it is a different intercooler,slightly, but the dimensions are the same.(as far as I know)