305>350 swappers... starter?
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Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
From: Saugerties, NY, USA
Car: '89 Formula
Engine: 355 TPI
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9 bolt.
305>350 swappers... starter?
I turned the key on the chicken last night around 8 after locking myself in the garage for a few days. Turned over just fine but no-start. Advanced the distributor a little, then a little more and got it too advanced... the small 305 starter started groaning like something out of a bad horror movie to protest naturally and then tripped the main CB which shut the whole electrical system down for a few seconds till it reset.
After that it's just tripping the CB as soon as I hit the key so I guess I fried the starter.... OK it's 11 years and 96K miles on it so maybe it was it's time BUT here's my dumb question... anybody having luck with a small 305 starter or can you fit a larger (well regular size) 350 started up behind SLP 1 3/4 headers??? Will another small one take the strain or am I just asking for it???
I have a large starter from the vette motor donor sitting in the garage but I haven't put it back up in the air yet as I'm brainfried today.
Anyway, first I gotta fix this before I can see if the disconnected connectors I found afterwards will fix my no-start condition.
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'89 Formula - Thunderchicken - 5.0 LB9/T-5/3.45 9-bolt/black/t-tops - the fun car!
'90 GTA - The GTA - 5.0 LB9/TH700/3.27 9-bolt/black/t-tops/tan leather - the cruiser.
After that it's just tripping the CB as soon as I hit the key so I guess I fried the starter.... OK it's 11 years and 96K miles on it so maybe it was it's time BUT here's my dumb question... anybody having luck with a small 305 starter or can you fit a larger (well regular size) 350 started up behind SLP 1 3/4 headers??? Will another small one take the strain or am I just asking for it???
I have a large starter from the vette motor donor sitting in the garage but I haven't put it back up in the air yet as I'm brainfried today.
Anyway, first I gotta fix this before I can see if the disconnected connectors I found afterwards will fix my no-start condition.
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'89 Formula - Thunderchicken - 5.0 LB9/T-5/3.45 9-bolt/black/t-tops - the fun car!
'90 GTA - The GTA - 5.0 LB9/TH700/3.27 9-bolt/black/t-tops/tan leather - the cruiser.
I think the dimensions are the same for the 305 and 350 starters, not sure though. My starter fits just fine and it's a stock 305 one and it turns the engine fine also. The SLP 1 3/4" headers don't really impede access to the starter at all.
Here's my signature.
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4 bolt 350, 10.4:1 Compression, Edelbrock Aluminum Heads 6085, LT4 Hot Cam /w 1.6 full rollers (Crane), Scat Crank, SLP 1 3/4" Headers, SLP Cold Air Intake, Crane AFPR, 48mm TB, ported plenum, stock runners, Accel Super Ram intake manifold, 95Z #24 injectors, stock fuel rails, T5 Tranny, 3.45s, 9 bolt rear, 4 wheel discs, BFG Comp T/As rear, SZ50s in front, Alston SFCs, ES Trans Mount, ES front A-arm bushings, ES front sway bar end links
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4 bolt 350, 10.4:1 Compression, Edelbrock Aluminum Heads 6085, LT4 Hot Cam /w 1.6 full rollers (Crane), Scat Crank, SLP 1 3/4" Headers, SLP Cold Air Intake, Crane AFPR, 48mm TB, ported plenum, stock runners, Accel Super Ram intake manifold, 95Z #24 injectors, stock fuel rails, T5 Tranny, 3.45s, 9 bolt rear, 4 wheel discs, BFG Comp T/As rear, SZ50s in front, Alston SFCs, ES Trans Mount, ES front A-arm bushings, ES front sway bar end links
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 18,457
Likes: 16
From: Loveland, OH, US
Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
There's not really enough info in your post to be sure whether that starter will work or not. Here's what to look for.
There are 2 sizes of flex plates, each of which takes a different type of starter. The smaller 153-tooth one uses the smaller starter, and the larger 168-tooth one uses the bigger starter. The smaller starter has 2 bolts of unequal length in a straight line along the rear edge of the block. The larger one has equal-length bolts, the inner bolt offset about 1½" toward the front of the block.
If your starters are the same, they will interchange. If you have the smaller starter now and the other is the larger (or vice-versa), you're hosed unless you change the flex plate. Alternatively, get one of the high-torque "mini-starters" that are now available. I have the CVR one on my 400, it works magnificently. They make them for either mounting style.
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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
There are 2 sizes of flex plates, each of which takes a different type of starter. The smaller 153-tooth one uses the smaller starter, and the larger 168-tooth one uses the bigger starter. The smaller starter has 2 bolts of unequal length in a straight line along the rear edge of the block. The larger one has equal-length bolts, the inner bolt offset about 1½" toward the front of the block.
If your starters are the same, they will interchange. If you have the smaller starter now and the other is the larger (or vice-versa), you're hosed unless you change the flex plate. Alternatively, get one of the high-torque "mini-starters" that are now available. I have the CVR one on my 400, it works magnificently. They make them for either mounting style.
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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
From: Saugerties, NY, USA
Car: '89 Formula
Engine: 355 TPI
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9 bolt.
I'll have to go look at each. The chicken was a 305/5-speed with the small starter (about 3 inch diameter). The donor L98 vette motor starter (swag: 4" diameter as it's about 30 miles away at this moment) DOES have unequal length bolts but as it was an automatic and I didn't get the flex plate with it to see what the tooth count was. I just put a moroso pilot bushing in the end of the new crank and bolted up my flywheel and clutch setup to it.
Right now I was just hoping to get it started and worry about a hi-torque if necessary later. I already wasted $20 something on a heat shield that won't fit the smaller starter anyhow... I'll take that back if I can't use the larger one - one of those things at the speed shop like the candy at the checkout counter of the grocery store.
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'89 Formula - Thunderchicken - 5.0 LB9/T-5/3.45 9-bolt/black/t-tops - the fun car!
'90 GTA - The GTA - 5.0 LB9/TH700/3.27 9-bolt/black/t-tops/tan leather - the cruiser.
Right now I was just hoping to get it started and worry about a hi-torque if necessary later. I already wasted $20 something on a heat shield that won't fit the smaller starter anyhow... I'll take that back if I can't use the larger one - one of those things at the speed shop like the candy at the checkout counter of the grocery store.
------------------
'89 Formula - Thunderchicken - 5.0 LB9/T-5/3.45 9-bolt/black/t-tops - the fun car!
'90 GTA - The GTA - 5.0 LB9/TH700/3.27 9-bolt/black/t-tops/tan leather - the cruiser.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 18,457
Likes: 16
From: Loveland, OH, US
Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
OK, that's enough to know what's going on. I missed that fact that you're working on a stick shift, guess I should have read your signature more closely.
All the manual trans flywheels for these cars are the small size. Therefore the Vette starter will not work. It may be a reduction-gear one, a very nice piece, but still locates the drive in the wrong place for your application.
Go to plan "B", get a mini-starter, you won't be disappointed. Like I mentioned, the CVR one I have spins over my 10.4:1 400 easily, much better in fact than the little weenie POS was ever able to do even with the OE 305.
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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
All the manual trans flywheels for these cars are the small size. Therefore the Vette starter will not work. It may be a reduction-gear one, a very nice piece, but still locates the drive in the wrong place for your application.
Go to plan "B", get a mini-starter, you won't be disappointed. Like I mentioned, the CVR one I have spins over my 10.4:1 400 easily, much better in fact than the little weenie POS was ever able to do even with the OE 305.
------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
From: Saugerties, NY, USA
Car: '89 Formula
Engine: 355 TPI
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9 bolt.
Thanks for the tip but unfortunately I just decided on a lifetime AZ unit for now at $52 instead of the $159 or so for the cheapest 150 ft lb mini that my local guy could order in 2 days later. I slapped that sucker in last night, spun over just fine.
Checked the distributor and found that in my brainfried state I had lined it up in the wrong spot (couple teeth off)... fixed that, hit the key and it started up immediately. Sounds great - scared all the little kids and the ***** boys in the neighborhood. Still got stuff to clean up but for the moment I'M VERY HAPPY!!!
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'89 Formula - Thunderchicken - 355 Vetteheaded TPI/T-5/3.45 9-bolt/black/t-tops - the fun car!
'90 GTA - The GTA - 5.0 LB9/TH700/3.27 9-bolt/black/t-tops/tan leather - the cruiser.
Checked the distributor and found that in my brainfried state I had lined it up in the wrong spot (couple teeth off)... fixed that, hit the key and it started up immediately. Sounds great - scared all the little kids and the ***** boys in the neighborhood. Still got stuff to clean up but for the moment I'M VERY HAPPY!!!
------------------
'89 Formula - Thunderchicken - 355 Vetteheaded TPI/T-5/3.45 9-bolt/black/t-tops - the fun car!
'90 GTA - The GTA - 5.0 LB9/TH700/3.27 9-bolt/black/t-tops/tan leather - the cruiser.
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