Well guys, first off, you have a great site, keep it up. and well here we go with my crying.

Ok, so i want to take out hte 6 in the 90 camaro and put in a nice beefy 496 ci motor chevy style. WEll, i have a few questions. How deep can the oil pan be? And well, how strong is the chassis? The motor mounts should be grand, right? And, well i am going to run either a victor jr or a air gap intake, so how much room and i going to have? Well, and or course, this 496 will be putting out some pneys, i will be puttin a built 700r4 behind the engine. Do they make headers for cheap for these conversions?And any other answers you to any other questions i didnt ask, well can you please tell me. Any informatoin about this swap will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. If you are woundering the specs of the engine, here they are.

chevy 496, 4.25 bore, 4.375 stroke
68 vette heads with 2.19 1.88 valves
stock roller cam with around 210 duration soon to be comp cam
750 edelbrock carb, air gap or victor intake

 

many people have done bbc conversions.. try a search.. you asked how strong the chassis's are.. not very strong.. you will defently need some subframe connectors... also a 700 isnt the best idea to put in back of anything making some decent power... did they ever make a 700 with a bbc bellhousing anyway? i would personally go with a th350 or 400.. you might wanna try posting on the motor swap board too.. probably get more replys there..

 

Try this site: BBC swap into an 88 Camaro.

It's not an easy swap at all.

 

FYI bbc and sbc have the same bell housing

 

oo no poop didnt know that.. thanx!

 

Yes, that is why i am building the 700r4 up the right way,a nd if it blows, i have a turbo 400 sitting in the garage. I know its not a easy swap, but someone has gotta do it. where can i order sub frame connectors for cheap and does anyone know about the exhuast?

 

Man, you've really got to stop using that "cheap" word. It simply doesn't apply to the project you are proposing.

What you want is value. Check Spohn's site above.

 

Only headers Ive seen for this swap is the hooker longtubes.

 

Yeah, i seen hookers, they want around 400$ for them.. I guess i will pass and stick with some stainless steel cast that i can port . Now where can i order these subframe connectors? anyone know? and i think i may just get some sbc headers and make a spacer to bolt on them headers. Maybe it will work, if not, o well. thanks alot guys.

 

 

i think if it were me considering a BBC swap into a thirdgen f body i'd wait till i was out of high school and had some jack to paly with and not worry so much about cheap like mr. five 7 said.

 

Cast manifolds are not stainless, they are cast iron, and you can't just make a spacer to use SBC headers, they are way too different. Big blocks have 4 separate pipes and small blocks have the center 2 together.

 

they are stainless exhuat manifolds, trust me. And what i mean by cheap is not spending 800$ on connectros, but find a pair for like 200$. Does anyone know how big hooker primarys are by any chance? If them are 2 " then i will just go head and buy them. Yeah, i am in high school, but i want a nice car and you gotta spend somewhat of some money, and most of it is going into the engine, and i am getting the car for 500$ so i just gotta wait things out. Somehow or another this engine will be in this car in less then a month. I just wounderd ur opions on it.

 

there are no stainless manifolds. just for the hell of it post a pic and prove all of us wrong. you must of spent a lot of time loking for SFCs if you're worried about spending 800 dollars on a set. you'd have a hard time spending 200. have you given any thought to the rear? have a hard time not thinking a high school kid with a 500 dollar camaro w/a 496 and stainless steel manifolds is

 

2003 chevy trucks come with a 8100 vortec engine have stainles exhuast manifolds. Look it up, and try to prove me wrong now. I do work in a garage as a mechanic so i am not dumb. When i get this car together, i will send ya a picture of it with me in the driver seat and see how much bs it really is. When you work in a garage, and help people in the pits with there race car, u get to know what you are talking about. I have not had much experience with camaros

 

Can a BBC EVEN FIT into a 3rd gen??? Even if it does, I would bet money something will snap, probably the rear axle, if you tryin to do a burnout on wet road and you catch traction, I will bet that things gonna split like it was wood (if your car can make the power ). Anyway, on a high school budget (yes I am on one too) a 496 will NOT get into your budget unless you work every day till 10 after school. Seriously have you considered the GAS on that thing?? It's probably going to need 93 octane at the LEAST.

 

The things that come on those trucks aren't exactly manifolds, they are more like headers. They are therefore not subject to porting, since there's no extra metal. And they ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT GO into one of these cars, no way no how, no matter what.

Just getting a wild idea is only the beginning of a project. A little research, coupled with a willingness to learn rather than making up "solutions" that aren't and then not listening to people when they try to help out, would bring you much closer to your goal. There are people here who have had the 3rd gen that they're driving today since before you were born; listen to them, they might have seen (or - horror of horrors- they might even actually have done !!!!) a thing or 2 that they would be willing to share, if not put off by attitude.

 

Oooppps, I forgot something...

 

I dont have them, these are manifolds, not headers, trust me, i know what i am talking about. They are stainless, trust me, my boss works at dana and tests these engines and knows every little thing about them. There is plenty of porting on the manifolds, as they already have them cleaned up a little, as i will clean them and port them a little more. My main concern is running the dual 3in exhuast. I am running dynomax bullets also. I guess i wil just do trial and error since i am gettin dissed for being in high school.

 

Hmmm, why would you run manifolds?? Oh wait, I see why your running them and havin em ported, its gonna be tight.

 

You're not paying very much attention. Well, I do. And I posted a pic, so you can see exactly what they are.

There is no such thing as stainless manifolds. OK? Period. Don't exist. That's all there is to that. The factory is in business to make money, and stainless won't work one iota better for what they use manifolds for than ordinary cast iron will. They don't waste that kind of quantity of money on something with no payoff to themselves, you can believe that.

I posted a pic of the stainless thing that comes on trucks, which as you can plainly see is not exactly a manifold, since I just happen to have a pair in stock at the moment (for which I have absolutely no use as it turns out). I don't see how much clearer this matter can be made. One look should make it obvious that there is no significant porting to be done; maybe clean up the welds a little bit, that's about all you're going to get.

That piece, or any other truck piece, will not fit these cars. If you don't believe me, print the pic, and go walk out to your car, and hold it up next to your car, and imagine where that outlet is going to go. (That one is the driver's side by the way) It should be pretty obvious to anyone that's ever actually looked at such things what the problem is.

Being in high school isn't a problem. That's a situation that nearly all of us have been through at one time or another. Being misinformed, and insisting that confusion is an adequate substitute for reality, is a problem.

But back to the original question.... yes, a big block will fit in these cars, given a somewhat loose definition of "fit". Exhaust is an issue. There is no stock exhaust off of anything that comes even remotely dimly close to fitting in one of these cars. A few people (well, more than a few, really) have actually done this swap, and have seen this question asked so many times that they set up entire web sites devoted to answering it. If you go check the Motor Swap board on this site and do a search, you will find all sorts of wonderful stuff. They even tell what exhausts actually work, and where the other miscellaneous gotchas are.

You might want to consider a better set of heads whenever you build that motor. I'd recommend some 71-72 402 heads if you want to drive it on the street. You'll find that the lights at the track aren't impressed by the whole "Vette" thing; in reality no magic just mystically jumped out of the fiberglass and enveloped the heads with its aura, so you'd do well to get the "Vette" stars out of your eyes. Those were OK heads in their day, and still work OK for racing, on 110 octane fuel; they have real issues with modern gas though. All of the 69 Chevelle SS396s I have had, had the newer style heads with the adaptations to lower-octane gas, and even those were enough of a problem; of course, I've only had about 4 or 5 of those cars, in fact between my late little brother and me, we even had all 3 possible body style of them at the same time; coupe, convertible, and El Camino. But the only big block cars I currently have are that convertible (or rather what's left of it) and a 74 Caprice 454 convertible, so I might not know anything about big blocks myself.

You really need to do some research and not be so sure of yourself about things you have no clue about yet.

 

RB...

Those are SS?

Kinda resemble block huggers, huh?

Could you post a pic of the other side?

Thanks.

 

I needed a set of heads with a small chamber. THe heads are getting the bigger valves, so i will see what it likes. I wanted some 049 heads but couldnt find any around. And if you dont think they are stainless manifolds, dont think so, but these are exhuast manifols, not headers. The dump at the rear, and they are not CAST IRON, trust me to **** that they are not cast. I dont see a problem why they dont fit, but i will do a search on that board and see wut bbc manifolds do fit. They are at the garage and i will see if i can get a picture of them quickly. Thanks again.

 

Holy **** kid. Congrats on having every aspect of a crappy newbie, all rolled into one person.

Welcome to thirdgen.

Maybe we should start asking YOU the questions.

Like: "How hard iz it 2 tiwn turbo my tbi?"

or,
"my dad sez hemis are cool so im goin to put one in my car. give me ur free advice so that i can disagree with you, and complain."

 

Not trying to be argumentative here, but I believe I have seen the "manafolds" that Chev496 is talking about. They were on a light duty 454 powered truck(pick Up) and on a medium duty, 454 powered motor home chassis.

They are indeed stainless steel, and they look like a cross between a header and a manifold. The "pipe" that runs from the front cylinder to the "collector" is intersected by the all the other "pipes" as it passes by them. Not really a header, as there is no real collector, but it IS tubular, and not a CAST manifold at all.

This manifold is maufactured by two stainless stampings (halves of each manifold) that are welded together to make the completed unit -one side. So for the two manifolds, there are four separate stampings.

Not that these will work in an F-body, just wanted to post something I've seen that contradicts some posts above, and supports our newbie.

 

i couldn't find a pic of the manifolds that I'm talking about and that I think our newbie is talking about, but these look like them. Imagine a manifold that looks just like this, but made out of two stapings per side, rather than the casting pictured:

 

ok lets say they are stainless, why would gm make them out of a material 4 times or more the cost of cast iron? never been a problem with rusting, high heat enviroments isn't a good place for stainless. only thing i can think of and it doesn't seem logical is stainless has lot better heat transfer properties than steel/iron, but i don't think you'd want a greater exchange of heat under the hood.

 

A fab'ed SS manifold will resist warping and cracking better than cast iron. I agree that GM will spend as little as possible when possible. But apparently, someone else has seen these "SS manifolds" too:

http://www.goodsamclub.com/forums/in...TID/309823.cfm

Note the first and 4th posts please.

Still can't find a pic

 

I'll try to remember to snap a pic of the other side.

I would not describe them as "block huggers" at all. I got them to put in the 74 sled I referred to above, with a total smashing lack of success; rather than turning inward and being near the block, they kind of go straight down from the heads, and a car chassis doesn't have room there, because the frame where the front suspension attaches is in the way. I was bummed.

These came off of a light-duty truck; something more than a pickup or a motor home, but not a "medium-duty" truck, which in GM-speak is an over-the-road 18-wheeler ("heavy-duty" being construction and military type stuff). I think it was some sort of gas-burner school bus or something like that.

 

http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/p...ngine/8100.htm

"The exhaust manifolds are made of stainless steel to help resist corrosion."

Looks like tubes covered by a heat shield to me. Can't find a really good picture, though.

Doesn't say anything about whether they'll bolt up to previous BBC's, or whether they'll fit on a BBC in a 3rd gen chassis.

The definations of "manifold" and "header" vary by forum. The word "manifold" itself means many paths connected together. A "header" is a manifold by that defination, but in hot rod parlance, exhaust manifolds are castings, and exhaust headers are made from steel (mild, or corrosion resistant) tubes.

 

Pic:

 

I like chevy's and I like the Vortec 8100, but:

"Internal balancing reduces stress on the high-capacity camshaft" -??

and

"Lubrication is driven off the camshaft to help meet heavy demands of towing and hauling " Wow, that's WAY better than being driven off the CRANK!

Just thought that stuff was funny.

 

Thank you for your resource, like i said, i do know what i am talking about. jsut because u think i am a kid think you can dawg me, and i probly know just as much as most of youe people when it comes to engine. Yes, the engine is internally balenced and has a totally different firing order, hence the fact i must get a specially made cam. I just calle dup comp cams today and htey are going to grind me a special made cam. STill usses the same oil pump design tho so i dont know what my boss and i are going to firgure out about the oil pump. It even has a cast aluminum oil pan, great. Adn jsut for the record, i did get the pictures, if you want me to post them, let me know, but u finelly know that these are stainless. They are much lighter than most manifolds to.

 

This all got blown out of whack because you and GM call these exhaust devices "manifolds", when the convention on this board (and amoung magazines and amoung all the gearheads I know) is to refer to the cast factory things as "manifolds" and welded tubular types as "headers". Water under the bridge.

Sure, post the pics.

(Don't forget, you came here asking questions. Personally, I learned something today - of what immediate value, I don't know - but I also knew things you didn't. I post a lot around here dishing out information, but I keep coming back because I learn things here. Leaving the chip at the door helps everyone a lot.)

 

As faras the stainless steel manifolds.

I have seen a few pairs on SBC's in street rods, hard to classify them more of a header/manifold type crossbreed with no header sound. Very slick but expensive! Not worth it especially since I doubt they would fit a 3rdgen. I've got no complaints with the long tubes on my 396/402.

RB, Those look exactly like the tunned manifolds "GM speak" On the 86, 50 passenger bus sitting outside the shop. Funny, that BUS has a computer controlled Holley on it too, very low HP/tq rating according to the manual.

 

Here ya go, truely cast stainless manifolds, now will they fit?

 

Well the manifolds in that pic are not what I was talking about. Except for no rust, those look like cast iron to me. Is there such a thing as cast stainless??

 

look like iron to me too, but it's hard to tell. how do you know they're stainless? what sort of proof, or test have you done? still doesn't make sense to me why gm would triple the cost of a part for no gain.

 

Look and read on the gm site. It says streight from there that they are stainless, and plus i dont think u can weld stainless wiht a regualr welding. But my main concern is will htye fit. They are light as hell because there side walls are very thin compare to cast iron. I just orderd the cam today, tell me if ya think it will work. It is a comp cam with like 236 240 at .050 and 286 290 advertised. TI has a 110 lsa and .545 and .549 lift. I think that will give me a definate rough idle and kill some torque down low that i wont need, eh?

 

Amazing. What will they come up with next? I have never seen cast stainless anything before. And, they still welded the outlet flange on (factory production hates extra processing steps). Notice they cut between the port flanges as well.

You can't weld stainless with a "regular welder", but then, you can't weld cast iron with a regular welder, either. But, either can be welded with the proper equipment and technique.

Take a magnet up to them and see if they're magnetic.

You are obviously exhibiting parts that people on this board haven't seen or tried before. So, you get to be the guinea pig. From the looks of that driver's side outlet flange, though, the way it juts outward, I doubt it will fit. And, the outlets don't look very big, either (have you measured them?), which could be a serious performance hit for a high-reving really big block.

I'd think you're at the mercy of Comp Cams when it comes to how their custom grind will act. How would we know?

 

i know you can weld cast if you heat it up first and with a regular wire welder or arc welder. I dont think so on stainless tho. Hmm, then i may have to make some modification. Do you know what manifold will fit? I dont think these meanifolds will hold me back on much horsepower. Maybe 15 hp max. But then again the engine should make around 550, so what is a extra lil horsepower going to do? I guess i will just have to guess and check, and that is going to be no fun. These are very nice maifolds tho, and well if any of you guys want a set, drop me a e mail and i will hook you up with some for a small price. remember no rust, and much lighetr than cast for a stock look. I hope the cam i orderd is what i am looking for, i just wanted a nice lope and osmething ot kill some of the torque. Out lets i think are 2 1/2 but i will be running 3 inch with dynomax bullets and side exit before the tires.

 

depending on how much material you had to work with it wouldn't be hard to cut the outlet and relocate it so it did work and provide the needed clearance. stainless is easy to weld, just like cast is easy to weld, it's just a matter of correct filler and process. cast valve bodys and other fittings are common. you can pretty much cast any metal.

 

personally dude, i would spend the money on the hooker BBC headers, cause i know they fit and they are proven to work well. the primaries are 1 7/8" and the collectors are either 3" or 3 1/2". which will help with your low end torque "problem". a 3" exhaust system would be redundant with those manifolds cause you are already choking the motor by having that 2 1/2" collector that close to the motor. yes, those manifolds are going to hold you back big time on your project.

 

yeah, but 1 7/8 are still to small for a big engine like this. I need at lesat 2 inch primarys to get full advantage. I am already going ot have toque up the wazoo so i dont need anymore. I think i may stick with cast until i get somney for custom bent ones. I would bend mine own, but i want manderal bending, something i don thave access to. O well and yes, we probly will be relocated hte outlet to make it work if it doesnt work. tons of work, but it hink it will be worth it in the end, eh?

 

your not going to have as much as you think with that tiny cam an those heads. i think that you would be just fine with the hooker headers. those manifolds are going to be WAY SMALLER then 1 7/8" garaunteed.

oh and so you know (cause your obviously confused) a bigger primary will allow the engine to breath better on the top end, consiquently reducing low-end torque. so a bigger primary will take away torque, not add.

 

1-7/8 could be enough. What size are the exhaust valves on the heads you're using?

 

1.88 valves, and if i messed up on the torque thing, o well, it was late in night, but that is what i met. I dont want any more torque than what i already have. I figure adding a victor jr will kill some torque, and that is a pretty hefty cam for a car like this i do beleive. I cant go any bigger becuase the lift must stay under .570 or bad things happen.

 

well, i don't know what you consider big, most all out performance bbc have at least .700" lift. that is a pretty small cam. and kinda small valves. and as far as torque goes, the more the better i say!

but what do i know, i just build cars that run faster than 10 seconds, i don't know too much about street driven bbc.

 

10 seconds is damn fast, and u must know alot to get a car going that quick. WEll as far as the headers go, i am holidng off until i can collect more money, i need to save up for the stereo in it. He he, thanks guys.

 

yeah, they ain't cheap. well worth every penny though. don't spend too much on your sterio, you want to be able to hear to tune that monster big block; right?