well, after punching a hole in the wall, i came here for any advice....

after rejecting some of the advice given to me on this board, i decided to sawzall my y-pipe off to get my new starter in. i have new headers and y-pipe to put on, so i didn't really care for the stock y-pipe... so as i'm cutting off the section underneath where the starter is suppose to go, i hit the oil pan, and now oil is leaking all over the street as we speak (i'm trying to catch as much as possible. is the oil pan repairable? or is the car a loss?

 

The oil pan is repairable and replaceable.

You have several options as far as a repair goes but if you want to fix it without pulling the oil pan you have limited choices.

You can repair the hole with fiberglass, epoxy, or jb weld. You will have to let all the oil out and clean to outer surface well also rough it up good to let the epoxy/resin adhear well and wait 12 hrs to start it.

Your best option is replacing the oilpan but 2nd best would be to braze it. However you do not really want to braze it with it on the engine.

 

I dont know how recommendable this is but, here goes:
I had a hole in my oil pan on my last car, I drained the oil, and cleaned off the hole. I put a glob of JB Weld on it and pressed on a piece of sheetmetal. smoothed it out and let it dry before adding oil again. It never leaked again. I dont know how big the hole is, so you my need another fix, or to get a new pan.

Hope you get it worked out.

Dave

 

And you'll also need to figure out a way to patch that hole you punched in the wall

I did the same thing to an interior house door just a few nights ago...Temper, temper :nono:

 

best way though is to replace the pan..... you can find a stamped steel stock replacement for less then $30.... $12 if you're lucky...


btw, dont get the cheap chrome pan from teh shiney section of your auto parts store.

 

i'd weld it. drain it, or let it drain, run some inert gas in or exhaust from another engine and weld it. way more permanate than rtv or jb weld and easier than swapping pans.

 

bad idea..

the welding fumes would be in the engine.. and you couldnt clean the inside of the pan.. you will probly smoke the oil inside..


noo. to weld it, you would still have to pull it off... the only solution to fix it without pulling the pan off envolves some kind of epoxy.. JB weld, or whatever...

 

Naw, the way Ede decribed is fine, He knows what he is talking about. When you get a gas tank welded they do the same things.

 

oops! man I wish my stupid computer would have let me post for you. I tried 3 times and It would not work. I was just going to suggest you jack up the right control arm if you did not already try that. I have pulled starters before on the larger y-pipe cars 350tpi and 305 tpi and it works fine.

 

MrDude tell me what differance it makes where the welding fumes go or what differance it makes it the oil smokes inside the pan? long as there isn't standing oil in the pan it really doesn't matter. if ity is repaired as i said it will be 100% functionable, serviceable, and safe to use as it would be safe to weld. my guess is the grand total of oil pans, storage tanks, or fuel tanks you've welded or been involved in the welding of is zero. there is no reason to remove the pan to weld, unless you have no welding skills or abilities and shouldn't be doing the job in the first place. what is a bad idea, a real bad idea, is making comments about something you have no knowledge, skill, or experience in.

 

ya know, just two days ago, the original poster was asking where the starter was located at...my guess is he doen't have a welder available..just my opinion

That said, I think it's up to one of two things...pull the pan to replace it...or tow the car to a shop and have it replaced.


FWIW, if I were to MIG it, I know I wouldn't even go as far as ede is advising (ofcourse he's playing it safe)..I'd drain the oil, let it sit over night. Pull the hole in as close as possible, remove the paint and make it shiny, then buzz it.

The anount of coked oil would not even rival what is most likely in the engine anyways. The chances of a fire starting are so remote, it's not worth talking about. If you have to ask, you have never welded.

Also, I'd be interested in what harm "fumes" could do to the engine as well.

 

haha, yes i am the same person......
no i don't have a welder available or the ability to use one well..... the bead always goes crazy on me.. lol

anyways... i'm going to have to get it towed to somewhere to do it......

it just amazing how small projects turn into nightmares.... ugh.

 

lack of a welding machine isn't much of an excuse, there are people all over and even listed in the yellow pages with one. go ahead and not purge the engine and then when you hear a loud bang/pop and random parts exiting at a high rate of speed you can wonder if it had anything to do with no purging it. PCVs and oil caps especially make good projectals when welding on oil pans.

 

From a firefighter's point of view, weld the oil pan in the car, it's that kind of thinking that let's me know I will always have a job. Really, I've been to people, or what's left of them, that have welded gas tanks in their garage too. It would probably work if
you did that kind of work all of the time and were familiar with the procedure, but your not. So don't do it. Sooner or later you'll have to replace the pan anyway, so why not just bite the bullet and pick up a new chrome pan and hi-volume pump and install it. At least now you have a good excuse to do so.

 

Well I have welded gas tanks and oil pans and even radiators and all sorts of things I was told was impossible.

The troubble with welding the pan in my eyes other than the fire hazard (allways a concern since dad is the fire chief) oily metal doesn't like to stick, slag is not very good for crank bearrings, the guy who posted this cut his pan accidentally with a sawzall you think he is going to have enough controll to braze/mig the hole?

Fiberglass resin will seal the pan, take the heat, and hold plenty of pressure with no worry of slag in the pan or fire from oil, carpet, fuel lines, melted wires, etc... a 2" hole with a 10" fiberglass patch will be fine and stuffing a bit through the hole when it begins to harden will make it stronger.

Been there done that, probably do it again.

 

Everybody forgot the disclaimer:
Procede at your own risk...your results may vary!

 

Mostly good advice. As any trained/experienced weldor will advise, the first thing to do before unwinding the torch hoses or turning the power on to the MIG is to survey the area for hazzards, and make sure your extinguisher is full and accessible. The next thing to determine is the hazards of what is going to be heated/welded. That should be a "given".

However, a correctly repaired oil pan should never have to be replaced. And an aftermarket chromed oil pan is usually about as thick as one of the pixels on your monitor. They're like the bimbos on Snoop Dogg's Girls Gone Wild video - they look pretty but you probably wouldn't want to have one permanenetly. Stick with a heavy gauge steel replacement pan and you won't have any of the typical chrome oil pan blues.

And a high volume pump is rarely a good choice for a street engine, unless there is a turbo, priority main oiling, or valve spring cooler manifolds involved. Higher pressure is good, but the extra volume is rarely necessary and is only a waste of power and needless strain on the cam and distributor drive.

Your story reminds me of a local guy several years ago who was removing tile from a basement floor, and used gasoline as a solvent to remove the excess adhesive. He even "played it smart" by turning off the water heater. Unfortunately, he didn't count on anyone using the first floor gas dryer at the same time. Once the vapors reached the LEL, you know what happened. His remains were removed from the debris piled in the foundation a few days later. I don't remember if the rest of his family made it out alive or not.

Yes, safe practices should be a "given".

 

well....

to anyone who's following my story.....

i finally sawzalled the rest of the y-pipe out (without hitting the oil pan again).... i used JB weld on the hole.... i'll put oil back in the car tommrow, and put the starter in..... i'll tell you the good or bad news tommorow......

wish me luck

 

i hope that jb weld isnt too close to the y pipe....

if it gets too hot, jb weld can smoke and then "melt"

 

am i the only who thinks it's insane to cut the y-pipe out to get at the starter....?

I've had to replace starters in third gens quite a few times....i cant say the y-pipe ever severly limited my ability to get the starter out. Just minor fumbling around with it always got it out for me.

 

just out of curiosity...... did you change the starters on v6 third gens..... if so.... the y-pipe isn't in the way.... but even on the retardedly fabricated y-pipe on the LG4 is in the way....

but anyways, it wasn't a big deal to cut it, becuase i have an aftermarket one to put on (look in sig).....

 

its in the way in a v8 f-body....but it's hardly so unaccesable that you'd need to get cutting equipment out.

Like i said i've never had much problems getting them out, just fool around with it for a couple of seconds.

Not trying to be a jerk, but a smart thing would of just been to try to take it out normally first, you'd probably be surprised how easy it actually comes out.

But i guess this is how you learn.

 

I've never had to mess with the oil pan on my car. What's the deal with taking it off? Is it super hard or something? Anyways, I just replaced the starter on my 88 GTA tonight. It has the 350 TPI. I messed with it for an hour and couldn't get it out. I finally took the silenoid off, and the starter came right out. When I put the new one in, I took the silenoid off, installed the starter, and then installed the silenoid. It was pretty easy. The hardest part was getting that top bolt on the silenoid started. Other than that, it's a snap. Just take the silenoid off. Matt

 

Why the heck would you need to cut off the y pipe to get the starter out?

 

he's cutting the y-pipe to gain easy access to the starter.

He is also removing the old Y-pipe because he's replacing it.

Its like killing 2 birds w/ one sawzall.


It might be worth it to have a shop put in the headers, starter, y-pipe, and fix the oil pan.

It might keep the labor cost down doing it all at once.

 

Let's try a positive spin, he sawed through the oil pan.
So, he needs to raise the engine to install the headers probably anyway. Now would be the time to replace the oil pan with a chrome one, or aluminum, or whatever that makes that guy happy a few lines up, along with a hi-volume oil pump, or hi-pressure, or just a new freakin' stock one. So the engines up, the headers are going in, time to at least replce the timing chain (cam?...maybe not this time), starter and of course the new trick urethane motor mounts, and don't forget the h/p pulley for the crank. If he raises the engine too much and damages the distributor cap, he can upgrade to an accell or msd too.
See how things work out for the better?
See how weekend projects aren't?
See how I can justify expenses over and above budget?
Did you know I work for a government agency?

 

A good welder is a safe welder. They weld underwater standing in 3 inches of water doing arc welding. I used to work construction and I would see those guys weld in amazing circumstances.

 

LMAO, this is a great thread for a laugh, not what happened and was the reason for this thread, accidents happen, if you'r not careful, but the replies.

Blacksheep, I use the same logic in upgrading too.

Now on a serious note:

ede: You mentioned using exhaust (as an inert gas substitute) from (obvioulsy) another car, this is the first time I have heard of this, and would just like to know, does that really work? I mean it's kinda unorthidox, and something I would never have thought of.

 

raven it's pretty common and cheap method (at least where i've been) used to purge small tanks. i've done 100s, or close to it, gas tanks, fuel tanks for tractor trucks, off road equipment, rear ends (macks use to be bad about leaking around the weld), and oil pans. naturally i'd drain whatever was in them out, flush with water (for fuel tanks), and run exhaust in to the tank, or in the case of oil pans if it was still installed just run a line and exhaust from another engine into it. you can tell when it's coming out, or the tank is full of exhaust. never had a fire, never even had a burb. never felt unsafe about what i was doing, i'd worry more about being under something or getting burned from sparks than any real fire issues. use to get guys bring in a gas tank to weld and then want to "wait outside" till i was done. i told them if i was going to weld it they were going to stand next to me.

 

Is this for real? Someone saws into their oil pan and then 'fixes' it with JB Weld? You can't be serious.

... and everyone complains when someone saya that thirdgenners are stupid and cheap.

Tim

 

Let's face it, when you're up to your butt in alligators, it's hard to remember that your job was to drain the swamp.
Things I've fixed (somewhat forever) with JB weld:
1. Turbo 400 tailshaft that had ragged out it's driveshaft bushing, still going strong 18 years later.
2. Stripped threads in an intake manifold around the thermostat, good 1 year later.
3. Corroded elbow on a waterous pump manifold, 1992 pierce fire engine, lasted long enough to order another one.
4. Rust hole in a 1970 buick GS 455 rear quarter, still there
5. Misc temporary exhaust repairs
6. Rod bolts that were ragged out in a 1969 MG midget sportscar that I used to race, good for 6,500 and still alive 2 years later.
7. valve guides in a 65 chevy corvair, that was pretty much a failure (being air cooled, the engine still got hot enough to drop the guides)

See. it's people like those at JB Weld who should be getting things like the Nobel prize, not some flunky politician/enviromental whack/or poet.:hail:

 

JB weld is the stuff

I have used it on my seat before (78 celica if you guys remember), the radiator, hole in the throttle body, intake manifold crack, pipe sealant

just about anything

 

well, i did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


no oil is leaking....

the car started right up....

however, my car is louder than a harley motorcycle.... i got a headache from driving it for two seconds.... lol

headers , y-pipe, cat, and cat-back are going on asap....

thanks for all the advice given by you all...

 

Uhhh, I hate to bring this up, but if you started the engine without exhaust manifolds or headers on the car the chances of bending the exhaust valves are about 80% especially if you revved the engine up. Seems that when you let off, the cold air that is sucked back into the exhaust port when the valve snaps shut freaks out the valve stem. If you should do something like that, immediately hit the ignition switch and crank the car over on the starter a few times until it cools, that will "warp" the valves back into shape so that they will seal.
No lie, I B.S. thou not.

 

 

And all of the JB Weld in the world won't help him then......

 

bent valves would go along real good with the battery valve cover accident, sazall oil pan accident, can't get the starter out no clearance problem that started all this and the no power now that i'm done with my preformance mods.

 

whoa whoa whoa...... who said i didn' thave any manifolds on my car.......

the manifolds are still there, and most of the y-pipe, about a 1.5 foot section was cut out....

 

uuuuhhh... riiiiiiiiight


i dont know what i like more... the fact that the odds are exactly 80% or the part where you can bend them back with the starter....


im just going to nod my head and move on...... :sillylol:

 

so 80% of off road racers who run open headers bend their exhaust valves on startup....?

 

Heh no he meant open heads ie.. no manifolds which was never done so irrelivant.
Cold air on a hot valve is the theory behind the bent valve thing. I sure do not get the unbending with the starter idea,
But I have run open heads before with no problems well accept burnt inner fender paint and ringing ears.

 

Pass the popcorn this is getting good.....

 

I can't believe nobody's suggested this yet to fix his hole in the oil pan problem:

DUCT TAPE!

 

Here's how it works, I'm reffering to running th engine w/o any manifolds or headers, (just the open head port), and Ok the 80% was pulled out of the the air based on most of the time over the past 35 years that I've seen someone screw up like this they bend at least a few of the valves. How do you bale yourself out of this real quick? While the engine is still warm, shut off the ingition so that it doesn't start and just crank over the engine on the starter while the valves are still, shall we say "moldable", the valves that aren't bent won't matter, the ones that are have a pretty decent chance of being able to reseat.
Don't believe me?, go to a kart race where they run Briggs engines, every racer that has a clue will spin the motor to TDC when it comes off of the track in order to keep the valves from bending when it cools.

 

like i said before, it doesn't matter, because i'm not running w/o manifolds.

anyways... does the y-pipe heat up enough to melt the jb weld on the oil pan.... its holding up very nicely so far.. i'm just wondering....

 

Yes, sorry, just felt I had to explain, and Dingly, You must be living right, just keep an eye on it and plan on a real fix in the future.

 

I was once told by a very wise man that anyone can fix anything if four main tools are on hand....

1. Beer
2. JB Weld
3. Duct Tape
4. WD-40

Not necessarially in that order... and if you're an novice welding a gastank or an oilpan, I suggest adding in a 5th item... a first aid kit. Nothing worse than hot metal on the arm.

 

ok im still confused on one point here.. why saw the y-pipe off to begin with? even if you are replacing it? why not just take it off? i mean your gonna havta unbolt whats left of it to put a new y pipe on anyway.. well.. im gonna go slam my head into a wall now.. lol..

 

Man's REAL best friend

 

ede is a certified welder, and what he describes doing for a fuel tank is an excellent example of how to do the work in a safe manner.

here is what i know on the subject.

when you weld something like a fuel tank or an oil pan.... anything that has the potential to contain fumes (especially gasoline) it is better to weld on something that isn't empty.

remember... the fumes are more dangerous (more combustible) than the liquid itself. especially gasoline.

regarding the oil pan... what i would do would be to go pick up a stock replacement oil pan made out of heavy gauge steel.

as to what everyone else said, avoid the chrome pan.... a friend put one in his car, and couldn't get the damned thing to seal.