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Old Sep 13, 2003 | 12:28 PM
  #1  
flyway190's Avatar
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From: Dallas, TX
Ignition Problems and more...

Currently the problem is that my car won't idle without dying, the car runs like crap in general, and some of the plugs have oil on them, some are carbon fouled, and some are just fine.

Last Saturday I changed the oil pressure switch, oil, and spark plugs. It was acting up before I did this, but it got worse after. The day after next it starts stumbling and such so I checked and the #8 plug wire wasn't on there very well so I fixed that and then it seemed to run even worse than before (stumbling, jerking). A few days later I'm driving to school and on the streets it gave me a code 44. Yesterday when it was cold it died while I was exiting a parking garage.

I checked all of the sensors and they seemed to be fine, though I'm not sure about the TPS because sometimes it would read 0.48 V at idle and sometimes at the same idle speed it would read 0.6 V, and it would change almost permanently when I jiggled the accelerator pump lever. It would die in idle even while it was warm last night, the o2 sensor was reading lean, and the dwell was reading about 10 or 20. It also seemed to run better when I unplugged the MCS for some reason.

Today I've been checking the spark plugs, and I've found out a few things. So far I've only done the passenger side, I'll do the other side when I'm done typing. Testing each plug one at a time with the plug wire and what I believe to be a good ground source, it seems that the new plugs are operating just as well as the old ones. I did notice however that the spark is not very consistent. By that I mean that most of the time the spark was just a line toward the back of the electrode, but occasionally it would make a much bigger spark toward the tip. It seemed to be a random occurance, but does that sound normal? Plugs are gapped at 0.040, and I have an aftermarket coil. It seems to me like the spark should be that big all the time instead of just a line. Pictured is the line:



Also, here are my week-old spark plugs now:



From left to right is #8,6,4, and 2. #2 is covered in oil, #8 is white all the way around and the other two are just black. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be going on? Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading.

Last edited by flyway190; Sep 14, 2003 at 11:00 AM.
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Old Sep 13, 2003 | 03:16 PM
  #2  
Nixon1's Avatar
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From: Palm Bay, Florida, USA
Car: 95 E-150 & 07 Kawasaki ZX-6R
Engine: A slow one & a fast one
Transmission: A bad one & a good one
Axle/Gears: A weak one & a chained one
Those plugs look horrible... Oil on the plugs, looks like a blown head gasket to me man. See if the driver side plugs have any oil. I bet they don't.

Last edited by Nixon1; Sep 13, 2003 at 03:20 PM.
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Old Sep 13, 2003 | 06:52 PM
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From: Dallas, TX
Here's the other side. From left to right #1, 3, 5, and 7. #7 had a fluid on it, probably oil but the rest of it was white, and #5 is almost all white. #1 and #3 were like #4 and #6 on the other side. Engine only has about 15,000 miles on it.

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Old Sep 13, 2003 | 10:39 PM
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Nixon1's Avatar
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From: Palm Bay, Florida, USA
Car: 95 E-150 & 07 Kawasaki ZX-6R
Engine: A slow one & a fast one
Transmission: A bad one & a good one
Axle/Gears: A weak one & a chained one
Looks like your picture server just went down... Prob. exceeded the bandwith... Do plugs on the other side have oil too?? That would more or less eliminate a head gasket problem since the chances of blowing BOTH are a little slim... I dont see why your plugs would have oil and crap on them if it isn't the heads though.... Is their oil in your radiator? Or coolant in your oil? Those are more signs of head troubles.

Otherwise...I dont know what to tell ya man. Looks like you're getting an inconsistent burn between cylinders...
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Old Sep 14, 2003 | 10:04 AM
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flyway190's Avatar
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From: Dallas, TX
Some more info: I checked for vacuum leaks and couldn't find any externally. I haven't checked the fuel pressure but my car usually can idle without any pressure and I can see that fuel is going through the filter so I don't think that's a problem. I'm thinking that the oil is coming from the valve seals, it's normal for my car to blow some smoke on start-up. I changed out my distributor cap because one of the coil screws wouldn't screw into the old one so it was only held in by three screws. Didn't seem to have any effect. I'm also getting about 15-19" of vacuum at about 1000 RPM and the needle fluctuates very rapidly while slowly bouncing between 15 and 19. I also replaced the EGR valve, no effect. Anyone else have any suggestions?
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Old Sep 14, 2003 | 10:01 PM
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Nixon1's Avatar
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From: Palm Bay, Florida, USA
Car: 95 E-150 & 07 Kawasaki ZX-6R
Engine: A slow one & a fast one
Transmission: A bad one & a good one
Axle/Gears: A weak one & a chained one
Is it bouncing with the idle or the cam lopes or kind of on its own?

15-19 is enough vacuum.....

Last edited by Nixon1; Sep 14, 2003 at 10:04 PM.
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Old Sep 14, 2003 | 11:06 PM
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From: Ailsa Craig, Ontario, Canada
Car: 84 Trans Am
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700r4
number 2 and 7 are oil fouled, obviously.

as fot the ones that are white....that normally indicates a lean condition.

the other ones that are black are carbon fouled...usually indicating a rich situation.


just by looking at those plugs i say you have a fuel delivery problem and in number 2 and 7 oil is clearly getting into the combustion chamber. you said the engine has about 15 000 miles on it, perhaps it wasnt broken in properly and the rings in these cylinders werent seated properly. or perhaps they were installed wrong.
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Old Sep 14, 2003 | 11:09 PM
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From: Ailsa Craig, Ontario, Canada
Car: 84 Trans Am
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700r4
after looking at the pictures again...i would say that the picture of you actual spark indicates an ignition problem as well. thats looks like a fairly weak spark...it certainly could be better. however you seems to realize already that the ignition could be better. how are the plug wires? cap and rotor?

Last edited by darbleinad; Sep 14, 2003 at 11:18 PM.
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Old Sep 14, 2003 | 11:54 PM
  #9  
flyway190's Avatar
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From: Dallas, TX
The bouncing seems fairly random, normally the engine has a steady 21" of vacuum.

Could the oil be from the valve seals? I pulled the plugs right after the car had been sitting overnight, I hadn't driven it. I'll check this sometime but AFAIK it doesn't smoke all the time, only at start-up.

The plug wires are only about 4 months old, the cap I was testing with was about the same age, same with the rotor. I've had this coil for about 17 months, is there a good way to check it? All of the spark plugs and wires seemed to output the same spark.

I drove it around today, it seems to drive just fine but it stalls in idle.
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Old Sep 15, 2003 | 12:24 AM
  #10  
Nixon1's Avatar
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From: Palm Bay, Florida, USA
Car: 95 E-150 & 07 Kawasaki ZX-6R
Engine: A slow one & a fast one
Transmission: A bad one & a good one
Axle/Gears: A weak one & a chained one
Well if your vacuum is down then it's gotta be leaking from somewhere.... Wish I knew more about carbs....

Oil smoke only on startup definitely indicates valve seals. Oil leaking down from the seals when the car is sitting so it smokes up when you first start it but then doesnt the rest of the time.

Coil, it can be checked, they sell coil testers. You hook one end to the end of a spark plug wire, and attach a ground clip to the chassis, then dial in the amount of spark gap you need. Some have numbers on it and then dashes for what gap with electronic ignition and standard ignition is generally needed. Then just have a buddy crank the car over as you watch the spark jump inside the housing. The ground is to keep your *** from getting zapped. It's safer and more accurate than the screwdriver/fender test.
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Old Sep 15, 2003 | 05:05 PM
  #11  
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From: South Jersey
Car: '16 Camaro SS, '88 IROC
Engine: 6.2 Gen V
Transmission: 6 spd TR6060
Do a compression test. If it passes, the oil is from the seals. Plug wires could also cause what you are seeing with the spark.
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Old Sep 16, 2003 | 08:40 PM
  #12  
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15000 miles is much too soon for valve seals to go bad. But, they look as though they are. Did you get 3 years warranty on the engine? If not now would be a good time to put a better set of heads on it. If I had the money i would do that to my LO5 in my Malibu. I have tried everything I can think of the get rid of the ping short of doing away with the computer. I would like to keep it as legal as possible for the coming emission (less than 2 years away) testing here in Austin.
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