I need to hear from each and every person that has purchased ANY Canadian vehicle and had to make it meet US EPA standards. I must take care of this immediately so quick responses will save me time and $$.

The 1982 Trans Am I am buying from an individual in Toronto is ready to be driven back to the states, but US Customs would not allow it to go through because I did not have a letter from Pontiac stating that it conforms to US DOT and EPA standards. The US Customs website states that SOME vehicles will require this letter, but does not indicate what determines a vehicle needing this. Customs told me that cars 25 years or older donÕt need this letter. Mine obviously is 4 years from being old enough. They simply could not let me bring it home without the letter or label on the car indicating it complies with US (labels indicate it does comply with Canada). Plus they were less than rude to me about the matter.

After speaking directly with Pontiac this morning, I received confirmation that my car IS indeed an American build, and DOES conform to the US DOT safety requirements (which should make sense since it was built here), but it was made for the Canadian market and doesnÕt meet the US EPA standards. It is a one owner vehicle, and has been in Toronto its entire life, kept in immaculate condition (only 21K US miles). It has a Canadian odometer/speedometer, and a catalytic converter with split pipes that each go to a smaller muffler (IÕve never seen this on US Trans Ams, but I know some older cars had this setup). So WHY then am I punished for having an 82, whereas I would be free of problems if my car was built prior to 78?

Before you respond, understand that I have done as much research as I can possible. No one really knows the steps in importing a vehicle, and even Customs doesnÕt seem to care about a dream IÕve had.......sure security and policies are important, but itÕs ridiculous that I went all the way up there to get it and was denied even the option of bringing it back with a grace period to have an e inspection done. Do any of you know what the EPA in Washington may have me do to the car to make it comply? Will an echeck suffice for Pontiac to approve? And how would I get that done if the car is not allowed in the states? Canada certainly doesnt run echecks for vehicles in preparation for importation do they? All I need is a label or letter stating that it complies......so what do I have to do to get that? And preferrably this week?

Am I correct in assuming that, since it is an American car, it has the exact same motor, tranny, electricals, etc? It sure looks like it does, again with the exception of the Canadian dial.....but all the other gauges are just like US. So does this mean that a diff. exhaust system is necessary for the EPA approval? My friends dont think that is the problem since several cars have them. I would imagine that a Pontiac technician would know what was done to the Canadian bound cars that makes them not comply.......but all my frind thinks is that customs just needs a simple document, and all I have to do is figure out why Pontiac doensÕt consider this car EPA compliant in order for that document to be issued. They can get me one now for the DOT approval but why pay $40 for a letter stating that only 1 of 2 things are ok? LOL

I canÕt imagine having already spent the time and money I have on a car I will never get to own (except for waiting til 2007 to bring it home which is absolutely out of the question). Some of you must have dealt with this before, or know someone that can offer advice. I am more than willing to change the exhaust system if that is all that needs done (but if others have that then WHY would I?). I am calling EPA in Wash. tomorrow when I have time, to tell them my situation and try to figure out what needs done so that I can bring it home. I KNOW cars of this nature have been imported without a problem, so what do I have to do to bring this car home? I had to unexpectedly pay for storage to keep it on the CAN side.....I only have a month and want to get it to OH before I have to pay any more. The dream IÕve had of owning a 3rd gen for 20 years is worth the trouble, and IÕm not giving up this car. But I am not moving to Canada! And are any Trans Am clubs near the Niagara area that may know? I figured they would have dealt with this.

Thanks for your help.
Brad Sherman
Columbus OH

 

I'm not sure on this one, since I have never imported a car myself, but I think that the VIN can tell you if its an American or Canadian car, and if it does, you can probably show them that it was originally an American car, and then they should let it in.

Don't quote me on this though.

 

Hmm... just thought of something else... maybe you can go up there, get the car, drive it home yourself and just plate it?

 

From my military service, I can say that you've gotten the correct information. They've already told you that the car cannot be imported (yet) for use on US streets & highways. The fact that it was assembled in the US is meaningless, as they built export models that do not conform to US standards (but do conform to the standards of the country to which it is being exported). Candian models did not get the exact same electronics, for instance.

Your choices are:
1) Pass it up.
2) Buy it and store it in Canada.
3) Buy it, get Canadian plates on it (boy, there's another can of worms), and drive it home. Keep it out of sight of the local authorities. A real crapshoot.
4) Buy it and import it for off-road use only. (You may be able to get exemption for road use in 3 years - the '04 models are out now, you know). Another crapshoot.

I've heard of the 2-mufflers setup on '82 models. A one-year-only thing.

I'm waiting for '07 for my '82 for different reasons (5-year collector plates; no emissions testing required after the plates are issued).

 

Thanks for your input. Unfortunately I am not getting a positive feeling here.....

The car is already temp plated for Ohio. The title is signed over to me, financing has begun, insurance is taken care of.....etc. Customs wouldn't even touch the car without the letter.....it was as if they predetermined that they wouldn't accept it, so regardless of what I have done already, it's of no use. They wouldn't look at the VIN.....they just didn't want to even help. They made it seem as though I had to know every single little thing, otherwise I was out of luck. Without proof that it complies, I cannot bring it in. Another mechanic said that the car may not be compliant due to the dual exhaust, which he didn't think was standard on T/As of that time.....does anyone else agree? Five7kid, if the dual exhaust was only available for one year then perhaps that is the reason the compliance changed......? I'll change exhaust if necessary. I jsut find it funny that it conforms in every way except for emissions, which HAS to be an exhaust issue.....

 

GM should be able to provide you with the reasons it doesn't comply to US EPA.

A buddy of mine wanted to import his Eagle Talon into the US when he moved to Florida to go to school. The manufacturer provided a letter stating what needed to be done for it to comply. In his case it was the seatbelts. the US model had automatic ones while the Canadian version was standard ones. The cost were too expensive to make it worth his while, so he simply sold it.

In your case I am sure it a small reason, because the US and Canadian FBodies are virtually identical. Might be something as simple as emmissions equipement or the odomoter/speedometer being metric vs. imperial.

Don't give up, contact GM and track down someone there that can help you.

 

Candian cars got non-CC carb & ignition. US requirements call for CC carb & ignition. That's no small matter.

GM might list the required changes for you. Expect it to be long & daunting.

But, if you can find someone who has de-smogged their car, you might be able to get all the pieces & pull it off.

 

what happens if you have the car as a non street car? purchased to make a drag car for example, or as a collectable, trailer it back home. Worry about the emissions when you get it back.

shhhhh .....find a ******* in them there hills to drive it to the states on the shine roads

just curious on the collectable idea. if not being streeted for 5 years. gives you time to get the needed parts to get it legal.

 

So you can't drive the thing across the border? Say you get the prvious owner to plate it, you drive it home, send him back the plates..... Have you talked to the license beareu? What do THEY require for titling it? Basically what I'm saying is, do you really need to IMPORT it, as compared to driving it home and titling it? I know you've done the research, but there has to be a loop-hole?

As for the dual muffler issue, I saw that setup come off an '84 T/A once. Maybe it wasn't original for that car, but it went on an 82 bird!

I'll be following this to see what you come up with!

 

.
A friend of mine did that twice, just drove it Florida and titled it there. Had no problems whatsoever. They were Suburbans by the way not fbodies

 

Thanks to all for your suggestions. I really didn't think I could just bring it home and worry about adding the legal stuff later. I certainly do not want any trouble "down the road".....do you think I would have problems if one day I am asked for proof that the car was EPA approved before I brought it home?

Again, it currently has a temp OH tag good until the end of Oct. and I was trying to get it home with that. Theoretically I should be able to do as suggested and get it here, then worry about adding whatever I need to add. It would be a lot easier than trying to add things in CAN. Im off now to get the tech info from both Pontiac and the BMV.....wish me luck.

 

What about getting the emissions tested in Canada and then comparing them to US standards? If it conforms to US standards in Canada, maybe the DOT would document this and then allow you to "import" it... I dunno maybe worth making some calls and finding out...

 

If you end up giving up on importing it, I might be interested in purchasing it from you.

 

The car has passed every Canadian E test with flying colors.....the last test was in 2001. It should have no problem passing any in the US, that is, depending on how much they look into the configuration.

Update: I am waiting to talk with someone at EPA about an exemption for this car. On the EPA form, codes are used to distingush the type of import. My car would most certainly fall under Code E (vehicle or engine at least 21 years old, with the calendar year of manufacture subtracted from year of importation). It says it must be in original unmodified condition, which this is. Now, has anyone seen this? Am I putting my hopes into something that won't work for me? LOL I see no reason it shouldn't meet that code, and even though the car was manufactured in early 1982, that would at least make me eligible to import it in Feb. of next year when it is 22 yrs old (or 21 according to EPA). How nice that would be. And it would beat waiting til 2007, OR trying to bring it home unnoticed.......your thoughts?

 

LoneCrusader- were you stopped at the border when you tried tyo drive it in, or was a transporter bringing it in? I would think Ohio motor vehicle dept. would have denied your temp plates if it couldn't be brought in.

 

I imported my 87 IROC from Canada (first to Arizona and now California). I required a letter and documents from General Motors. The car also required a special California certification (normal smog test not valid). They had the car for a few days to check over everthing to ensure it was stock. They then attached a sticker to the door sill to allow me to get a regular smog check and then plates.
If the car is non modified you should be alright but it takes alot of leg work.

 

While stopped at customs booth like normal, I was honest and told them I had purchased the vehicle. They then had me go to the office where the process of checking the car's documents began. I wanted to import this correctly so I had everything I needed with me except for the EPA/DOT conformation letter from Pontiac (which I now know would have done no good). They wouldn't let the car through.

Now, I was told by my BMV here that I need to bring the customs papers to them in order to have the vehicle inspected so it can get the new title/plates (the reason behind telling customs in the first place!). I will talk to them again but it appears that if the BMV knows it's an import then that adds one step to the process, and with a Canadian dial/odometer, I doubt they'll overlook that LOL. Yes, everything on the car is original.

I just now got off the phone with Pontiac and their 3rd party (VINTAGE) which handles documentation on older vehicles. Neither were able to provide information or even a complete list on which parts are needed for this car to comply. That is absolute BS if you ask me. The guy at Pontiac clearly stated that if Vintage can't provide it, then it is up to my best guess as to what I should put on the car........Vintage however said it must be given to the ICI for commercial importation, who then will install what they feel to necessary for it to conform. So I'm now down to 2 options: Either this car is exempt from EPA due to Code E (as described above), OR I will have to shell out a lot of $$ for ICI to take the car, put on it what they need, and then bring it into the US.

Keep your fingers crossed that my call to EPA tomorrow goes well!

 

Was VINTAGE a US third party? Or Canadian? When I was importing my vehicle into Canada from the US, I wanted to order the documentation package for it (detailing all it's history etc), but they only did it for Canadian cars if I remember correctly. If you contact Pontiac of Canda, they should be able to help you out.

 

VINTAGE is indeed the 3rd party in Ontario responsible for data on Pontiac vehicles. I have talked to them several times this week alone. I think that even though mine was built in the US, it was a Canadian make, so that is why it received the Can. VIN# and therefore why it is in the VINTAGE archives. They said the same thing about offering to mail (for a fee) a packet containing information on the car. It would take them a few days but they can provide it. They were able however, to use the VIN# and tell me the cars build date (April of 1982). That means, if the CODE E on the EPA form holds true (and I'll find that out tomorrow) then my T/A should be cleared to bring home next spring when it is 22 years old (must be at least 21, with the year of manufacture subtracted from the year of importation). Does that sound right?

 

Wouldn't it be considered 21 now? 2003 - 1982 = 21.

 

A friend of mine had bought a motorcycle in Canada and had the same kind of problems. It took him about 6-months of leg work between the govern"MENTAL" red tape before he had everything squared away and legal. At that rate, you could have a mail-order-bride from the Philippines cheaper and quicker !!
Good Luck Dude !!

 

LMAO! You're right about the mental part of it. And I'm single so perhaps I can take care of that in the same time as well LOL.....I may have to settle for this car given the amount of time and money I've invested in IT! After all this I'll want to at least be buried in it.

lava: The car will be 22 yrs. old next April, so even if the EPA waives the year of manufacture (82) then it would be 21 yrs. old, which is precisely what I will discuss with the specialist tomorrow when she is in. If anyone will know about the chance for my car to be exempt, EPA will! *crosses fingers*

 

Ok guys........thanks for all your help. Fortunately the EPA is on my side! The car is exempt thanks to it being 21 years old. WHEW! What a headache.......

 

I still don't understand, You tried to drive the car across the border. They asked you if you bought it in Canada you said yes and they wouldn't let you in.

So why not just go to the next road on the border and when they ask if you bought the car in Canada you just say no I drove it here and now I'm just going home to Ohio.

BAM!!! your car is home with you in the Good Old US of A. If you need someone to lie for you I'll do it for a fee!!!!

Good Luck, Garrett

 

Thanks man but I have it all cleared up.

I went to bring the car back into the US. At customs they asked the usual questions, and when I had the car with me I told them I had purchased it from the seller in Canada. They then directed me over to the station where the paperwork is reviewed. They didn't see any labels on the car indicating that it met US emissions standards, so they asked for a letter from Pontiac stating that it meets DOT and EPA. I had no idea this was necessary, and the whole situation got even more complex since the office that is to provide the document wasn't open when we were there.

So after putting the car in storage and coming back to the States, I got ahold of the office Monday morning. I was then told that this car met DOT, but not EPA (it was made here but designed for use on Canadian highways.....Canada had less restrictions back then). At that time I didn't know what to do, and that's when I wrote to several people including the 3rd gen boards about this.Most thought I'd have to have the missing parts installed for it to comply, but fortunately today I was told by the EPA that this car will pass the requirements simply because it is 21 years old. CODE E on the EPA form states that a vehicle must at least be that old for compliance to be waivered. Make sense?

Had these restrictions been clear from the start (the customs site mentions that some vehicles need clearance like this, but not WHICH ones and WHAT determines that), I would have saved some time......but no one I know knew what I would encounter throughout this ordeal. Very few people seem to buy cross the border, and most of the ones that do get classic cars which don't have these emissions restrictions (older, classic cars aren't driven near as much as newer daily drivers, hence the strict rules on newer year models). I didn't even know that cars meant for different countries received different mechanicals.....Oh well, it's all been worth the trouble....

 

Very interesting. That's good scoop. Glad you're on the way now.

Now, if that's okay per the EPA, how can our localities require us to meet the standards still today? Hmmmm?????
What say we all get together & start something. Who's with me?

 

I'm with ya...Let's go burn some flags or just rubber will be fine

 

All I can say is that I'm glad you got your '82 most-aerodynamic-third-gen-ever T/A out of this!! And I'm glad this message wasn't locked; maybe it'll help one of us out one day. Let us know if you get it smog-checked in this country, and if it passes with flying colors or not!

 

There is one other option but your really going to have to do your homework because I don't even know if this is still law but... in the 90's a law was written in that allowed each American a once-in-a-life-time exemption to import one car and you DID NOT have to meet EPA. I would ask a reputable magazine like Motor Trend or Car & Driver to see if this still exists. I imagine that law makers are not going to volunteer this information. If it is still law, you have to ask yourself if you want to use it on an 82 T/A and not that once in a life time Ferrari Mondelo worth a half mil here in the states.

I think getting your T/A to meet EPA would be the wise choice but you may pursue this idea for another more lucrative project!

 

Would a 1992 Z28 (350 TPI) that was exported to Canada meet US emissions and safety requirements?

I actually have 2 options, since I have a pretty much identical car right now I could just go into canada with my current PA license plate and registration and insurance card and drive it back because it would all be valid. only difference is the engine and vin but theres really no way for customs to tell... Is this a feasible idea? Would it be problematic to register it in the united states afterwards or would i be fine?

I mean if customs wouldn't hassle me as i crossed the border i would have no problem being honest with them, but if its gonna be a bureaucratic nightmare i might as well just use the paperwork that i have for my current US '92 Z28.

any opinions on this would be greatly appreciated!