Im getting confused now, but i am not really sure. I just read a post on this forum titled as "You are not going to believe this" and theres to different statements about pontiacs engines being BB's or SB's. Is a Chevy 400ci a big block or small block? Is Pontiac 400ci BB or a SB? I always thought a 400ci was sb. Heres the post....you are not going to belive this

 

A 400 is a Small block chevy, there was a big block in the 70's that was a 402 or a 396 bored .30 over, it was called a 400 by badging on 71 and 72 pick ups. As far as the Pontiac i dont know.

 

lol, is that the whole quote?




in the CHEVY world, small block and big block names are based totally upon design.


the one that looks like and has the external size of what came stock in V8 3rdgens is a small block



the big block is a totally diffrent motor, it has a much larger external size, and looks diffrent.




in the CHEVY world, displacement has nothing to do with it being a big block or small block.



small block chevys range from 286- 400 in stock forms... aftermarket small blocks can go as far as 454 and larger

big blocks were 396 - as high as you can afford.... they could have made a smaller one then a 396, but i donno of it.





now most of the time, when people say 400 they mean 400 smallblock.. esp here on TGO. obviously if there is a 396 big block, it can be made to have 400 cubes.. but then they would normally say 400BB.



so its safe to assume any 400 motor here will be a 400SBC.

 

wtf is a 286? the sbc came in sizes 262, 264, 265, 267, 283, 302, 327, 350, and 400. i don't believe i left any out. the 400 was small block only. off hand, bbc sizes were 366, 396, 402, 427, 454, and 502. pontiac's, there isn't a technical big block and small block although there are two different block set up's. the 301 and down pontiac v8's are a short deck and the 326 through 455 were a tall deck. the 301 and smaller are referred to as scrap iron, the 326 and 350 pontiacs are referred to as soon to be replaced, and the 389, 400, 421, 428, and 455 are the preferred one's and often called big blocks when they really are no bigger block wise than a 326.

 

whoops... i donno where that came from.. lol.. brainfart i guess..


a 262 was the smallest...




edit:


a 286 is the next microproccessor that came out after the 8086.... then came the 386, the 486, and then the 586, aka the Pentium.........

this is what i get for switching between computer boards and car boards.. lmao.

 

lol, ah....

 

Could just say, dont matter a SBC 400 has more power and more potential then a BOP 400.

 

Not sure about the SBC 400 having more potential than a 400 CI Pontiac. If it does, its only due to the lack of speed parts available to the Pontiac.

 

Missed the 305 and 307.

 

i know the difference in a SBC and BBC. I just heard people say big block 400 and small block 400, but i never thought of boring a 396 to a 400. Is that a 396 bored .030 over with a stock crank?

 

The factory called the 402 a "396", "400", and "402". On the fender and in the advertising, it was either 396 or 400. On stickers under the hood, it was sometimes called 400, sometimes 402.

If you see "400 2bbl", that's a small block. If you see "400 4bbl", that's a big block.

A .030 396 is a touch over 401. The stock bore was 4.094, adding .030 is 4.124. But, the 400/402 was 4.125. Both had a stroke of 3.76" (the 400 small block bore/stroke was 4.125/3.75).

Honest.

Want to ask me how I know?

 

i thought the 286 was the ford v8

 

Demon, I believe your talking about a 4.6 289? Five7 ..how do you know?

 

thats the one

 

All I know is that Chevy has a SB 400, BOP had a 400 - could'nt really call it a big block since all thier engines were the same size (I think) from 350 up to 455...Chevy also had a 396 BB, 427 BB, 454 BB - not sure about 402's, well maybe I have - the firebird 6.6's??? ...but I've heard of them...AMC had a 401.???.....

 

Lived through that debacle of an era. Still dealing with it with current equipment.

Yes, Virginia, there was a Chevy big block 402...

 

What years did Chevy make a 264?

 

Never.

I assumed that was a proof-reading miss.

 

i did forget the 305 and 307. watching tv and typing gets me at times. the 264 is what the L99 is listed at for cubic inches in the gm shop manual. as i recall, it was 94 to 96. i will however point out, they did make a 400 4bbl small block. as far as the engine goes, how gm listed it at the time and what the engine actually is doesn't really matter.

 

Do you mean the baby LT1? That was a 265 ci IIRC.

 

The L99 was 265ci. Ya forgot about the W Blocks 348, 409, 427.

 

427 wasn't a "W" block

 

Lol, check your age at the door...

Last I remember, the only "400" badge for BBC's were on trucks. believe it was "400 8", my Gramps had a 3/4ton with the "400 badge, believe it said "400 8"...did cars get the "400" badge (for BBC) as well? I only remember 396 and 402 on cars...or do I remember 402 on cars...maybe it's my age I should check?

 

There WAS a 427 "W" engine offered in 1963 known by the code Z-11 in the full-size Chevy.

Full-race combo version of the 409 with a slight overbore.

jms

 

And that was a production block?

 

If i remeber , on Monster Garage they chopped up a 1970 or 71 el camino with a 402 bbc and on the fender badges it said 402 and had the whole checker flag things and whatnot. i cant remeber but i think that 402 bbc had a 4bbl carb on it also. im sure thats what the sticker on the fan shroud (sp) said when they took it off and thru it on the junk pile.

 

Correct there is no such thing is a big block pontiac. 326ci all the way up to 455ci all had the same basic block. The only "small" V8 pontiac made was the 301 but I don't think that justifys calling the rest BB's and the 301 a SB cause that motor sucks

In the AMC world (my favorite car company, in case anyone cared) 304, 360, 390, and 401 all share the same block

 

Yes the 427 "Z-11" was a production W motor. Only made in '63, as far as I know. 4.312boreX3.65strock. Thanks, Bobby

 

my friend at work had a 79 or 80 Ta with the 301 and he was smoking 400's and 455's. the motor looked like a stock 301, the motor was built by an SCCA racer and only had problems with the q-jet, after my friend rebuilt it he said that motor really woke up. i think u just need to know what ur doin with the 301 to make it a go getter.

 

Thats the key with any motor! To know what your doing. I seen Chevy trucks with the inline 250ci six cylinder tote the front tires!

 

Don't kid yourself about the 400 Pontiac it can make power with a 400 sbc. Not with a 400 bbc. The limiting factor with these engines is cylinder heads. You can get sheet metal intakes, solid roller cams and high compression pistons for all. Good sbc and Pontiac heads are about equal. BBC heads are better than both sbc and pontiac. The 396-402 can always be made to make more power than the 400 small block or 400 Pontiac.

 

Its a fact that when the 400sb was put head to head in tests with the "400"bb, the sb out did the bb. I am not sure by how much. There were a few magazines that ran the testing some few years ago.

 

I've heard this debate about small block and big block pontiacs for years and I just laugh.Most people figure since there's small block chevys,fords,mopars and big block chevys,fords,mopars that pontiac MUST have had them too....How little they really know.From what I know and have seen Pontiac was like a maverick in the engine design dept. They figured they could keep the same case design(and many other parts) throughout the years and reduce the costs to keep the overall price down.Which I think they did quite well given the times.I've heard these motors also called Y-blocks also due to the way they are shaped.Call me crazy but I think for the times they were very competitive and ingenious.Hell just look at the intake design.The runners seperated from the coolant passages to reduce the intake charge and the fact they had a valley cover to keep any heat from the block from reaching the intake.HMMM!!!! Sounds like an Edelbrock Air-gap intake......The only reason the pontiacs aren't able to perform as well as the comp. is the heads(as said earlier in the posts).That can be taken care of by use of alum. heads and the proper setup on them.
I believe GM killed the poncho,buick,olds v8's cuz they didn't like the competition really.Chevy's was just a cheap sucker to work due to the quantity they built and the turn around of reman parts. GM is just cheap ...... I'm reminded everytime I look at the interior of my car.

Personally I'd take a 421SD,428SD,455SD or 400 RAIV Any day over a sbc or bbc.

 

Incorrect.

Dig up the articles, you'll see the same build on both the BBC and SBC 400...the BBC out did it.

Believe the test was run at LACR in a Chevelle, the rag used the same car and swapped engines, the BBC ran .4 or so quicker, without dialing in the carb for the BBC (ran "as-was" setup for the SBC).

Article went on to list cost's, etc, only down side was it ran $400 or so more to build the BBC than the SBC.

 

Really, you read that in a magazine? Wow, which one, tell me more.

Considering the small block 400 NEVER left the factory with more than a 2bbl carb, nor in any real performance model car, nor with any better than smogger mid 70s junk heads, it's kind of a reach to say it outdid the 396/402 BB. Which was available with a 4bbl carb and real heads.

Now which would you bet on. A small block with a 2 bbbl mounted to an iron intake and 150cc intake runner heads and a bathtub combustion chamber and log exhaust manifolds. Or a big block with a 4bbl, aluminum intake, 200ish CC heads and a reasonable exhaust manifold shape.


BTW, if you weren't talking stock for stock then you were even further off. A modified big block has vastly more power potential than any small block could hope to achieve. Much better heads available.

 

I think it's about time for this little joy ride to come to an end. The topic skirts the limits of "tech", we all now know that Chevy did indeed deliver two completely different engines that they called a "400", one being a small block (which was the one closer to actually being 400 cid) and the other being a big block.

What Pontiac did don't much matter unless you like the idea of having a vintage Poncho engine in your Pontiac 3rd gen f-body, and that's discussed in other threads on this and other forums.

So, let's move on to greater things, more in line with the intent of this forum and this board.

Have a nice day