Hi everybody, I posted this in the History forum and wasn't sure if it was the right place, so I'm posting here also.

I need some help quick on making a decision on whether I should buy this car, so any help would be appreciated, I have to make my decision soon, or someone else will end up buying with my luck.

I am checking out its 91 Z28, had an accident on the driver side door so it was painted and paint looks really nice. It has red leather interior, really clean, perfect seats and carpet except for the driver seat, which isn't a problem for me.

However, the owner says even though the vin number and window sticker says it has a 5.0 TPI, it really has a 5.7 because the initial owner did some special order for it, and he showed me a yellow slip stating he got a 5.7 liter. He also said that when he was getting a starter for it, he had problems because it was really a 5.7 not 5.0.

Visually, is there anyway I can tell if it is 5.7 or 5.0? Location of dipstick or anything like that? I really want this car, its almost perfect, except for this one problem.

Also, the speedo has a max speed of 110, isn't that weird? My 86 z28 even had a 140 mph speedo, how would a 91 z28 have a 110 speedo???

Thanks for all your help!

Suke

 

look on the block behind the driver's side head. it will say the size. only sure way of finding out. probably gonna need to move some stuff outta the way.

 

They're all 5.7's haven't you heard?

If you look on the back of the block, close to the car's firewall, on one side you will see an 8 digit casting #. Look that up at mortec.com. You should also see a big, honkin' 5.7 stamped right into the block. If its a 305 you will see a 5.0 instead of a 5.7. That displacement stamping, of course, doesn't necessarily mean that its an LB9 or a L98. Could be any old late model 305 or 350 with a TPI on it.

 

Nice, this should help me out a lot. How can I get access to the block? I can't remove anything since its not my car. I would need to be able to do it on the spot, is it hard? Or would it have to be lifted or something?

Thanks!

 

Look at the back of the block on the driver's side. The numbers are right on top rear of the block. As was mentioned you may have to move stuff to the side to see it. Take a flashlight and a small wire brush to clean any crud off.

 

Another showing the location of the stamping at the rear.

 

my non-scientific method is to locate the oil filler cap and pcv valve on the driver side valve cover.

On the 305, the filler is closer to the firewall than the PCV
On the 350, the filler is _farther from_ the firewall than the PCV

*shrug*

if it's not stock, good luck :P

 

Interesting. I'll have to check that out.

 

Exactly!

 

This is a picture of a L98, isn't the oil filler closer to firewall than PCV?

 

You're gonna have to get your hands a little dirty and check the numbers if you wanna know for sure.........

 

Yea, I gathered all of this info, and I'm going for hardcore 5.7 searching next time I see the car, thanks again for all the help.

If it is a 350, I'll end up buying it, I dont really mind if the VIN or window sticker dont match up or that the RPO stickers are missing, I mean, there isn't anything really to worry about in that area if the car runs good, right?

 

Well, ya, I guess you could put em on either direction - I guess it's random at the factory! I looked more and found a 305 with the filler to the front...

My $.02 on the car though - anyone have thoughts on why the VIN would reflect a 305 if it was special ordered as a 350?

 

What's really got me confused is the 110 mph speedo that is supposedly only suppose to be on convertibles???

 

Ummm... here's a '91 Z28 coupe with a 110 MPH speedo and it's a 305...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6161

I've been staring at these photos and can't visually see any difference .... sigh...

 

I'm fairly sure that's incorrect. Although my car is that way, a friend of mine has an original 305 that is the opposite. I think it may be related to the year rather than the engine size.

edit: Guess I should have finished reading, but yeah.. it was wrong

 

Well, that clears some things up, so if worst comes to worst, it'll be a normal 305... hmm, maybe he'll drop the price 1k? ... but in the end I still wont have a L98 or 5.7

 

I don't think it would. I'm betting its a 305. If its a 350 it was transplanted after it was made, IMO.

If the 8th digit of the VIN is "F", it left the factory with a 305.

 

It is an F!

F for I'm F***'d if I buy it thinking its a 350!!!

Owners brother (who I was dealing with) mentioned the original owner had it special ordered with a reciept from what I think was the dealer, I will check again when I see the car. I remember him showing me a yellow slip with 5.7 liter engine, red leather seats, and some other things written on it.

 

This is intriguing. I guess its possible that the dealer could have done the swap at the buyer's request, but I've never heard of it. 'Course I ain't seen it all.

 

If it was a 305 car with a 350 in it, I wouldn't be losing anything special would I? Did the 350 cars come with certain things that the 305s didnt, other than the 4 wheel discs? Anything that would more accomodate a 350, like suspension parts?

 

4 wheel discs weren't restricted to 350s, they were an option like anything else. Nothing is different.

 

Oh ok, thats good, then this car may have 4 wheel disc also, the window sticker said "Preferred Equipment Group 3" whatever that means.

 

um i think its i'm pretty sure 305 and 350 starters are the same, how would that be hard to find

 

Okay, I did some research in this area, found out starter numbers for USA starters:

305: 6418
350: 3567M

However, I do not know if that 305 number is for all 305s or maybe it is different for TPI 305?

 

Unless your getting some kind of killer deal I would pass and look for something thats not such a mystery. If you ever go to sell it it will be harder to get your $ out o fit if the #s don't match.

 

What would be a good deal on this car? A 91 black Z28 that was repainted after someone hit the driver side door, paint looks great. Engine has 115k miles on it, everything else runs good, some rattling/shaking when hitting bumps though, torn up driver side leather seat, cracked dash.

If it is a 350, what is it worth?
If a 305, what is it worth?

 

hmmm...I have a 305 starter on my caprice 350. However I reused my 305 flexplate on my 350. Maybe thats why. I thought the starters for the l98s and lb9s were the same...hmm Ill check when I get to work. I don't see why they would be different.

 

Oh yea, I remember something else, it was written on the yellow slip I think, or it could have been the window sticker, but it said it had an oil cooler. Is this specific for certain models or was it an option for any model?

 

The oil cooler was part of a performance package or coudl be ordered seperatly I imagine. There are much more Knowledgable poeple on the Camaros then myself as far as what models came with what goodies. I would say a good price for a Z28 thats been in an acciedent repaired has torn up interior numbers don't seem to match, if the body is straight and no rust $1200-1500. You can acquire nicer examples where things are what they appear to be no wrecks no torn up interior maybe needing paint but not to bad for $2500-3000. Bump that up a notch to a lower mileage or freshly painted or rebuilt engine with a real clean interior and you go $3500-$5000. If your paying more than $1500 I think I would keep looking theres just to many question marks, previous accident, needing paint and interior etc. etc.

 

They want around $4k for the car. Paint appears good, repainted 3 years ago, no sign of damage from the accident. It shows signs of regular black paint "wear", like swirls or tiny scratches, its not flawless show paint, but looks like it can be buffed to perfection.

The interior is almost mint, except for the driver seat and dash pad cracks. The rear seats are are perfect, the carpet is perfect, the passenger seat is good. SO, if this were to be a 350 (which I doubt now) would it be worth around $3500, which is what I plan to offer?

They also claim to have replaced the weather stripping for the T-Tops.

 

If it is a 5 speed manual, then either the 350 isn't original or the 5 speed was put in.

You could ONLY get an auto with the 350. The 305 could have an auto or 5 speed.

Look (if you can) at the block under the exhaust manifolds. If its like my 305 and 350 blocks, it should have its displacement (in CI) upside down. On my 350 its right in the middle, passenger side i think. On the 305, its on the driver's side near the front.

I could be wrong about that though.

 

Take it to an unbiased mechanic or shop. Owners should have no issues with this whatsoever. Pay a small amount (if any) for the mechanic to check it over for deficiencies. The shop can verify if it is a 350.


I know of one GTA trans am that came with a 5 speed 305 (only way to get the 5-speed)...where the dealer swapped the engine to the 350 for the customer. 350 powered 5-speed, just not factory done. Not sure if he was allowed to maintain the warranty, though. If done by the dealer you would hope the injectors would be changed to 22#/hr and the ECU prom would be switched for the correct one.

 

Its an automatic. Any idea on the value of the car?

 

I bought a 91 Z28 about 6 weeks ago with 148K miles on it. It's a 350 car, loaded (no T-Tops), 4 wheel disc, performance axle.. The car is in decent shape for a Michigan car 12 years old with this kind of mileage (read : surface body and chasis rust, minor rust through is typical location).

I paid $2,000 for it
I had a "motivated" seller - he was 22, the second owner, had it 3 months and got 8 points on his liscense...

I've put about another $2k into it to replace all the suspension, the rear discs (which were shot), the catalytic converters, 4 new tires, fix a couple oil leaks, fix the hatch and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff. It's easily worth $4k now, but half of the car is new now

I wouldn't buy a used car for that much, but I don't mind putting time and money into it myself.

If it is a 350, and you like the condition, and want the car, then its worth whatever you're willing to part with.

 

That just means you saw a 350 once where somebody put the driver's side valve cover on backwards. That unfotunate motor could very easily have had mystery valve train noise, too; from the push rod end of the rocker hitting the inside of the valve cover, because the 2 sides of the VC (intake side & exhaut side) are sloped differently.

The factory doesn't put 350 valve covers on backwards.

People swap motors all the time. "F" in the VIN is not proof that the motor that's in the car is a 305, just as "8" isn't proof that it's a 350. The ONLY WAY TO KNOW FOR SURE is to look at the block's casting number. It's relatively difficult to fake that.

 

Wow, I would never think it would cost that much. Of the problems you listed this car seems to need mufflers, rear tires, and needs to have an oil leak fixed.

However, I am not good at judging whether suspension needs work or not. What should I look for? If I am going to end up spending a lot of money on suspension, I don't want to pay too much for the car.

 

Well, atually, it means I have seen quite a number of them like this, including my own. It does not exhibit the problems you describe. Don't believe me, find some 91's on cardomain and check.

Not all of that $2k was suspension. Rear brakes had to be completely replaced - calipers, lines, etc. - Est ~$350 - 4 news tires ~$460. New cat system was $300. Front steering components ~$310... and all the little things add up... (for instance, I had to buy every fluid for the car as we were doing the rear diff, removing the radtiator, the brakes, and doing an oil change)..

If the steering is sloppy/loose or the ride "floats" in the front, expect to have work done there... This is where it helps to have a friend as a mechanic who can give you an unbiased opinion. Oh, and whatever you budget for repairs, add 50-100%

 

Well I think this car has been babied SOMEWHAT, since it was in the garage when I went to see it, also a female driver.

Steering was tight like in a C4 vette (could be lack of steering fluid?), though brakes were terrible, probably because of no rear disc brakes?

 

To answer your original inquiry, you can check this thread and FAQ Board:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=209426

The rest of this thread seems academic. As with any vehicle, a potential buyer must weigh the positives and negatives that accompany the vehicle, understand the average market value, then determine if the car is average, better, or worse, and offer accordingly.

If the owner is offering the car as a "350" and you find it isn't the case, either the owner is misrepresenting that (and possibly many other things about the vehicle) and/or doesn't have a clue about what the car really is. In either case, beware. There is little that any of us can tell you that is specific to this vehicle over any other.