crazeinc

Hey guys, I was reading another no start post and RB stated that if the Choke light isn't on when you turn the key to the on position the battery or alt won't know that the system has charge.

Well, low and behold, I don't have a choke light anymore (I do remember at one point having it come on). I checked the bulb, and it's good, so I traced the wires coming from it to find a potential problem. I followed it all the way to a black box of sorts and on it were the labels Hazard and Horn and some other thing I'm not sure of. Well, there's nothing connected to the box, so I just realized why my Hazard lights and Horn don't work

It looks like a few devices just plug into it, will doing so make the choke light come on and hopefully get the rest of my electrical problems sorted out?
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One more completely unrelated electrical problem:

I removed my interior and I've being trying to sort out the wiring for the problem above and I installed my power window and hatch switches just for fun to see if something actually worked. Well now when I try to roll down the windows or pop the hatch, I just just get buzzing. The relays buzz as well as the motors themselves. I also plugged in my radio to see if that would work, and the speakers were all static.

It seems like there's a little gremlin in this wiring somewhere. Anyone have any idea?

Thanks.

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The '82Z
Hugger Orange
383 4 bolt main
3000 lbs
Bad cornering
NOS Sportsman Fogged
10 bolt braker

Coming to a street near you in the spring...
The car's website

crazeinc

I realize this is a pain in the a$$, but I really could use some help.

Apeiron

Sounds like the choke relay is missing.

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1984 Camaro Z28 Astral Silver w/ 2 1/2" cowl induction hood
Engine: Decked 383 cid 4 bolt w/ oil cooler, 9.6:1 compression, ARP fasteners, 600 cfm Performer carburetor, Torker II intake, Performer RPM Heads, XE268H cam, Magnum roller tip rockers, MSD6AL ignition, Blaster2 coil, recurved HEI distributor
Exhaust: Terminator headers, Custom 3" TIG welded stainless exhaust, Twister muffler
Transmission: 4L60 w/ Corvette servo, .500 boost valve, TransGo 7-CS clutch springs, 700 PKH pump rings, 700-2 reprogramming kit, Borg-Warner High-Energy frictions & bands, 2400 RPM lockup torque converter
Drivetrain: 2.73:1 limited-slip Dana 44 w/ disc brakes
Tires: Front P225/50VR15 Rear P265/50VR15 Eagles

RB83L69

OK one at a time...

You say the radio has nothing but static; does the display work? If not, then there's no battery being fed to it via the small orange wire that plugs into a connector all by itself. IIRC that's on the interior light circuit. If that's hooked up and the dome light doesn;t work either, then there's a blown fuse.

The whole charging circuit is kind of bizarre. It's interlocked with the choke wiring, such that the choke will not get power unless the alternator is working; that way, the choke won't be fooled by leaving the key in "On". If memory serves me right, there's switched 12V on one side of the bulb, and the other side of the bulb goes to the choke relay and the alternator, via the brown wire that goes to the terminal of its plug-in connector that's closer to the big output terminal. When the key is on and the alternator is sitting still, current flows through the light bulb and then out to the alternator and through the diode trio to the armature and then to ground, which lights the light bulb. The relay coil is across the connection to the alternator, so it has only a volt or 2 across it under this condition so it doesn't pull in so the choke gets no power. Then when the motor is running, the current from the bulb is enough to create enough of a magnetic field to cause the alternator to produce useful output when the engine RPM gets above 1500 or so, which is why as you may have noticed the voltmeter will stay down low when you first start the motor, but then jumps up to where it belongs when the RPMs get high enough.

It also sounds like you may not have at least one of the ground wires hooked up.

Where is this black box? The choke light wire should go to the "convenience center", which is a little tray sort of thing that is above the gas pedal, right behind the edge of the dash. It also has the ALDL on it. Exactly what year and kind of car do you have?

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."

crazeinc

Thanks for the help so far RB...I'm still trying to soak up all that you explained, but the black box I was referring to is the convience center that you mentioned.

Behind the choke light is a massive plug that has probably 8 different wires coming to it and the majority (if not all, it's wrapped in electrical tape) go to this convience center. There is nothing attached to this convience center so I assume that is part of the problem.

I have an '82 Z28 and there is no more computer control. I'm running a mechanical dist and carb and so I yanked out the computer. I think in the process of doing so, that is when I screwed up all this other stuff, but it wasn't this bad until just recently.

Thanks.

oh yea, there is static, but the display on the unit does work. I also wanted to mention that I have an electric water pump and electric fan that I have hooked up to a pair of switches and when I flip those as well they also make the buzzing sound. The only place those are connected to the rest of the electrical system is the fusebox, so it seems like something large is malfunctioning for everything to be buzzing like this.

Thanks again.

RB83L69

OK.

The choke relay and a bunch of the connections for the alternator are on the "convenience center". I don't have my 83 schematic in front of me, but I'd bet that it would work a whole lot better if that was hooked up. You might want to start there. Also, at least one of the ground wires is supposed to be under a screw that's not far from there, near the steering column.

In the process of de-computerizing the car, there is very little that has to be done to anything other than the computer and its parts. Absolutely zero wires have to be cut; nothing to do with any worthwhile functional part of the car has to be disturbed. Its entire wiring harness is completely separate from the rest of the car (charging, gauges, lights, etc.). The correct way to remove it would be to start at the big bundle that comes out of the right fender well, and unplug every wire that goes to a sensor, and peel the harness out of there; then pull the inner fender well; from there, you can see how the harness has a large square plstic thing on it where it goes through the body shell into the cabin. There are very few connections from that harness to the rest of the car; ignition, a couple of feeds of fused battery, the SES light, and maybe a ground, that's it. It is not necessary to touch any other wiring to remove the computer.

So, start by making sure that the computer wiring is GONE, without cutting anything; then make sure that everything else is plugged in, and that all the grounds are hooked up.

The massive plug you describe should be the one that plugs in the whole instrument cluster. If you take off the bezel (about 10 or 12 torx screws) and then take off the 2 nuts in the lower corners of the cluster, and pull the cluster out and unhook the speedo cable, you can see how everything hooks up. Also, it's much easier to work on alot of that from the top, by taking off the dash pad and the speakers and the heater ducts, than to lay up under there and try to work over your head laying on your back.

You may find that one of the fusible links at the starter is burned up - have you checked those yet? There are 2 big red wires that each have a fusible link which both go to one big ring terminal and hook up with the battery cable; if one of those is bad, about half the car's electrical system won't work, and the other half will act real strange.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."

crazeinc

OK.

I didn't realize those fusible links existed so I'll definetly look at those.

I'll also run to the junkyard one of these days and see if I can replace the wiring that was mistakenly removed.

As far as the wiring harness to all the sensors to the silver box, I got rid of all of that a long time ago.

I also removed the heater and the ducting so I have a lot of access under there.

I guess why I got confused is because there was a bundle of wires running from the ecm to the instrument panel that I never figured out what they did until now I guess, so once I get everything hooked back up the convience center and check those links I should be a whole lot better off.

Thanks RB.

crazeinc

just my luck...someone conviently placed a metal sheath around those red wires so now I have to cut it off to get to the fuseable links because that sheath won't budge...oh well.

Update: I checked the hatch and power window switches again tonight and they work like a charm. I haven't checked anything else, but I have no idea why it's working now. The only thing I did was let the battery charge all night. Maybe they just didn't have the power to do it?

[This message has been edited by crazeinc (edited December 19, 2000).]