I see the most popular around here is the ZZ4. or other aftermarket engines.. but I dont understand, like jegs for instance, all the 350's they ahve their, in the description is says for cars older then 73'. cuz they arent smog legal? what would I have to do to make an engine pass smog?

 

well,

1. you don't have to order an engine from jegs, for instance, you can go to your local GM parts center and buy pretty much any crate motor GM sells, and don't have to pay shipping.

2. a new motor will create less emissions simply based upon the fact that it is..... well new. the vavle guides don't leak, the piston rings are good and sealed, everything is how it is supposed to be.

3. a lot of people on this board live where emissions are not manditory, so its not an issue.

4. some states, or counties, don't really do a thorough visual inspection on the car, and assuming you have a catalytic converter, and your motor isn't too wild (which a crate motor wouldn't be) you should fly right though the sniffer test.

5. and for those that are blessed with california emissions. smog legal headers, a smog legal intake manifold, and either fuel injection, or a smog legal carb. and then all the E.O. stickers to go along with it.

don't let emissions scare you out of a new motor, you might just find it easier to pass after.

 

so basically I can just pick up just about any engine can pass california smog if you just make sure all the parts on it are smog legal, and i get a smog pump etc..?

 

I've wondered if smog inspectors are advised to look at the dipstick location as a tipoff as to whether a block is stock or not. It's that sort of stuff that really matters when you're being tested, know what I mean?? LOL

 

so basically I can buy that zz4, throw the smog crap on it, and it will pass?

 

mmm, no... Probably wont have much of a chance passing without some tuning. The cam in there isnt too bad duration wise but its way far from stock. There is also the small issue of the high compression. Youll definatly want to have the egr fully functional and set up to come on at the right times or it may fail NOx. Id get the car smogged before doing the swap so at least you have a grace period to get the efi dialed in. Even my goodwrench with the 50 state legal cam ran dirty as hell before i tuned it.

 

There might be more to it than just throwing it in.
Are you getting the long block or short block?
The exhaust crossovers and head bolt pattern are something that would have to be looked into.
I'd say that the zz4 is a motor that could be made to pass but there might be some minor complications. Someone else will have to tell you the specifics on this, I haven't been there personally.

 

Also, there's a good book called 'the TPI swappers guide' ...I think. I can't find my copy, but I think it's an HP book, it ought to be easy to find. It will be helpful I'm sure.
Another good idea might be to call TPIS, whenever i've called there, they've been very helpful. They're familiar with the zz4 motor and they could tell you exactly what you need to know to make it an easy swap, and sell you a "kit" to make it all work. Probably a set of injectors, a FPR, and a chip that would give you good performance and be smog legal too.
Then you'll be stoked on your new motor!

 

good fact is if u start buying that crap, keep all the records of your purchases cause I know here in Ohio, if u pay/have so much money n proof u spent it, they will wavier it for emissions for a year i believe...

i had to do that one year

 

I passed with a 350 TPI no smog no egr LT4 cam superram and TF heads with no problem.

 

Hes in california, though. The emmissions laws there are very stringent.

 

well then does anyone know of any 50 state legal crate engines i can buy that will put out 300+hp

 

Cal is where I'm from too.
Tailpipe test, make sure that all the factory equipment is connected, and be sure that any aftermarket parts that show are CARB approved. Thats all there is to it. With a fresh engine, it'll pass. Tell em the engine's stock.
They won't give tou a polygraph test or anything like that.

 

I dont feel im getting a straight answer.. your talking about interogations.. wtf they never ask questions when i got my car smogged.. all i want to know is, when i put in a zz4, with the smog equipment attached, will it pass emmissions test?

 

with the right cam, low octance gas, a additive in the gas (like dry gas, alcohol, etc)

you shouldnt have a problem...

my carbed 355, with everything u see in the sig will pass it...

and yes thats why i said here in ohio, i dont know what ca smog is like.

 

do you understand cali smog laws?

 

Yes. There're pretty much the same as Colorado's, and I came from CA before moving to CO (Colorado was harder to pass when I first got here than it was in CA). California has an "engine change" referee process that CO doesn't have, which can actually make it easier to pass with a different engine.

Aluminum heads will set off an aware inspector. Paint the whole thing black, that will help avoid the interegation.

ZZ4 doesn't have exhaust cross-over passages, so a stock 3rd gen EGR won't function. But, the cam on the ZZ4 tended to keep NOx emissions down.

I passed here last month with flying colors, even with all the mods. They checked my underhood stickers since the VIN said "V6 2.8l" and it was obviously a V8 (although that didn't phase them the 1st two times) and had been modified with aftermarket parts. I made sure any aftermarket part had the CARB sticker in plain sight.

 

while searching around i found this

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...61&prmenbr=361

5hp less
15tq less
700 dollars cheaper


any cons to this engine before I buy it, the best part is, it isnt recommended for pre emmissions vehicles so It will pass smog without problem.

 

That motor looks like it set up for race...however, it has a mild cam so it might work for you. I would keep looking if I were you though. If you already have a 350 did you consider a re-build? What kind of engine do you have in their now? Carb or Fuel injected? The motor you show is going to be considered pre '73 like you said for the others. You can also look into Jasper reman. engines. A lot of people say good things about those and they offer a great warranty.

Jasperengines.com

http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=128&pid=105

http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=120&pid=115

 

i have the current 305 with TBI setup

I will switch to TPI if i have to.

that caprice engine doesnt have any ratings for hp or tq.

im want a minimum of 300hp / 300tq that is still emmissions legal.

 

O.K, then forget that caprice engine cuz those heads suck. 300 hp at the wheels is take some money though man and a lot of tuning. You could probably get that with the zz4

 

If you buy a ZZ4 motor it would probably pass the tailpipe test. BUT a ZZ4 isn't a CARB legal swap for your year.

 

On second thought, call the DMV and get the # for the smog referee and have him explain to you what's legal or not. That's what I had to do. And you should be able to figure it out on your own, from there.
You'll probably end up getting a ZZ4 short block, and a set of CARB legal heads for the year your car was made.
If you're frustrated now, prepare yourself to get REALLY frustrated.

 

That engine has no provisions for egr since it has the vortec heads. Youll have to plumb a line, which will definatly give away the game. Im not sure if the zz4 heads have egr or not but the vortecs definatly dont. The real bottom line is that youll either have to check to see what is exacly legal for you to do, or youll have to make it visibly look like a 305, which isnt too hard. Jsut about every part thats on your present engine, including the intake, can be fitted onto the newer and older style heads so long as there not vortecs. Just as long as it doesnt have a really loud exaust and it appears completly stock in appearence and color and passes emmisions, they probably wont question you. After all, they have no way of knowing whats inside so long as you dont tell them. The big trick will probably be getting it to pass emmisions with the efi. Youll definatly want to make learning ecm tuning one of your first steps since the tuning will be a major part of passing emmisions.

 

why cant this be easy. I would just like a website i can view that says "small block 350" passes emmissions. 300hp!

why oh why?

can i just buy a new ls1 or something and put that it since those engines are newer and pass smog.

 

You can put in an LT1, legally. That would be killer! There's a site on ebay that sells LT1 engine/ tranny sets. You could get a T56 that way, I'd love one of those.
If an LS1 fits you could do that too.
The interrogation thing that someone mentioned is what will happen if an inspector notices something that looks like it shouldn't be there. He'll say, "what's this"? And you'll have to show him a CARB sticker for that part.

 

because you live in california.

before you make a hastly decision buying an engine, do a little research as to what your getting, and what you need to pass emissions.

just asking people on the message board isn't going to be everything you need. start using the "search" button at the top of the screen. you will find more answers there, than anywhere else. call some places in california that do emissions testing, like one of the more private shops. get a guy on the phone and pick his brain.

your other problem is, your looking at nothing but crate engines, and your looking at nothing except how much HP they claim the engine makes.

you overlooked the base 350HO that makes "330hp" because you saw the engine you posted the link for above that makes "350hp".

they are both the SAME ENGINE. one has a bigger oil pan, and roller rockers.

thats about it.

if your worried about smog don't go the crate engine route.

go get a 350 block, and build a nice strong short block.

if you don't feel comfortable doing that, buy a short block from somewhere for about $1,500.

stick in a decent sized cam, that is still small enough to get through emissions. get a pair of cylinder heads that DO have a EGR passage, there are lots out there. get a Edelbrock or Holley emissions legal intake manifold, or go with tpi, get a set of hooker 2250 headers that are emissions legal with the air hookups. get a nice high flow cat, and a cat back, and be done with it.

you'd have about 350hp, at the the flywheel, and get through california smog just fine.

theres plenty of options out there. but don't expect to be able to click one button for "350hp that will pass emissions" theres more research and work involved.

 

I agree with what scottland said.
There pretty much isn't any such thing as a crate engine that you can buy that's a 350 HP replacement for a factory 305 TBI, thay's 50 state legal.
In Cal. you have to do some DIY'ing to make it happen.
The cool thing is you can build a better engine than you can buy.

 

ok so lets make a deal, when i get hold of a block, I will post for help and you all will help me build my first engine? deal?

 

You're going for a short block?
If so... Good choice.
I'll help as much as I can without getting my hands dirty.
Still you should call a smog ref. just to acquaint yourself with the rules, that way you can figure out how to work within the rules and still do what you need to do.

 

short block .. yes.. because i hear 350's bolt right into camaro's

Ill just get the block first then Ill come here one part at a time asking what is the best way to go.

 

How much $$ were you planning on spending?

 

I have my limit set to about 4-5 grand.

and I have a second question, since I guess i am building my first engine now (lol) I guess i should make it a 383 stroker. more power correct?

and correct me if i am wrong, but i need to bore a 350, .030 over and fit it with a 400 crankshaft correct?

 

A stroker is an option.
You still have to figure out what short block you're getting. There might be a 350 short block that would be 100% legal, and i'm sure that a 383 wouldn't be. ...Best to keep things simple for now. So think 350 for now.
Call the smog ref tomorrow, the DMV will give you the #.
Tell him that your car needs a new engine and ask what your options are. Tell him you want a 350. I'm pretty sure that the 89s offered a 350 as an option. Ask if you can use a ZZ4 shortblock, just to see what he says. Tell him that you're going to buy some CARB approved heads for whatever short block you get.
Let me know what he tells you.
It's a game, the rules can be confusing.
4-5 thou is plenty of $$ to work with.
Yes a 383 is a +.030 350 with a 400 crank.

 

thanks! I will call tomorrow and post back here, so dont think about ditching this thread yet! lol

and since im hecka getting into this now, and if i decide to build my own 350 instead (yes plenty of 89 camaros came with 350's)

which of these two heads would you recomend (ignore the prices)

both are 50 state legal

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...49&prmenbr=361

#350-60759



http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...41&prmenbr=361

#955-042670-1

 

You'll probably want to go with aluminum, but that kinda depends on which block you get.
The reason I'm saying call the smog ref is cause when you're done, you'll need to call someone and have them burn a chip for you. And since that's the case, it will be good to have a motor that's kinda close to stock.
Yours is a TBI, right?

 

it is tbi , but I was thinking of going pure fuel injection and converting to TPI.

also wanted to add a supercharger in the far future. do superchargers require high or low compression? because if they need high compressions, i should go with lower cc heads like 50cc correct? or for low compressions i should stay with the 70cc+ heads?

 

There aren't any TBI 350s made that year so TPI is what you'll need to get it through smog.
Superchargers take lower comp but if you do that it won't be that fast without one.
Let's see what the smog guy sez first.
Has your car been smog tested recently?

 

yes i smogged it about 4 weeks ago. it passed flying colors.

and lower compression makes a slower engine but better for a supercharger, but a higher compression makes a faster engine but weak *** supercharger? then i guess i want high compression unless the low compression + supercharger is gonna make mucho more power then a high compression engine. correct? and 88TBI4x4, thanks for your tremendous help. I really appreciate it.

 

That's a good thing.
I don't know much about superchargers, if you think you want to do that you'll have to do some searches before you buy anything.
maybe there's a way you can put one on with stock compression.
I'm outa here... It'll be interesting to find out what the smog ref sez.

 

I just had a thought, Maybe these guys could fix you up. They have all the stuff you need and it's all smog legal too. That would simplify things.http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html

 

.

 

edelbrock are expensive! I think I will stick with building a low comp. engine with a roots 142 blower (anyone have the link to the 142 blower on the summit site? I cant find it)

 

With a set os 67cc AFR's onnit your 305 would have the right CR for blower, you could put your TBI on top of that. Might be legal too.
Or you could build a 427 and put your TBI and a blower on there too.
Just tell em it's a stocker when you go through smog.

[url]http://www.badasscars.com/engines.html
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