I finally got the crank and pistons into my new engine today and I was just wondering what you think is the average amount of torque that should be required to turn the assembly. I was getting about 25 ft/lbs. Does this sound ok?

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Riccioli Performance Motorworks

--RPM Racing--

-Currently building first ever engine. 383 with Super Ram plenum and runners, Edelbrock lower intake, Bosch 24# injectors, either AFR or Trick Flow heads, MSD ignition.
-Will be installing Baer Brakes
-Will be installing full Spohn suspension in rear
-Art Carr 700R4 trans??


***** Flyby: (n) When you let off the throttle after beating a ***** Racer by a few car lengths and he then blows by you in an attempt to convince you he really won the race.

 

Yes, that sounds pretty typical. I guess you got the whole rod binding thing worked out; what did that turn out to be?

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."

 

Paul,

If everything is lubed for assembly, and the rings are fresh in nicely cross-hatched bores, the torque is a lot higher than you might expect. I've never checked with a torque wrench (I don't know why not - it would be good to know) but 25 lb/ft doesn't sound excessive.

In a similar vein, what did you ever determine on the rod clearance problem?

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Later,
Vader
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"I cannot take this any more... Saying everything I've said before..."
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0

 

Sounds ok to me. It is not what I would consider excessive.

Maybe Engineboy would actually have a clear answer for ya.

As for what the prob was, I think he had a crank that required chamfered bearings rather than standard ones.


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"Harnessed Evil can indeed be used for Good, however the corruption that inevitably takes place forges a more sinister and chaotic Evil that far outweighs the good intended at inception. Thus are the first steps toward the chasm of the Dark Side."

-Me

 

Well if you guys have been reading all of my posts you will know it's been an ongoing saga of problems. First I didn't know that I had to clearance the pan rails and bottom of the cylinder bores so that stumped me. Then I had to have the pistons sent out TWICE to have the skirts cut. Then I ran into the problem with the chamferred bearings. Even after that I had a binding problem and it took me two weeks to figure it out. While the piston skirts were being cut the machinist got the end caps mixed up and I didn't realize it. So now everything seems ok. I installed my cam today and I don't think I have any clearance problems with that.....wow I caught a break for once. I was going to have a friend degree it for me, but he says it's probably not necessary. Opinions on that one? Thanks


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Riccioli Performance Motorworks

--RPM Racing--

-Currently building first ever engine. 383 with Super Ram plenum and runners, Edelbrock lower intake, Bosch 24# injectors, either AFR or Trick Flow heads, MSD ignition.
-Will be installing Baer Brakes
-Will be installing full Spohn suspension in rear
-Art Carr 700R4 trans??


***** Flyby: (n) When you let off the throttle after beating a ***** Racer by a few car lengths and he then blows by you in an attempt to convince you he really won the race.

 

What kind of cam is it?

Most of the time, all you're doing by degreeing is quality control for the mfr. All you can do with the info you get is either install the cam at its design center or somewhat advanced or retarded, or send it back. I rarely bother with degreeing one myself, because I use new cams and have them ground the way I want them by grinders I can trust. It's really not a necessity.

That bites about the rod caps... are they not marked? Also, what ever cam of the oil spit holes? I don't think I've ever seen any large journal rods that had those, only old 283s and 327s with small journals.

For your next build, make a point of marking the rods & caps with a punch before you tear the old motor down if they're not done already, that way they can't screw you up.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."

 

i've degreed quite a few cams and they were always where the cam card said they were. it never hurt to check.

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ICON Motorsports
1st & 3rd

 

The cam is from Comp whom I would think is pretty reliable with their grinds. As far as the rod caps getting mixed up, it's because I had two sets that were stamped 8, two sets stamped 7, two blank sets, and a 3 and 1 set. Damn fool put them back on the wrong ones and didn't bother checking them with a bore gauge!!
Anyways I have a few more q's if you guys don't mind. First of all the lifters that were in the 87 block I'm using seem like they are solid rollers if I remember correctly, but aren't our engines hyrdaulic rollers? I have to look at them better for oil holes. How much pressure would it take to compress one of these lifters? Also for where the mechanical fuel pump would hook up in the front of the block, we just have a block off plate right?


------------------
Riccioli Performance Motorworks

--RPM Racing--

-Currently building first ever engine. 383 with Super Ram plenum and runners, Edelbrock lower intake, Bosch 24# injectors, either AFR or Trick Flow heads, MSD ignition.
-Will be installing Baer Brakes
-Will be installing full Spohn suspension in rear
-Art Carr 700R4 trans??


***** Flyby: (n) When you let off the throttle after beating a ***** Racer by a few car lengths and he then blows by you in an attempt to convince you he really won the race.

 

Well I'm glad to hear that you got it worked out, I know how frustrating it can be to get stuck on something so trivial but hard to diagnose.

They should be hyd lifters if they're stock. But solids will have an oil hole too, after all there's got to be a way to oil the rockers through the pushrods. If they still have oil in them they may feel fairly solid. If they're dry, they should take no more than 5 lbs to push in the valve, and probably alot less than that.

Yes, there should be only a blockoff plate.

When do you anticipate having it installed and operating?

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."

[This message has been edited by RB83L69 (edited January 12, 2001).]

 

It would be odd to find solid rollers in such an engine; I built mine from a 1987 block and I am fairly certain that hydraulic lifters were standard equipment in that year for all engines, roller or tappet. It is my understanding that solid rollers are generally reserved for use with very aggressive cams. When you apply pressure to the socket in the top of the lifter, it will depress what I would guess to be 0.05"-0.1". It takes maybe 10-15 pounds of force to accomplish this. I made sure my lifters were primed by immersing them in oil and gently depressing and releasing the piston with an old pushrod. You are correct about the fuel pump plate - I just bolted it on with a new gasket and a generous amount of silicone. You should be able to identify the hydraulic lifters pretty easily - they have a distinctly separate socketed piston on top, a square wire retaining clip that goes inside the lifter cylinder on top of the piston, and an oil hole in the center of the pushrod socket. I believe that there are two holes in flats on the lifter body which are exposed to the lifter oil galleries which pass around the lifter bores. Hope this helps. Good luck with your engine - should be a hell of a powerplant. I know what you mean with the machine work - it can be a pain in the *** dealing with someone who doesn't appreciate your interest in doing the job right. Kind of makes me wish I could procure a whole machine shop and just run it myself, sometimes.

 

Thanks guys I'll have to take another look at those lifters tomorrow. I expect to have the engine and trans in as well as the brakes, suspension and paint by the summer of next year.

 

It's true......they were solid lifters in the engine that I got as my donor block. I have no idea why, but they were. Go figure. Anyways I was at the machine shop today using the Desktop Dyno software and for the combo I'm running it projected 400 hp and 481 ft/lbs of torque and the program didn't even have a provision for me to put in the specs for the Super Ram so those numbers are theoretically for a regular TPI setup!!

------------------
Riccioli Performance Motorworks

--RPM Racing--

-Currently building first ever engine. 383 with Super Ram plenum and runners, Edelbrock lower intake, Bosch 24# injectors, either AFR or Trick Flow heads, MSD ignition.
-Will be installing Baer Brakes
-Will be installing full Spohn suspension in rear
-Art Carr 700R4 trans??


***** Flyby: (n) When you let off the throttle after beating a ***** Racer by a few car lengths and he then blows by you in an attempt to convince you he really won the race.