What's involved in making one? Got the block already. Is it just a crank and 5.7 inch rods? or can I use 6in rods? Do I need new psitons or will the stock ones work ok. I'm rebuilding the heads putting in roller tip rockers, hydralic comp cam. I'm not sure what cc heads to get but I will decide that after I decide the trouble it will be to make a stroker.

 

You can use either 5.700 or the 6 in rods, stock pistions will not work in either case. There is a small amount of the block pan rail that needs to be clearanced(removed) so the rods clear, Its not a big deal. You can use a 400 crank and turn the mains to 350 std spec. Ballancing is highly reccomended, as the 400 crank is not set up for the longer rods and different pistions.

 

You should just get a rotating assembly from Scat or some other manufacturer. They will send you crank, rods, pistons, rings, bearings, and some are even balanced. Most even have options for a balancer and flexplate that are balanced with the rest of the stuff. It is easier this way as opposed to trying to machine an old crank and piece together everything else. IMO.

 

Ye, get a kit if you are starting with nothing internal anyway. They are pretty inexpensive. Helped my brother with his and only issue we had was the standard base circle cam from comp cams wouldn't clear the rod cap bolts. So he got a small base circle one and that worked. But I think there are kits with rod caps that alow the cam to clear.

 

but looking to do the same.. i found this kit online while researching engine stoking...
Do you guys feel like this is a good combo for the price??http://motorworksengines.theshoppe.com/chevy_383_stroker_rotating_assembly_split_seal.html

 

i'd dman near think if you have to ask it may not be the best engine to start with. it's not hard to do, but like a lot of other things you have to keep your eyes open and pay attention.

 

I'm gonna agree with getting the kit. I just built a 383 from scratch and with all the money I spent, could have got a kit ready to go. Cause your gonna need a lot of stuff. Crank, pistons, balancer, flywheel, and a new starter cause the 400 flywheel is too big. Machine work is another biggy. Figure die grinding the oil pan rail, balancing, blue printing(recommended) and depending on cam size, grinding down the rods. Anyways thats just my two cents.

 

Just so you know the definition of blueprininting is nothing more than a working design combo. In other words a matching camshaft and components that work together that has been tested to give optimal performance.

 

shaggy that might work for you but to me a blueprinted engine is one built to a set of specs or within a set of tolorances, not just a bunch of randomly assembled parts.

 

No Im not kidding thats the definition of blueprining an engine. When race car engine builders build engine they build them on a working blueprint that is reproduced to give a similar product. Where in anything I stated did i say randomly put together parts? As far as the parts being in tolerance thats a gimme and should be done in any case. My response was only to clear up the definition as I know not many people know what bluepriniting an engine is. I never stated that blueprinting an engine should not be something that should be done.

 

I've never heard it described that way before. Most shops around here mean they are gonna make sure your .030 pistons fit in you .030 cylinder bores, that you crank is in tight tolerance to what it is ground to, your deck is perfectly flat, ect..........

Now I know different shops are more or less extreme than others with what they condider blueprinting.

Maybe there are two different meanings between machine shops and corporate owned race teams. That is possible.

 

Blueprinting an engine is when an engine builder makes sure every part is measured. Then they make the parts match the measurements. THis means that an engine builder measures every set of rod bearings inside and out and then matches the measurements to the rods that they most closely match. It also means making sure that all parts match the specifications for that particular part, ie. all rod big ends measure within the specs for that particular rod. If they do not measure up they are discarded or used for a stock engine rebuild. Assembling an engine with parts that are tested together to produce the most power is not blueprinting.

 

One more thing, not every engine is blueprinted. Maybe they should be, but they are not. Stock rebuilds and factory motors are not blueprinted, unless you specifically request it. Check out Scoggin-Dickey Chevrolet. They sell a ZZ4 short block and they sell a ZZ4 Blueprinted short block. There is also a pretty good price difference between the two. Blueprinting is a painstakingly time consuming, pain in the butt. This is why engine builders charge you so much to blueprint your engine. Please do more investigation before making such broad sweeping statements.:rockon:

 

shaggy you need to research what blueprinted means just a bit more. what you're saying is exactily a bunch or randomly assembled parts that are not measured. it's funny you mentioned not many people know what blueprinting an engine is. it's funny because you're one of them that doesn't know.

 

Man you guys are off the deep end. I read this from a racing builders engine book. I make no claims to this statement.

Here is an exact excerpt from teh article.

This exact statement is what I was refering to:

In other words, it is an engine built to some plan rather than one taken in with the directions, “see how much you need to clean up the cylinders and tell me what size pistons to order”. In its most basis sense, a blueprinted engine is any engine built to a plan.

But of course a race car engine builder wouldnt know anything
about this.

Not only this why do you guys keep twisting my words. Just because I said performance does not mean more power. Look up the word performance. So to conclude what I have said yes to create a blueprinted engine you would require certain tolerances or what have you. But the basic idea is its something built to a plan or a specific design that works to get the best potential of the blueprinted engine. Do you think when they blueprint an engine they just make up a bunch of tolerances they hope will work. No they follow a plan or design. So stating that they blueprint an engine by specific tolerances is wrong in general. Its about improving on the existing tolerances to a plan to create a blueprinted engine thus making it perform better or longer. Im done with this thread and you kids. To defend myself please highlight exactly where I said anything about putting togther mismatched parts. Are you sure your reading the right thread?

 

sounds like more than I am interested in getting into. I kinda figured It was gonna be more than just crank and rods etc. Thanks for the info guys. It sounds like something I want to do just not at this point in time. I'll probably just do a slightly beefed up rebuild and save the cash for a road monster later.

 

Sorry Fei, your post got hijacked. I didn't mean to start a war. DO NOT abandon your 383 dream, because I will tell you right now it was well worth it. The raw unadulterated power from the stroker is unmatched if you ask me. I had it dynoed the other day and at the flywheel I've got 464.5 HP and 547 lbs. of torque. Not bad for $2800, and trust me I spared no expense when I built it. All top of the line stuff.

Now, for the rest of you. The last time I checked blueprinting is matching exact tolerances to spec. Thats what all the machinest around here now it as. Thats how they described it on Hot Rod TV. I remember cause they were working on a 502 BBC and showed step by step what they do. Shaggy put down the crack pipe dude.

 

I suggest you stop reading things in portions or what you hear and go buy a book on blueprinting engines. This section seems full of kids who dont know how to have a discussion other than to insult each other. I originally answered this thread on my lunch break so I didnt have time for an in depth description. I answered it from a racing article the way it was explained in general. Say whatever you want to say about the subject but to flat out insult people over it is just plain childish.

 

shaggy i suggest you stop reading so many books and pick up a wrench and a mic and actually blueprint and assemble an engine. if you insist on reading books you might want ot look in to a course on reading comprehension. i was 45 years old last week if that makes me a kid great if not oh well. i'd damn near bet i've been wrenching on SBCs and engine in general longer than you've been around

 

In its most simple form, blueprinting an engine means ....

measuring / checking everything and writing it all down

This is never a given as shaggy has said. Most builders do not measure everything and write it down. It is only the serious big dollar motors that usually get this treatment. Yes, you can blueprint a motor and build it to stock specifications. Yes, you can blueprint a performance motor that is highly modified. It just means that every clearance is measured and written down. There's several books out there solely dedicated to blueprinting motors. Most of these manuals have nice templates in the back for logging all your information.

Also - and this is very important - you can blueprint a motor that has a set of mismatched parts. It has been done many times because of people not undertanding how to put together a good combination. You can still blueprint a bad plan.

Tim

 

I worked in a machine shop for years, building all sorts of stuff. The only person I see who doesnt know what a blueprinted engine is, is the guy reading from a book.

 

Jeeze...

It's scary to see someone is publishing hogwash like that, and there are people that actually BELIEVE HIM!!!

I'll give you and example of blueprinting shaggy, maybe then you'll understand what it means.

But let's say you have a crank that you just got back from the machine shop and they said they ground it .010" under. So you go buy bearings that are .010" over, thinking all is well.

Throwing the bearings in the block and main caps, dropping in the crank, throwing on the main caps, and making sure the crank spins IS NOT blueprinting.

Blueprinting is putting the bearings in the block and main caps, torque them to spec, measuring the inside bore, then measuring the main journal on the crank that will reside in each specific bearing combo and making sure they all have .0022-.0025" of clearance, and modifying them so they ARE all within that range. If there’s way too much clearance, then you may have to complain to you machinist that he over cut the journals. If there’s too little clearance.... etc.

If the clearance is darn close, like .0028", you can buy bearings that are .001", .002", etc. oversized to fill in the gap. And sometimes all it takes is switching the bearings from one main to another, or even switching only the halves.

Another example is making sure all the top rings of the pistons are gapped between .016" - .017", .020"- .022", depending on the intended use.

When you go through the engine and make sure that all the specs are within certain tolerances, THAT’S what blueprinting an engine means. Balancing a rotating assembly is also part of blueprinting. They usually go hand-in-hand. Slapping a solid cam into a 350 with Sportsman heads, single plane intake, 1.75" headers, and a Dominator carb is not blueprinting. That’s called component matching.

BIG difference.

 

Holy crap I never seen so many people wanting just to be right. I wasnt disagreeing with anyone on what it takes to blueprint an engine. I guess everyone is just a little on the hot side. Everyone seems to need to take a break and breathe. In any case im on my thrid engine and Ill let my engine machinist who has been building engines for many years after all its his family business. Im happy that my machinist doesnt act like hes the know it all on engines and really can have a intelligent discussion. And before anyone has any smart *** comments because i see them coming. I sold my first engine and my second engine went to myt insurance company from an accident and was still running strong. Why does everyone here read into things. Answer me this in blueprinting if changing the cam profile for a said engine is changed due to a desired spec is this not blueprinting. Therefore a matched component maybe heads to accomadate that cam would also be blueprinting. I have seen this described as blueprinting in many ocassions. How is this not matching components? But if you just want to argue just to be right then go ahead I dont care.

 

I don't see anyone getting hot.

Perhaps instead of being defensive you should take it FWIW. I'm sure we've all heard it at the local cruise spot at one time or another, but never really knew what it meant.

I'm surely not upset, I just want to make sure that whoever is reading this fully understands what blueprinting means.

Keep it real, brotha' man.

 

what Mr.aj said

 

Ok lets keep it real and have a discussion rather than everyone responding with your this and that and not even answering a question. Cmon whats the point of a discussion board if noone wants to discuss but rather say I know this is how it is and thats all there is to it. I have already seen a couple of people contradict each other on this subject. I have seen expalanations of blueprinting state that every aspect of an engine is taken into consideration rather than just the machined tolerances because that what a few people have stated all that takes place. Why does every blueprinting course I see not only teach you about machine tolerances but rather understanding about matching engine characteristics and performance in horsepower? I think Traxion better explained it in any case. I should have said a blueprinted engine is a combo that is a set plan because thats what I meant.

 

Ok I'm going to give this a shot and try to explain this the easiest way. While I was at work today i even looked for a blank blueprint sheet so you guys could see what exactly goes into this.

Lets say you just blueprint the heads, your going to write down every measurement, thats from the Installed Stem Height for each valve in what hole they are in, then your going to to write down what the spring pressure is to that valve and so forth, I have taken these down all the way to each ports volumn and the width of the seat area. Blueprinting is not matching, that is not part of the blueprinting process, that should be done as a given. Blue printing is so that you have the numbers to build a as close as identicle engine to the one that you have blueprinted, racers use this because when you have an engine that works and has ideal Hp/torque for its use you have the numbers to fall back on and build another, and when it doesnt work, you know what starting point to move from.




All in all, its a written set of numbers so that a paticular setup can be duplicated, it doesnt make you any power, and 99% of you dont need it. Its also time consuming and cost a little bit.

 

That was the best explanation so far and basically what I was trying to convey. Thanks

 

I thought this thread was about a 383 stroker build... not wtf does 'blueprinting' mean.

 

If you know what's involved in building a 383, then you'll understand why blueprinting got mentioned.

 

I do know what's involved in building a 383... thanks for your concern. The point is that the originator of this thread did not... and for you people to be arguing about the definition of a word is pointless, and by what you think blueprinting means I simply call basic engine building competence.

IMO this thread should be locked for its absurdity and all guilty parties should apologize to FEI for hijacking it.

 

You're right. This thread should be locked.

Troll Alert! Troll Alert!

 

I didn't decide to stop my 383 project because of anything that was said here that I didn't already know. I just don't have the kinda cash flow I'm gonna need to get a full set of everything. :-)
I've got right around 2k to spend. No if anyone has some suggestions on what to build with 2k that would be cool. Heh might as well ask here since it got all hi-jacked lol :-D

 

IMO you could use your current crank, have it turned, take the block to the machine shop see if they think it needs to be bored out any, get some decent pistons for the size they want to bore it to, and usually you can get a rebuild kit that includes pistons and have all the other things like rings and cam bearings, forged if you want to add nitrous later, a cam with around 224 degress @.050 duration, and some vortec heads already prepped for higher lift and vortec manifold. Ive' seen the vortecs ready for higher lift for around 700 bucks. I think you could squeeze all that in for around 2 grand and that would be a stout motor.

 

Well, you're learning... even if resisting. Thats good.

 

I still wouldnt give up building the stroker motor. I built mine on a pretty tight budget. After having my block prepped at the machine shop I spent about $600. Of course I had to spend a little more because I had to get my main align honed but that was included in the above price. This included new cam bearings and block plugs, balanced rotating assembly, bored and honed .030 over and hot tanked before and after machine work. I can tell he even honed my lifter bores as well as polising the bearing surfaces of the crankshaft and rods. My machinist is a real swell guy as he actually helped me save money as he marked every part with a marker of the block that needed clearancing and exactly how much needed to come off and let me do this myself which he inspected afterwards. This price also included pressing on the rods to the pistons. Now the parts you purchase depends on what you plan on doing with the block. My stroker kit included new Hyper cast pistons, 5.7 5150 I-beam rods, and a nodular crank and full bearings and rings. This was another $600. You could stretch for forged parts if you plan on racing the engine or plan on adding high amounts of nitrous or some kind of charger. I rebuilt a set of 1.94 1.5 heads with new seals springs and valves. With all the odds and ends like seals and a new camshaft I was just about at that budget you are at now. Of course if your not in a hurry and want a real beast that can take a beating go for forged parts and just wait to have the rest done when you have money to finish the rest. Its really what you want out of the engine that will decide your budget.

 

Well, you could still do a 383 build for under 2k depending on what you want to do. I assume you have a 1 piece rear main seal block, in which case you could get an eagle stroker kit from jegs part number 356-B13005L for $925.

If you have a 2 piece.. the # is 356-B13005E for $895

These kits come with everthing from rods, pistons, piston pins, rings, bearings(rod and main),crank, harmonic balancer and flexplate. It even comes balanced.. although I would have it checked by the shop anyhow.

After block work, cam, and other misc items you could still be under 2k.... Depending how much money you are sinking into the heads.

 

I was thinking about getting a set of Dart Iron Eagle heads (not sure on cc) Probably 64cc. The X268H comp cam kit. 1.6 roller rockers. And depending on if I go with the stroker or just a 350 rebuild a set of cast flat tops with valve recess. And new crank rods etc. So this is what is stopping me from the stroker. I need head build bad and want somthing pretty high performance.

 

You should take a look on ebay for a set of heads. I seen a set of 2.02 1.6 Darts fully assembled go for $550. I see good deals on heads on ebay all the time. Make sure you check their feedback and ask questions.

Here is the auction I am referring to. Im sure you can find something similar.


Here