I realize part of this question dosen't belong in tech, and I also realize the second part is not for a SBC or a BBC, but you guys have always come through with impressive knowledge in the past, and I hope to learn before I put my cash down.

Situation: 1966 Pontiac Tempest - 472ci Caddy motor.

Are replacement panels easy to find? The doors/quarters are flawless, but it needs a passanger side fender.

Next question, we've all heard of the 500ci Caddy motors, hell people are stuffing them in Chevettes and running 10's. However, is the 472 in the same "Family" of motors as the 500? What car did these motors come in, and does anyone have bore/stroke data? Is there anything on the performance aftermarket for the big caddy motors? (Something that will make power up to 6500 RPM at least, I'm not talking top fuelie or anything). Do most camshaft manufactures make cams for the 472's as well? Inbetween what years was the 472 produced, were they all two bolt mains, or 4 bolts, or avaliable as both? Would headers for this block in this body basicly be non-existant? Also, anyone know the approximate weight of this beast? It's a 2 dr. hardtop. Lastly, would a SB or BB chevy transplant be practical (meaning do the motor mounts/crossmember need to be changed???)

Thanks guys, as always I really appreciate anything you have to say, and am looking forward to learning more.

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86 IROC-Z, Retired for winter, weird oil leak (drains out in about 3 minutes), new 355 other than that, TPI, 700R4, edelbrock headers, removed AC/Air pump, heater plate conversion - no heater (loL). 14.8@90MPH

Next project (think I'm going to scrap the IROC)- mid 80's monte carlo, 383, edelbrock performer RPM intake, cam, holley double pumper carb, sportsman 2 heads, NOS. Hoping mid/high 12's on motor, mid 11's on spray.

 

look around car show for body parts, i ithnk the 472 is a smaller virsion of the 500. if you look around you'll find a few preformance parts.

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ICON Motorsports

1st & 3rd

 

Pontiac and Chevy shared quite a bit, I'd be willing to bet a SBC could easily be put in.

I forget what the Tempest looks like, but try YearOne for parts/panels.

 

If your car is a 2-door, then GTO body parts from the same year will work. 1966 and '67 body parts are mostly the same. Lots of body parts are available for GTOs. I believe Year-One, Classic Industries as well as some other companies probably have the parts you need. As far as the Caddy engine, I'm pretty sure the 472 is in the same line as the 500. A few months back, in either Hot Rod, Car Craft or Popular Hot Rodding, there were some interesting articles on this line of engines.
jms

 

The Tempest was the car that the GTO was an upgrade from. As such, it was the same platform as the Chevelle.

I can't tell you much about the Cadillac 472. However, it does have the BOP trans bolt pattern IIRC; so a Pontiac motor would drop right in. It probably has a Turbo 400 now but not necesarily if the car came with a Powerglide (which would have been likely if it was originally a 326 car). Or on the other hand, either a small or big Chevy is a direct fit, all you would need is a Chevrolet trans and the frame-side motor mounts, and the stuff to move the battery to the other side.

I can't feature body parts being hard to come up with. There's way too many of those around for that.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

[This message has been edited by RB83L69 (edited February 03, 2001).]

 

Forgot to mention that the frame is the same as a Chevelle. Just get the frame mounts for a Chevelle V-8 and bolt them to your frame. Transmission crossmember is probably the same as most GMs in those years. You will need to use a Chevy transmission if you use a Chevy engine (although there are adapters available). However, a 472 Caddy would be a good starting point for something very interesting. In all likelyhood, you have a 10-bolt rearend (not the same as the 3rd gens) which is not terribly strong. BUT, you are in luck. 12 bolts from Chevelles (through 1972) and '70-72 Monte Carlos bolt in. There are some slightly different side-to-side widths and pinion yoke differences but not too much to worry about. You have a lot of potential, no emmissions to worry about and an extremely easy to work on platform. If the Caddy engine is any good at all and you get a set of headers, and maybe a decent cam, intake and carb, 12s at the strip would not be far away.
jms

 

Yeah, that's a big problem - parts! I have only found one afermarket intake (Edelbrock Performer - no RPM offered), it seems not too many companies make cams for the cars, and forget about performance head selection. I will keep looking into this though.

It's either buy a 66 Tempest, or add a superram/heads to my IROC...if I can get the oil problem solved. What would you guys do? Go for the classic rough tuff grunt, or the EFI wondership of performance and problems?

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86 IROC-Z, Retired for winter, weird oil leak (drains out in about 3 minutes), new 355 other than that, TPI, 700R4, edelbrock headers, removed AC/Air pump, heater plate conversion - no heater (loL). 14.8@90MPH

Next project (think I'm going to scrap the IROC)- mid 80's monte carlo, 383, edelbrock performer RPM intake, cam, holley double pumper carb, sportsman 2 heads, NOS. Hoping mid/high 12's on motor, mid 11's on spray.

 

Roc,

You mention in your signature a Monte Carlo with 383. An '85 with the right goodies and a 383 makes a nice street car.

About the "what would you do" question.......

It probably helps to qualify my parameters first, so when I tell you what I'd do it will make sense.

Before a build start, I always try to identify the short list of "favorite" cars for me. A basic qualifier is that light weight is very, very desirable. In round numbers, it takes about one extra horsepower to drive each extra 10 lbs. of weight to the same E.T. as a lighter car.

For example: A 300 HP SBC in a 3000 lb. car will usually run about the same ET as a 350 HP SBC in a 3500 lb. car.

Now, which car will break fewer driveline parts? The 3,000 lb. car, of course.

Next, set the budget......forget dreaming about a Yenko Camaro if you're working with a Chevette budget. Be realistic.

If I had to go back 20 years, but had todays selection to choose from, and a budget of say, $7,500.........

I'd buy a 1985 Camaro or Corvette. I had an '84 305 Camaro and loved it. It was a car ahead of its' time. So were those 'Vettes.

The 'Vette has a higher entry cost, but it's lighter by 200-300 lbs. and has a much higher resale value.

The Camaro has a back seat. 'Nuf said.

People in the know (the ones who scribe those HotRod type car mags we all soak up) are now rating the C-4 Corvette the best high performance car available for the money. The C-4's were built from 1984-1991.

That is if I could only have one car. My '87 runs 1/4 mile in 14.25 ET........with the wife in the car. Don't ask, it was at the Corvette Nationals and is a long story. All stock except for $300 in mods lifted directly off this page. Cost $8,950 last year. Excellent shape.

For the same $$$, an '85 Camaro could be faster. But you'd have the Sphincter Smog police watching you.

That's why I have a second car......it's old and it answers to no smog do gooders. As a kid of 12 years old, I promised myself that I'd own one before I got too old to enjoy it. Let's just say it's my dream car.

Whatever your personal dream car is, I'd suggest you find one and start building it.

If it's too expensive, well, find a crashed one, or one with a blown engine.....maybe one that needs paint and interior....

Let your own capabilities and your personal desire to learn new aspects of auto repair be your guide.

Some of us old timers will purposely seek out VERY rough cars that need virtually EVERYTHING rebuilt......including paint and bodywork......because we are able to buy them dirt cheap.

Then comes the real reason......it enables us not to "restore" a car, but rather, to "resurrect" one. It allows us to practice what we love so dearly.....making stuff work right. Faster, more efficiently, with symphonic smoothness.

Heck, pick the car you like best and go at it. There is nothing you cannot do if you're willing to learn.

My first was a '65 Mustang convertible.....

My current, almost finished one is a '66 Corvette......(Vader has a pic)

Next will be a '62 corvette....with 590 HP 406 and 700R-4.........and a rollbar.

Enjoy.

BOR

 

Thanks BOR, however, and correct me if I am wrong, the C4 was produced from 84-96, the 84 being the best handling, the LT1/LT4/and LT5 cars being the best acceleration machines. I guess you meant to say the 84-91 Corvette with either the Crossfire 350 in 84 or the L98 in later years.

Either way, anyone knows what a GTO or Tempest weighs by chance? It would be very interested, the car is in decent shape, need a passanger side fender, and a coat or two of paint over it's primered body, but all in all looks like it could be MEAN.

 

I had a '67 SS 396, 4-speed (same basic car as the GTO/Tempest) that I remeber weighing, with me in it (about 200 lbs) and a tool box in the trunk. The car weighed 3750 lbs. My guess would be, if it is a no option car and with the Caddy engine, it would probably weigh 3,400 to 3,500 pounds. With a small block Chevy, you are looking at something around 3,250 to 3,350 pounds. With the availability of many fiberglas parts, the car could easily get down to 3,000 pounds.
jms

 

Wow I didn't think the caddy engine was some 150lbs heavier than a SBC, I thought that was one of the big attractions to it, that it was only like 70 lbs heavier when assembled intake to pan.

 

Not sure on the exact weights. That is why I had a range. I also guessed the Caddy probably had a turbo 400 on the back whereas a small block Chevy could get by with a smaller and lighter Turbo 350.
jms

 

HOT ROD magazine did a complete buildup of a 500ci Caddy a couple months back. Go to your local library and check out there back issues, I think its like july or something.

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yellow 86 Camaro
LG4 700R4
Pioneer head unit
Kenwood speakers
Infinity Beta Digital 300 amp
2 Infinity Perfect 12s

 

More in Response to BOR's Post,

Thats Why I Bought this




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60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )
85 Sport Coupe LG4 - Daily Driver

Just another Hot Rod kid, or thats what they all tell me.
Livin' the Stereotype

[This message has been edited by Bort62 (edited February 05, 2001).]