i know its not a 3rdgen, but a friend of mine has a grand am with the famous Quad 4, and his head gasket blew at 113,000 miles. He needs the car to last, and he cant afford what the shop qouted him. Im foreign to doing head gaskets, but im learning slowly, working on cars... (SOME car has to be the first head gasket, mine as well be now).

Im confident i can do it, but i need help (instructions), and i need to know what parts ill need and the cost...

Someone PLEASE help us (poor college students with a passion for cars, lol!)

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1988 Formula, 305TPI, 700r4(for now), headers, stage 2 PROM, modded MAF, cat back, no catalytics, cowl hood, centerline champ 500 rims, KOBEL predator ground effects kit, Trans AM tailights, dash pouch, 92 shift console w/indicator, white face gauges, accented red trim, 12 speaker stereo, 4 amps, tint, T tops... icq 44373460 AIM:twiceroadsfool
see it at www.geocities.com/admrlam/Bird.html

 

Just dive in, its not that bad, not as bad as what most people say. It will only come apart one way. Just make sure you mark the gears and put them back the way you took them off. How hot did the car get? If it got too hot more than likely you cracked the head. It would not be a bad idea to go have it checked by the machine shop.

 

I dont want to sound like an idiot, but i need step by steps.... i know i can get them from the haynes, but can anyone tell me what im looking at on the whole?

got it... have shop check for cracked heads....

 

Dear god, i feel sorry for you. Sell the car to someone that thinks they know cars. The damn thing is nearly impossible to fix. You are going to have to remove a motor mount, jack up the car, jack down the motor, remove the tire, remove the timing chain cover, remove the camshaft/shafts, remove the alternator, power stearing pump, oil seperator, sensors, ignition module, coolant resevior, and much much much more.
ALL Of these things have bolts that require you to have 3 inch hands to get at. I swear this WILL BE THE MOST MISERABLE EXPERIENCE OF YOUR LIFE.
Now, im sure some of you are calling bull@#$%, but I currently have one half done in the garage. I HATE the car now. Maybe the engine is different from mine. I hope it is. I have a '92 whith the 2.3L SOHC.
Good luck. I really feel for you.

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1992 Grand am
2.3 sohc
tops out at 100
3 speed auto
absolutely worthless

 

Quick! Quick! SOmeone tell me its not that bad before i have a heart attack!!!

LOL!

 

First, get rid of the Haynes manual!!!!! Go pick up a Chilton, Motors, or a factory service manual for the car. I have done this job and let me tell you this....If you can pull the engine out of the car, it will make life a little happier. While I had it out I just went ahead and did a complete rebuild.

 

I definetely dont have what i need to pull it out of the car, lol... i have no stand or anything. Yeah, the Chiltons is what i meant i had, i get them all confused, lol.

I dunno though, unless someone tells me honestly this aint that bad, i think im gonna bite the bullet nd just try to help him find a cheaper shop... So far, this looks a little out of my league.....

 

Nope 'mycarsucks' your right on. I have a '91 Quad 4 Grand Am. Oh man I still dread the day I did the heater hoses, but the core was easy <go figuer>. Replacing the Alternator was a bitAch, but the trans governor is easier than adding gas ? <go figuer>
The car redefines the word PATIENCE!

If you see a pattern above, then the head gasket might not be that bad. It's all that other "simple" crap around it, that going to give you %hit ...

Ron



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'82 Trans Am
'81 Camaro Z-28
'94 Vette LT1 Coupe

 

Im still hoping it wont be that bad... it hasnt actually blown the gasket yet... its just acting up, and the shop he took it to THINKS its going to soon, so they recommended doing it NOW, before it gets worse... (i guess car is shaking violently).

Still open to any tips, suggestions, plans... Whats a good price for HAVING this done... so far weve been quoted 1600, but i think that guys off the wall. No way im paying that crap, thats why i want to do it myself...

[This message has been edited by admrlam (edited April 26, 2001).]

 

Dont' know why it would cost $1600 US but I had my 95 neon head gasket replaced by a shop for $600Cdn (about $400US) including parts and labour. Since your car sounds a bit more difficult I'd double the cost at most. Hope this helps.

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1984 Z28
L69, CC Quadrajet
K&N Filter
3.73 Limited Slip
Centerforce DF Clutch
SLP 1 5/8 headers, high flow CAT, SS Exhaust
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The Quad 4 is infamous for head warpage. If the gasket went bad or for any reason you have to have the head removed, make sure to have it surfaced!!!!

 

Thats right Joel. When I worked at a Pontiac store for 3 years, I saw a ton of these head gaskets going. In all cases the heads were went out to be milled and rebuilt.

My advice is get it together and sell it!!
OR
Buy an iron duke 2.5 like me. 146K of worryless travel!

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89 Formula 305 TBI
160* stat, 200* fan switch, K&N, Headers, 3in Flowmaster (hollow cat) back, pullies, 1.6 full roller rockers, B&M trans cooler, home-made ram-air
3.73 Richmond gears and SLP Zexel Torsen Posi (MAY 01), Wonder Bar

 

I had an 89 grand am witht he quad 4. The first time the head gasket went it also cracked the head. Repair bill was $2200. six months after it blow GM announced an extended warranty on the gasket. I got all of my mony back. A year later it went again. This time GM did a 50 50 costing. It did go a thrid time. I would never do this job. This is too much aluminuim (SP) and I took it too another mech. He even said that he priced the job to low. He was going to charge me $800 to just replac the head gasket.

Any ways check with GM on recalls

 

UPDATE:::

Well, i admitted i was out of my league, and i went hunting for a nice reputable place to do it for him... The good news is, after talking to him more, the car hasnt overheated at all yet, the gasket is just starting to go bad it looks like, so we are having it towed there, and hoping that the head is still good.

Thank you though, for taking the time to help me... << 3rd generation yuppie, im the first Maller in three generations to change my own oil, LOL!

 

If it still physically RUNS, trade it in on something else at a dealership. I traded in a 91 Escort S/W and got $2000 for it. It had a water pump that dumped a GALLON of coolant out the water pump seal every 1/2 hour of running. The trans input shaft seal also leaked so bad it would drain the trans DRY in 2 days of driving! The car only had 102K on it. This is an "economy car"??? PUHLEEEZE! $2000 trade versus $2000 worth of repairs. Easy decision. I topped off the fluids, drove it to the nearby dealership, parked it on the GRASS out back of the building and drove off in a decent 88 Grand Am with 2.5L "Iron Duke" 4-cylinder mentioned above. I got 133K out of that engine before I sold it to my sister and she drive it just shy of 200K!

DON'T SPEND MONEY FIXING 4-CYLINDER CARS! They are almost all built real cheap with aluminum thin-wall castings and all kinds of warpage problems. Unless you are emotionally involved with this car for some reason (I don't want to hear about it) sell that pig while it still moves under it's own power.

Remember this rule: Once it doesn't move under it's own power any more it's worth only ~25% of what it is worth in runnign condition.


[This message has been edited by Damon (edited April 26, 2001).]

 

Sure, the Quad4 is known for blown headgaskets, but they are also known for other things. If all the complaint is that is shakes violently, and the oil doesn't look like a sick baby's diaper, and its not overheating, then it may not be a head gasket. What would he do if he paid the big bucks to have it fixed, and it ran the same?

Another common problem with these cars (since everybody is just "guessing" at it) is the coil housing. Its the plastic cover that houses the two ignition coils, and they frequently burn through. If it just runs bad, chances are you lost a cylinder or two, but not from a blown head gasket.

Like I said, I know these cars are known for the head gaskets, but c'mon, seriously, they THINK its ABOUT to blow? Its either blown or not. If it is, why can't they tell, if its not, then WHAT IS the problem? They need to get a grip.

Oh yeah, and it sucks to replace the gasket. If you aren't familiar with the engine, then it will probably blow your mind and have you pulling your hair out. Things like how to time it PROPERLY (to many people will get it just one tooth off, and will run like total crap), the chain tensioner (many people can't figure out how to "lock it", then unload it once installed, so on and so forth. I can't give (nor would I try) to give step by step instructions. Let me just say that whoever does do it, if you decide to replace it for whatever reason, if they don't have a clue, plan on buying a motor.

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[This message has been edited by GMTech (edited April 26, 2001).]

 

I love seeing QUAD 4's come in for head gaskets! I can do one in about 7 hours! (Book says 14!!)

Listen to GMTech. Find out why they say it is about to blow, or whatever. Look at the coil housing, and also the injectors. They are both common to fail. Also do the other stuff, check plugs, compression, fuel pressure, etc... While head gasket failure is a common problem, it is not the only thing that goes wrong with them.

If it is bad, yes it is pretty difficult. I have done quite a few, that's why I can do them so fast. Also, I have rarely pulled one off that wasn't cracked! I know it's been said, but have it pressure checked and milled, if not you may have to pull it all right back apart. The timing chains are touchy, and even following the book, word for word, you can get it wrong! It is difficult to tell when it is just a tooth off, until you start it up! If you are off by very much, you could bend all the valves, which would be very very bad!

Here's a little "checklist" for you before deciding it needs the head pulled.

1. Look at the plugs. If they all look pretty much the same, the ignition system is likely ok, but it still could be the coil housing.

2. Check fuel pressure. Should be around 38 psi. (Can't remember exactly)

4. Check for vacuum leaks. Spray WD-40, or carburetor cleaner around the intake, and stuff.

3. Check the injectors. THey should all read pretty close to the same ohms when check with a meter across the terminals. I think (again I have forgotten!) they should read around 2.5-3.0 ohms, but you are looking for the values to be close to each other more than anything. You can also unplug one injector at a time to see if each cylinder makes the rpm's drop.

4. Compression test. All readings should be within 10% of each other. This is a fairly high compression engine, and the pressure will likely be about 190 psi.

If it fails the compression test, you may still want to have someone use a combustion leak detector on it. This is a liquid that sits in a tube, and pulls in air from the top of the cooling system and if there are combustion gasses in there, it will turn color.

Well, good luck!

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Working on:
'84 Z28 LG4 305 with 200,000 original miles!
Added dual elec fans.
145 MPH IROC Speedo
Building 430 HP 350 (ZZ430)
using primarily GMPP parts.
Short block sitting on a stand. (Man, those Fast-Burn heads sitting on it look good!)

Starting to look like the Kicker poster child!

ASE Certified Master Tech

 

yuck, if mine blows (140,000 so far so good) I smell crate motor !!!
Hell, might as well do the trans since I was there also. (3T40 wooohooo)


Ron


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'82 Trans Am
'81 Camaro Z-28
'94 Vette LT1 Coupe

 

Hey, the quad 4 isn't nearly as bad as the Dodge 2.2L turbo when it comes to head gaskets/warpage/cracks. 50,000 miles seems to be the norm for the pentastar pieces of sh:t.

 

Actually, I would've said to keep the Haynes book, and throw the Chilton's away. The factory service manual is the best, though.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
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I did it twice. It really was not that hard. About 18 hours. I replaced the head gasket, the timing actuator, and water pump. Then it blew again at about 210,000 and that time I used a conditioner and a coper additive and just drive it till I sold it. Resetting the timing was the hardest part.

 

You do realize this thread is old enough to drink right?

 

This should be the first rule of newbies to this site;

"Always look at the date of the last post in any thread you respond to. If the last post is, as Fast355 so rightly said, old enough to order a Beer, the issue has likely long ago been resolved"