In the next week I will be taking my cam out for inspection. After putting my passenger head back on and new Stealth Ram intake I adjusted the rockers. First adjustment was backwards, but not too tight. Second adjustment was right, but i tightened them way too tight. I misunderstood procedure by tightening them till there was no play at all....side to side, and up and down. Correct procedure is no play up and down. I drove on the car for one 1/2 mile to the exhaust shop and then back to my garage. On the way home I started hearing a tick/knock. Upon inspection I found the noise to be higher pitched than a rod or crank knock and higher in the motor than those. Thinking it was a crushed #1 cylinder lifter I changed both out for brand new ones. Noise is still there and car has no power, but runs and idles "ok".

The poll is to see if i just wiped a lobe or two or all.....or if I snapped the cam.

I hope is the first one.
Ryan

 

You likely wiped a lobe or three, but probably not too badly. Somebody overtightened the lifters in my camaro before I got it, and we had to tear the whole top end of the engine apart and replace the cam, lifters, everything.

Like yours, it had absolutely no power, and until we fixed it it didn't want to run or idle properly.

Either way, you'll need to tear the top end of your engine apart and replace the camshaft. You certainly won't be able to pass emissions with a flattened cam. In the meantime, drive something else.

 

Taking the top end apart and replacing the cam isn't a big deal....i've done it a few times for other things in the past year. I just read about someone who broke their cam in half though. The more I think about it I don't think that is the case because the car runs. If it was snapped....it wouldn't accurately turn the distributor.

What about lifters? should I replace all of them too? I'm trying to spend as little as possible to solve this problem so I can start my turbo project.

Ryan

 

Lifters are relatively cheap, and you don't want to ruin your new camshaft by reusing the old (overtightened) lifters. It'll just round off the new cam.

 

if you trashed the lifters you need a new cam too, at least if it's a flat cam. how can you adjust the rockers correctly but too tight, if it's too tight it's wrong.

 

I drove the car today from my parents garage to the parking lot behind my house. It was very noisy and had no power, but the wierd thing is there seemed to be a RPM range that sucked....i tried letting it rev high and it seemed to perk up a little. By the time i got here the oil pressure was at 12.5 at 1800rpm. I REALLY hope i didn't mess up my bearings. The motor only has 35k on it! I've got the L98 cam and lifters from the motor that was originally in the car. I'm gonna put those in and see what happens. If it ends up needing a total rebuild its gonna be put on the backburner for a while...stupid credit card debt.

Ryan

 

Yeah, that's typical of a rounded cam -- mine did the same exact thing, sucked at low RPM and had power at higher RPM. Revved like nobody's business.

But 12 PSI oil pressure? Ouch. I don't know why it did that, my car had no problems with oil pressure running on a rounded cam. But as long as you didn't run it for very long at that pressure, you shouldn't have done anything. But I don't know how far it was from your parents garage to your house.

 

I dont want to rob your thead but I-********** am second guessing my valve lash. I have just put my motor together and now after reading this and another thread i am second guessing my self.. I don't want to tare the intake off to check the lash. Would it be worth me backing the push rods off a bit and make them loose and retighten after the motor is started or not. I adjusated them by the method I have read on tgo by tightening to the point there is no play in the push rod( I thought they ment if I could not spin the push rod) Is this wrong? I did watch the lifter to see them start to compress. I am thinking it is better to be to loose than to tight on a new motor? If I should back them off... how much?

Sorry REDGT for robbing but I got really concerned and what happened to your might happen to mine if I a wrong.

 

Yes that is wrong.

With hydraulic lifters, you spin the pushrod and tighten, and STOP TIGHTENING WHEN YOU START TO FEEL DRAG ON THE PUSHROD. Then whatever "additional" you want to crank it down. 1/2 turn, 3/4, etc.

Any play they mean is vertical/side to side. It takes almost no pressure on the lifter before the pushrod looses all of that sort of play.

I always back it off when I think I feel drag, and repeat, just to make sure.

You don't need to take the intake off to do this, just the valve covers.

You can also adjust with the engine running, but I've never tried that.

 

I had a bad feeling I was wrong and at least I caught it NOW. Sense I can not see my lifters to see where my valves are how can I adjust the play. Am I better to back them off a little and when I start the car adjust them then and is that going to make a big mess on my newly painted engine and bay?

 

I would set the valve lash by spinning the pushrods and feeling for tension as mentioned above. If you are unsure if they are set "correctly", run the engine, remove a valve cover, and set them by backing them off and retightening. It is a bit messy, but oil wipes off.

 

My experience with pulling the valve covers and starting the engine was not pretty. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, however, some engines may not shoot oil like that.

Basically you need to adjust the rockers when the valves are completely shut. I just rotate the engine by hand and watch the rocker....when the valve starts to close, I pay close attention, and keep rotating until no more movement...just so I'm certain it's on the cams "base circle". (not on a ramp portion of the lobe) Typically you hear it as being TDC, and to start with #1 cylinder, but that really has no bearing on wher eyou can start tightening rockers up. Well, it does, but you don't have to start at #1 is what I mean.

Once there, just loosen/tighten the pushrods as described...until you feel drag, then another 1/2 turn or so. Repeat for every rocker. You can do multiple cylinders/rockers at one time if you know the pattern, but I just find it easier/feel better doing each one individually, starting in one place and working in a pattern. (#8, #6, #4, etc) Don't trust myself to count each rocker correctly.

 

Well, you already saved money not buying a manual and following the lifter preloading procedure...look where that got you.

 

By what you are discribing it is the way I adjusted the lash at first. By spinning you mean twisting the PR in your fingers right? If so that is what I did. I started with #1 and went around and did each cylinder 1 at a time. JUst as I was unable to spin/twist the PR I turned it 1/2 turn past and left them. I watched the lifters and made sure I did not go more than 25% compressed as per manual. more like just as they start to compress the lifter. I read all the threas on it and the only thing i thought i was messed up on was the term Pr PLAY. thought it ment twisting or spinning which is what term ment so I think I am OK.

 

I believe the low oil pressure is due to the filter stopped up with the cam grease.

You did use the cam grease didnt you. You should chane the oil after the initial break in to get this stuff out of the engine.

I think you cam is ok. It sound to me like the rockers are still too tight. This is why you have no low end power and why you are hearing the ticking / popping. You have added durration and killed vacum.

Back off all the valves and see what happens. I doubt that you trashed a stock type cam.

 

I'm the one with low oil pressure, and my motor is not the newly rebuilt one.....that is 84 Restore. I have already backed off my rockers as well.

The second time I used the running motor method. It's not that messy if you have rocker clips. The are two leg spider looking things that keep oil from shooting out of the pushrod into your face. They can be found at any local parts store. As long as you don't rev the motor and you use the clips there won't be a mess. In the last adjustment we loosened them till we heard them tick....then tightened them till the tick went away, then another 1/4-1/2 turn. I've heard from many mechanics that this is the easiest and best way to do it if the motor is in the car.

ryan

 

Again, it's not when you can't spin the pushrod...it's when you can FIRST feel that the pushrod is HARDER to spin. This will be when there is a TINY bit of pressure on it from the lifter plunger spring.

It's like the difference between a car with rolling with no brake applied, and then applying the brakes just enough to slow the car down very gradually. Sounds like your adjustment was with the car rolling, and then standing on the brakes.

Turn the pushrod as you slowly tighten, when you start to feel that it's just a hair harder to turn, stop. Back off a touch while spinning, feel it get easier (to verify what you are feeling) then re-tighten very slowly until you just start to feel it get hard to turn. THEN go your extra 1/2 turn or whatever.

 

Ok....went to start takin the top end apart and found two pretty important things uplugged, the MAF and air temp sensor. So before tearing things apart I hooked up back up and took it around the block. Definately a huge difference....i was a dumbass for not hookin the MAF up. I guess it being under the air tubes made me miss it in reasembly last time. So it still makes the noise, but it runs a lot better and smoother. Actually the power loss is a lot less now.

Then I started thinking about it. I've got the hydrolic roller lifters...and the car was drove very slowly for a mile with the rockers too tight. Here's my theory....
These roller lifters have two things that would save a cam from being wiped. First, the hydrolic part....I have not seen the inside of one of the lifters, but from what I've read there is some sort of spring or springing action in the lifter. So the force of the pushrod is not DIRECTLY onto the cam. If this lifter fails....there will be play in between it and the roller (which sits on the cam). Secondly it's a roller...no sharp edges....the wheel has a more free force.

After taking the intake off I jiggled all the pushrods. I found 2 REALLY loose and 1 kinda loose. The rockers are adjusted properly...so my thought is that I just have two...maybe three...blown lifters. The plan is to replace those lifters and put everything back together. If the noise is still there I'll go after the cam, but the intake coming off then back on is a lot less work and worth the try. I'll post the results tomorrow when everything is back together.

Ryan

 

Why not try a dial indicator on the pushrods and measure what damage you done? Would save a lot of time and energy. By now I bet you know how to set the valve lash so we won't bring that up again.

 

Got the car back together.....still ran like crap and clapped like crazy.

Yesterday I took the intake off AGAIN....i'm a pro at it now....lol. I decided to not be lazy this time and do the smart thing. I took all the lifters out and checked them for "depression". Found 6 more that were either totally loose or pushed down more than it should.

The plan is to take the lifters I have off my old motor, take them apart, clean them, put them back together, and put those in every spot there isn't a new one (5 new oem aftermarket). After examining the rollers for scratches, scorches, and basic clearance and rolling I found that it would be almost impossible that I wiped a lobe.

I'm going to attach some pics of a lifter with all the inside parts lined above it in the order they came out. I keep learning more and more about this motor the more I have it.

 

1

 

2

 

Don't mind the tupperware....lol

That oil was brand new oil before I put the lifters in. The oil "trapped" in the lifters was pretty dirty

 

You are having a tough go of it.. You will eventually find the problem.. Hey when you took those liftres out you taged them or something right... They need to go back in the same spots they were or you will get extra ware on your cam. how come you did not just replace them all it prolly cost you just as much for 5 as it would for the whole set. i was just wondering. If its a money thing i understand.. I have run out of it too. Where is that tree that grows money?

 

These are roller lifters....there is no wear on the cam or lifter. The only way any "wear" happens is if something goes wrong and the lifter spins, creating a gouge in the cam lobe and scratching/messing up the lifter.

I picked up some new pushrods from a guy here....so tomorrow I'm gonna get everything back together. If all is good....the new project starts.....megasquirt and a turbo

Ryan

 

update....

Found #1 spark plug snapped in half with half in wire boot and half still in engine. Took the half out of the engine and a pic is below. The pic is pretty blury, but if you look close enough you'll see it got hit by something. This thing is going from back to worse. I almost hope something got sucked into the engine and into the #1 cylinder. Then I will only have to replace the piston, clean up the wall and chamber....or a vavle busted which would mean the same thing.

 

the left side from this view is where the electrode is connected to the plug...the right side is supposed to be in the middle.

 

I would do a compression test on your engine before jumping to conclusions and tearing everything apart.

 

tried...can't get the engine to turn. I'm gonna dlb check the battery cause it seems that might be the problem with getting it to turn. Although I tried turning the motor by hand and couldn't get it to turn....with 7 spark plugs out. I also tried jumping to no evail....gonna dbl check the voltage though.

 

I hate learing lessons this way......

 

#2

 

#3

 

Here....fixed it....just clean up the debry....slap this back on and drive!

 

wow.... good luck on the rebuild

 

"Rebuild"?

How about, "new engine"?

 

DEFINATELY new engine...that block is junk. I'm not going to jump into a new engine too fast...money constraints and the fact that think taking my time and deciding on a engine combo is in order. I'm gonna probably start parting out things I wanna replace...such as the AC box (for a non-AC box), the serpentine system (for a billet alternator/water pump/sterring pump set), ect. The very first thing that comes to mind is finding one of the dime a dozen 4 bolt main truck shortblocks that are so plentiful in this area and using it for a killer 383 rebuild.

I'll keep a post for progress once something solid gets under way...in the meantime anybody looking for parts drop me a line.

Ryan

 

WOW! where did the piston go??? how high did you have to rev it to do that?

 

only went to 5k......

When adjusting the vavles I think I adjusted the #1 intake way to far (had trouble hearing clicking/clapping) and cracked the vavle. Then when I reved it to 5k it must have snapped and fell into the cylinder.

Lesson learned...rockers will be adjusted properly from now on.

 

My engine will go in next week and i am worried about the lifters being adjusted to tight. but i am not sure. I think I am going to back them all off a bit to make sure they are not. Dude I really feel for you. sorry about the car. Gat a plan and save some money and getur done!

 

84 Restore- don't be afraid of your engine, that doesn't help things at all. Setting valve lash is NOT difficult, just don't be lazy about it. If you have a hydraulic cam, make sure your lifters are pumped up with oil, if not and you adjust them, they will go tight. Next after you know the lifters are pumped up, which by the way you can run a pre-luber on the engine until you get oil out all your pushrods and then the lifters are pumped, you have to make sure the valve you are adjusting is on the base circle of the cam. This is fairly simple, take your valve covers off and all the plugs out. Turn the engine over by hand until the intake valve of the #1 cylinder opens and closes and your balancer lines up at 0. Now you are at TDC of the compression stroke. Starting with #1 cylinder turn the engine over by hand until the exhaust valve just begins to move up. Stop and adjust the intake valve of this cylinder. When adjusting, forget the rotating the pushrod crap, thats inaccurate, adjust until you have no play UP AND DOWN, o lash, now turn an extra 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Now that valve is done, rotate the engine by hand again until the valve you just adjusted just begins to move and adjust the exhaust valve of #1 the same way. Now that cylinder is done. Now rotate the engine until the #3 cylinder exhaust valve just begins to move and adjust the intake valve. Rotate and do the exhaust valve. Now keep going through the engine until all are adjusted. Done, and no worries. Just make sure the lifters are pumped up, this is critical, if not they will be to tight and possibly end up with pics like above. If you do not have the intake on yet, you can soak the lifters in oil for a while and they will pump up on their own.
Good luck, Jeff