hey all,

I appreciate any insight on this one.
I was driving my '83 with the original/stock (as far as I know) 305 and auto to my new home and stopped at my parents for a night to visit. it was a 2 hour trip to their place and 2 more hours to my new place.
The car ran fine.

I got up in the morning and went to start it. It would turn over to a point and then stop cold. I thought it was hydrolocked at first (has the at-one-time "functional" hood louvers and it had rained that night). I couldn't turn it over by hand with a socket/breakerbar on the crank either. I left it for a week there until the next weekend.

Fast forward one week>>>

I realize the starter gear is buried in the flexplate. it's bound up in there and I have to loosen the starter bolts to be able to snap it back into it's home position. I thought I had a starter problem and potentially a flexplate tooth problem because of the possible hydrolock (which should have been long gone by now).

I changed starters to no avail. The engine seems to be hitting one particular spot and stopping...locking up hard. So I crank the engine over backwards with a screwdriver against the starter. About 120 teeth later it locked up in the other direction!!!

DOH!

Anybody have any other thoughts besides the possibily that I've broken the head off a valve which is now stopping the engine from spinning through a few degrees of it's motion?

I keep thinking it's that but I know it could be other possibilities too. I hope it's that because I could hopefully fix it and drive it home (even if not optimal, I could do it) just to get it there.

thanks for any help,

Clem
SCCA TransAm Series Race Mechanic/CrewChief
-------------
1983 Z28 with LG4, 5 speed, and (unfortunately) T-tops
1983 Z28, NO T-tops, (unfortunately) Auto Transmission (hopefully not for long)

[This message has been edited by clemsparks (edited July 02, 2001).]

 

Its possible a valve is gone or for some odd reason you migh have a rod poking out of the oil pan. I lost a valve once but its was runing at the time so the engine dident lock just dinged the piston real good and ran like crap. A simple maybe that you probably already checked, one of the flywheel bolts or torque converter bolts could have came loose and go lodged in the bellhousing preventing it from turing over also could of caused the starter to stick. <--- long shot.
I dunno guess its time to pull the valve covers.
Good luck!
SSC

 

Pull your sparkplugs out and have a look at them. If anything such as a broken valve head is in the cylinder, then the plug will be damaged.

------------------
Follow my racing progress on Stephen's racing page
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87 IROC-Z SuperPro ET Bracket Race Car
461 naturally aspirated Big Block

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Racing at 3500 feet elevation but most race days it's over 5000 feet density altitude!
Member of the Calgary Drag Racing Association

87 IROC bracket car, 91 454SS daily driver, 95 Homebuilt Harley

 

hey,

Well, I did pull all the plugs when I thought the motor was hydro-locked with water. I didn't notice any major damage to them then BUT remember...the engine never ran with the broken valve. The thin cranked over REALLY hard once and then locked up. I think it might be possible that the vavle broke and never got a chance to mess up the plugs. ??? who knows.

I'm going to tow it home this weekend on the trailer and investigate from there.

I was thinking about the possibility of it being a rod. however, there's no external evidence of it and I think a broken rod would display much less consistent binding. This happened EVERY time at THE SAME places in the rotation of the crank. still could be a rod. It would be a funny time for that to happen though, since it hasn't been "hot rodded" lately. I was just driving on the highway and I've never revved the thing over 4500 ('cause there's no point even going that high with a stock 305).

thanks for the insight, any more appreciated

Clem

 

AS SSC said above, just pull the valve covers and back off the rockers....

If the valve came apart, you will have a REAL tall valve spring..

------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R
and 2 POS commuters...

R.I.P. #3
"He can see air"

 

As said above, just remove those four bolts holding your valve covers and find out.

BTW if you did drop a valve, that sucks

Clayton

 

thanks

I did pull the valve covers, but didn't have time to back off the rockers yet before I had to leave. That's exactly what my first step was going to be though

I hope that's all it is, a dropped valve.
That would suck I guess, but not as bad as a thrown rod or such.

My weekend is going to be all crazy, so rather than go through the stress of trying to fix it on a deadline, I'm going to go through the stress of dragging it home (my tow vehicle is, uh, sketchy). I'll dig into it next week and reply to this topic on what I find.

thanks again for all the help, and as always, any more insight is appreciated (if theres another possibility that we've left out)

 

Eliminate everything you can before opening it up. I would look down the spark plug holes and see if you can see the top of each piston as it passes by TDC. You'll see shiny metal if there's damage.

Then take off your fan belt and try again (eliminate the possibility of a frozen accessory).

Then take off your distributor cap and watch the rotor as you turn it over (this will tell you if you have a broken timing chain, stripped timing gear or broken cam.

Nothing yet? Okay, time to get more serious and take things apart... Good luck.

 

Thanks for the help,

I'm pretty sure it's not a frozen accessory since it will turn over through a definite range. I guess I could have someone look at the dist. rotor while I turn it over from the bottom (with a prybar) to see if the cam and timing stuff are intact.

I did try turning it over by a socket on the crank snout too and it was locked up TIGHT.

I just hope I can make it all the way home with it on the trailer

thanks
Clem

 

Here's the update...

I loosened all the rockers and no valves were sticking out farther than normal.

Coincidentally, I did find a "dead" lifter. I guess that's what you call it, it feels mushy, not solid, when pushing down on the pushrod.

So I guess one way or the other, I'll be pulling the intake to remedy this.

I don't quite know what else the problem could be with the exception of a thrown rod. I'm also not sure I've totally ruled out a broken valve. I know it's not likely, but maybe...?

any thoughts?

thanks
Clem

[This message has been edited by clemsparks (edited July 12, 2001).]

 

A scrapped lifter that doesn't hold pressure would barely if-at-all open the valve resulting in a terrible running motor. Then again it's better news than all out carnage

 

My money is on something in the bell housing area interfering with the moving parts.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

My Bet would be a bent Flywheel....mine did that crap....

Drop the Flywheel dust cover and bump the ignition a couple of turns and check for bends in it.

HTH,

Brian P
89 IROC-Z 355(soon to be minirammed and cammed with a bigger shaft, puny 214/220 just ain't cutting it)
Turbo 700(TC Clutchless wonder, god this tranny is impressive)

 

Thanks all,

The lifter could've just leaked down because the engine hasn't run for a month. It ran fine when it did run last, so I guess I've got a lifter that leaks down over time.

I don't think the FLEXPLATE is bent since I've been under there with the torque converter cover off turning the flexplate over by hand quite a bit (and dropping the starter several times).

RB83L69...What do you think could be hanging up in there. It sounds logical enough to me, but I just can't imagine WHAT would be lodged in there causing the engine to stop yet letting it travel through such a great range of motion (120 teeth on the flexplate).

remember all, it's an automatic tranny (man, I hate that!)

thanks for the help

Clem

[This message has been edited by clemsparks (edited July 13, 2001).]

 

Ok,

For anyone who cares, or is following this little "saga" here's what I found. I pulled the engine on saturday because it was apparent it wasn't in the vavletrain (after removing the timing chain and the valvetrain spun freely).

I was on the right track back when I thought it had something to do with water leaking down into the engine. See, someone has hacked on that car pretty riteously. The hood (fiberglass) had been replaced with the equivalent fiberglass hood from a CFI car (opening "functional" louvers). It rained the night before the thing first exhibited the problems. rain got in an sat on top of the aircleaner. this dribbled down the centerbolt on the air cleaner lid and ran down in to the number 6 cylinder intake port.

When I try to start the engine the next day...WHAMO! Bent rod. Now the rod is effectively shortened enought to make the piston hit he counter weight on the crank.

So now I'm looking for a standard bore 305 piston/rod/cap assembly out of a stock 305 if anyone has a hurt 305 just laying around (need a harmonic balancer too).

thanks for all the help everyone,
Clem

 

What a total bummer! Sorry to hear that. It's hard to believe sometimes how much damage a simple little thing like that can do.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Well, it's not a TOTAL bummer. I'm glad I know what the problem is now. I did have to pull the engine, which I was hoping to aviod for a while, but it should be an easy enough fix. I just wanna make this engine last a while longer so I can get the 350 finished up in my 5 speed car. Then this one's gonna get some serious work (5 speed, as-of-yet undertermined engine, suspension, suspension, suspension...)

thanks
Clem

 

I just pulled a 305 TBI out of my '88 camaro and replaced it with a 350 TPI. It had it's problems but the rotating assembly is in good condition (Harmonic dampener is shot though) The crank is for 1 piece rear main seal but if all you need are the rods it might work. email me. I haven't decided what I'm going to do with the engine yet, but I would be glad to help someone on this that needs it.

[This message has been edited by camaroguy99 (edited July 16, 2001).]