I live about 20 min from the Everglades, so AVgas is close by, and cheap, due to all the airboats. Almost cheaper than Supreme unleaded. On the other hand, I live a good 2 hours from the nearest source of anything higher than 93 octane.

I've heard of old schoolers using an Av gas mix in race motors...is this of any use? Is there any benefit, especially considering I'll be running boost? Will it ruin my motor in no time flat? Anyone have any info at all on this? Do I need to find something constructive to do instead of sitting here thinking of this crap?

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"American made baby. 100% American iron. The muscle among the masses. My hero. Yep, you can take your ergonomically designed, space age, computer controlled, 4 door, cup holding map lighted split double wishbone split fold down retractable cargo covered moon roof piece of transportation and keep it. For I have felt the thunder. And I know the difference!"
JSP Motorsports
ICON Motorsports

[This message has been edited by Jester (edited July 17, 2001).]

 

you're not thinking up crap

AvGas has a whole lot more octane in it, a whole lot..

your problem will be what i've heard other racers say. AvGas can cause vapor lock so starting and stopping your engine (like say, at the race track when you're in line) can cause vapor lock..

kinda embarrassing

other than that, i can't see why you wouldn't be able to run it.

I do believe it's leaded though, isn't it? If so, I wouldn't use it 'just in case' fuel injectors don't like lead

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Webmaster: www.IROC-Z.org

 

Fuel Infectors? What are those?

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"American made baby. 100% American iron. The muscle among the masses. My hero. Yep, you can take your ergonomically designed, space age, computer controlled, 4 door, cup holding map lighted split double wishbone split fold down retractable cargo covered moon roof piece of transportation and keep it. For I have felt the thunder. And I know the difference!"
JSP Motorsports
ICON Motorsports

 

if you don't know what fuel injectors are, you shouldn't be going around changing your gas. Go get a book and learn more about your car first.

 

uhhhhhh can we say carb

 

My dad runs it in his Nova. It had a 327 and ran low 12s with it. He used 3 parts AVgas and 1 part 93 pump, or half purple gas and half 93 pump.
The 383 is ready to be put in.

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91 RS 305 TBI 700R4. Open Element and Ultra Flow Muffler. ET 15.86
55 Chevy on 76 4x4 frame

Dale Earnhardt Gone but not forgotten

 

Back before anybody really cared very much about the taxes, when they started lowering the lead content, we used to go to the airport and get it... it was high, probably 60 cents a gallon or so, but it was worth it. We could run a whole lot more timing that way. Timing is good! Timing is our friend!

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

only problems i've found with it is the anti gel agents in it for the altitudes can cause a gumming up of the carb. just try to keep the inside of the carb clean on occasion and move the timing up when you run it, you'll be just fine.

 

Hmm..maybe this idea has some potential after all I may use some in the near future, whileI'm dialing my boost in, or all the time depending on how much boost I end up running.

I have one vote for .33% Av gas...and another for 75%. anyone care to narrow the range a bit?

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"American made baby. 100% American iron. The muscle among the masses. My hero. Yep, you can take your ergonomically designed, space age, computer controlled, 4 door, cup holding map lighted split double wishbone split fold down retractable cargo covered moon roof piece of transportation and keep it. For I have felt the thunder. And I know the difference!"
JSP Motorsports
ICON Motorsports

 

I ran it 50- 50 with ethyl in my 400 firebird, but that was a 14.5 to one compression engine and it wouldnt run on pumpgas, god i miss the good old days, I also miss that car, and everybody that died in it.

 

OH, i just dated myself, ethyl was supreme back in the day and the airport would pump LL101 (low lead, 101 octane)straight into the tank.

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CMSII

 

LOL!! I wanna ride

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Webmaster: www.IROC-Z.org

 

One thing you SHOULD check is whether or not it is legal to run AVgas. Where I live, there is not any "road tax" on AVgas and I believe it may be "marked" with a special dye. If it is "marked" in your area and you do not have a special permit you can face a hefty fine.

 

This is true im my area also. I use to run a 60/40 mix of AV fuel in my truck 60%av but there isnt any fuel guys at the air port looking to make a few bucks these days. Uh yea my uh air plain ran out of gas a few miles back . One thismg that no one has mentioned you need the correct mix of fuel or you might burn up your valves. I was fine with 12:1 compression at 60/40 but it increased engine temp a good 20 deg.
SSC

 

It is dyed, it is illeagle to run it on public roads, the fine is $25,000, you can buy it if you have a tail number, and just like racing gasoline, it WILL slow down and MIGHT burn up an otherwise stock motor.THERE IS MORE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPEMENT ON NITROS OXIDE SYSTEMS TODAY THAN THERE WAS ON THE FIRST SPACE SHUTTLE. Hands down, the safest, cheapest way to go fast without major engine mods is a 125 H.P.nos kit. May the gas be with you. P.S. Ive got the timeslips from my old ladies 2.8 MPFI 87 camaro. 16.872 @79MPH on supreme, and 17.436 @74 MPH on racing fuel mixed 50/50 and the temp had dropped 5 degrees between those runs

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CMSII

 

That's with a piece of **** six cylinder engine. I know MY car runs A LOT better on 100 octane race gas. To the tune of about 3 tenths of a difference.

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92 Z28 5.7
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Trick Flow 23° heads, Comp Cams XR270HR-10 cam, Accel intake base + ported TPI,
TES headers, Flowmaster catback, MSD ignition, #24 SVO injectors, 1LE aluminum driveshaft.

Click here to see pics of my car !

 

I'll tack that up right after the fines I'll get for not running a cat or any other eimissions equipment for that matter

Legality shmegality

I don't think it takes a speial permit...every hillbilly and his brother here has an airboat that runs the stuff...but I am worried about engine damage..IE burnt valves.

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"American made baby. 100% American iron. The muscle among the masses. My hero. Yep, you can take your ergonomically designed, space age, computer controlled, 4 door, cup holding map lighted split double wishbone split fold down retractable cargo covered moon roof piece of transportation and keep it. For I have felt the thunder. And I know the difference!"
JSP Motorsports
ICON Motorsports

 

FWIW, dude out here has a SC 383 in his '36 Chevy pickup, runs one gallon kerosene to 9 gallons premium pump gas. Been doing it for years.

Don't laugh, right now he's sitting at the top of points heap in the Street ET class for the season.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, ZZ3 intake, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/'87 LB9 block, ZZ3 cam, ported World 305 heads, Hooker headers & y-pipe, 3" Catco cat & 3" cat-back).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7 CR forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 600 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

 

Oh how I love doomsday theories.

 

I love people that keep coming back with inane responses, being wanna-be regulators over jester not knowing what fuel infectors are, or how race gas slows down a stock car (with a 17s V6 example to back it up, lol) when he clearly states he's running boost.

 

Aww c'mon Ed give the guys a break. everyone knows more octane slows you down. Thats why top fuelers run watered down Shell 87.


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"American made baby. 100% American iron. The muscle among the masses. My hero. Yep, you can take your ergonomically designed, space age, computer controlled, 4 door, cup holding map lighted split double wishbone split fold down retractable cargo covered moon roof piece of transportation and keep it. For I have felt the thunder. And I know the difference!"
JSP Motorsports
ICON Motorsports

[This message has been edited by Jester (edited July 18, 2001).]

 

2 Types of AvGas. 1 for jets, and 1 for small propeller planes.

Jets get Jet fuel! What a suprise It's red

Your car should use 100LL (Low Lead) it's not cheap stuff either. $2.68 per gallon up here. It's blue colored

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--Steve S--
1984 Trans Am 305 LG4, 5 speed Daily Driver, Flowmaster 80 Series
Holley 600 cfm & vacuum advance
350 ready to get in and run as soon as i find a WC T5.

 

synergy, hell yes it helps, with your mods!! Great heads! got em on MY car. I posted the times from my wifes car. stock. ive got slips from my riding mower (60 ft) no joke, If its got wheels, Ill run it.

 

Ed, need me to post time slips of how my super pro runs slower with pumpgas than racing gas? he clearley stated he WILL SOON BE RUNNING BOOST, As I have clearly stated I soon will win the lotto, IT WILL SLOW DOWN A PIECE OF CRAP. If you got the compression and ignition system, run it! (if racing fuel isnt as cheap or available)It smells sweet, ive burned a thousand gallons of it!!!

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CMSII

 

Jester, Your engine wouldnt turn the magnetos on a fuel car 7000 R.P.M, neither would mine. I think those produce about 12 H.P. per C.I.D, whats your ratio?

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CMSII

 

84 Trans Am, jp4 and jp5 are killer kerosene, not "av gas"

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CMSII

 

ps , this whole thread started about him hearing what the old schoolers did , Its great to see the Youngsters asking "what if" when its about cars, I guess the future is in good hands. Be safe, go fast.

 

Everyone I know who has used AVgas has run a 50-50 mix. Even in stock engines that run the "occasional" tank of mix. IIRC it contains a top cylinder lubricant, I don't know what the additive is though.

That said, I can think of other ways to get around the compression problem if thats the issue behind this post.

Methanol is my preferred substance. It can be a real pain if you don't understand it though. Second would be toulene. Thats getting harder to find in a pure form. Other choices range from 100 octane pump gas to various octane boosters or kerosene as mentioned above.

Don't mind CMSII, it's the air over there. It's full of sawdust and makes you do wierd things.

 

I am a aircraft fuel system repair spicalist with the USAF and we use somthing called JP-8 (jet A+) wich is karasine, benzine, gasoline with addives to PREVENT vaporization and foaming. I wonder what would happen if you put that in a car? 100LL IS NOT leagal to use in a car even though I cant see them finding out until you outrun a cop. as to the issue on losing power with higher octane, this is true but higher octone allows you to run higher compression and advance the timing more wich more than compancates for the lost power. Oh by the way 100LL is leaded so it will kill the CAT if you have one.

 

And lm checking in as a recovering (unfortunately) Airport Junkie. There are two types of fuel, as stated above. Generically known as JetA and AvGas. If you ask for AvGas and get JetA, get that guy fired immediately. If a small plane gets JetA instead of AvGas, it could cause fuel problems and an inflight emergency. Not good.

Clayton

 

BTW, have you thought about where you are going to mount the flashing warning lights?

I cannot say about your area, but where you get AVgas is part of the airport and ALL vehicles must have flashing warning lights working if they are on any part of the airport...if they will let you enter.

I think looking at some octane booster like toulene might be a better alternative. But that (toulene) has its own problems.

 

Hey Glenn, could you detail some of those problems with tolulene?? Thanks.
bsa

 

Last time I checked... there were not too many AIRBOATS at the AIRPORT! I don't think those guys at the docks really give two hoots about legality of dumping a few gallons into Jester's car. They often have more teeth than brain cells at those places.

Ummm... nah, too easy to comment!

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1984 z28 w/ a 357 cu in. monster engine which is looking like the posterchild for Edelbrock with the exception of the Holley 750vac... all the suspension stuff... 9-bolt posi disk is in...

-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

hey 87 RS 402, Are you gonna come over the hill (southern oregon dragway) for Friday night at the drags tommorow? Your more than welcome at our place. I live off Hwy 140 a mile from the Jackson County sports park, the wife is gonna run my super pro 67 camaro for the first time and the boys are gonna run their 84 and 85 t-tops in sportsman, Im gonna do a liscense pass in my bosses 98 federal mogul alcohol funny firebird after the finals.( they wont treat the track till its over). he ran a 5.99 @ 256 yesterday at woodburn, and it ought to be cooler tommorow here in white city, I could use a crew dude to help backup, dust the slicks and stage if you are in the neighborhood. let me know before 3:00 tomorrow, or just introduce yourself, It will be the only funnycar in lane 8, Run is at 11:00. pepsi and hot dogs are on me. Logging is down 90% from 1990, so dont worry about sawdust, The only thing in the air will be methanol.

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CMSII

 

AVGas is leaded and its like 110 octane. My dad is a pilot, so thats where I leaned this from. I really dont know what would happen if you burnt leaded has with a catalytic converter, much less the O2 sensor. Believe it or not, car engines are much more advanced tha the 4 clyinder engines on small aircraft like Cessnas. They have no timing advance, they have magneto instead of electronic ignition so they are more reliable. Anyways, your engine would probably run on AVGas, but I dont know what the side effects would be.

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1983 Firebird
TH700R4 Auto
Small Block 400
LG4 ECM, Intake, Carb, Distributor, etc.
Soon to be non-computer.
Clarion Head Unit 45X4
2 Pioneer 400W 12" Subs
Third Gen Performance
"A four cylinder is half an engine."

 

A lot of responses here... I have a couple of cents to toss in or reiterate... If you run a stock car not designed to handle avgas I would not recommend it... with cat and other emissions equipment installed you will only have a bigger headache on your hands... If you look at the difference it makes in "power" between 93-94 and 100 you probably wont notice much of any gain... I'm not sure there is a standard av-gas octane, but my info is straight from the guy at the pump... Commenting on the technology level of airplane engines... a lot of the planes you see out on the tarmac are 20 plus years old and that is why thier engines are of lower technology... the newer engines are quite efficient and weigh a lot less than thier predecessors... You also should take into acconut that the typical four to six cylinder aircraft engine is around 500 Cubic inches... a bit higher than the average for our little V8's... torque on those engines is probably phenomenal, having to swing six foot props all day... I want one!!

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1984 Firebird T/A - Daily driver
305 LG4, T5 - Hurst Short Shifter
Edelbrock 600 CFM Performer Carb
Open Element Air Filter
Gutted Cat... missing stuff I'll need next year
IROC 16x8 Wheels
Goodyear P215/60/R16 87S - S stands for suck
(but I'm a cheap *** and I don't go 112... don't think I do...)
Quote from my sister: "It sounds like a boat"

 

CMSII, I'd love to come over Is there a way I can contact so we can get together? What time do I need to be there?

[This message has been edited by 87RS402 (edited July 20, 2001).]

 

Dont know if this was mentioned yet, But be careful with AVgas. Its also called 100 Low lead. So it does contain lead. And if you have a catalytic converter or an O2 sensor you may fin yourself in a bit of trouble

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1987 T/A GTA 5.7L, Bored .020 and ported for .202 valves, edelbrock headers, flowmaster exhaust, JET STAGE II chip, Comp CAM, Adjustable fuel pressure, Airfoil, K&N filter, B&M stage 2 shift kit, and a home depot ram air(Hey it looks good and it works)

 

hey rs , Ive gotta go to brookings on a service call, Im a diesel tech. bosses company and his car. My wife wants to make a weekend of it, so i wont be back till monday night. Ill try again next weekend, I can make the pass either fri or saturday. they run the summitt bracket series on saturday, and friday is for anything, run what you brung. Ill e-mail you when we get back. CMSII

 

Actually, 110LL is actually 110 Octane. Check any POH for an aircraft. (Pilot Operating Handbook) Aircraft have to have at least 95 octane to run. There are special AutoGas conversion kits and have to by STC (Suplemental Type Certification) for that aircraft.

The technology in most light piston aircraft is indeed ancient. It is for safety reasons. They use magnetos (mags) so that in case of an electrical problem, the mags should be able to still provide spark to the plugs. They use two so that if one dies, the other is still there.

The only thing that has really changed in aircraft technology is the material compostion. That allows relatively huge TBO (Time Between Overhaul) But as far a sophistication, not much has changed.

Clayton

 

my buddy has run av gas in his t-type with 30 lbs of boost. says it fouls the o2 bout once a month. not much differnce between it and 110 octane racing gas. by the way anyone ever ran hobby fuel in a car? my remote controlled car runs a 30% nitro-methane mix. the rest is alchol and synthetic oils. a guy on a bike told me he has run hobbey gas in his bike but said you add a gallon then fill the tank with 93. he also said it makes his bike run hotter.

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92 z28 170,000 miles 14.20 on goodyear eagles before exhaust only mods k&n and slp 13/4 headers and dual 2 1/2 exhaust
87 trans am 12.20 on motor too many mods to list

 

uh, I woulden't put glowfuel in a car-it has a NEGITIVE octane rating. glow engins don't have an ingition system and rely on spontanious combustion to run-not good in cars.

 

If you read the label "glowfuel is nothing more than what he said. Methanol, 2-cycle oil, and nitromethane. In a model engine the glow plug has a small wire coiled in the center that gets hot when electric current passes. Once the engine is running heat is stored in the coil and ignites the mixture. Thats not spontaneous combustion. Break a wire in one sometime while the engine is running, it quits.

Still, I wouldn't put that fuel in my tank. Methanol and nitro aren't compatible with gasoline fuel systems. It will eat your hoses, O-rings, any rubber in the system and possibly the filter. They don't mix well with gas either. Did he tell you that the stuff is $15-$20 a gallon?

 

I would like to know more about the Toluene. I work at a chemical plant and we have that stuff in 55gal drums. What kind of mixing ratio do you recommend to yield what kind of improvements.

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91 Camaro RS 5.0L Black Convertible 700R4
** Added so far **
*GM Wonderbar,Alston SFC's,spohn LCA's and Panhard rod
*Turbo City Inj Spacer
*Dual Snorkel Air Filter
*March Performance Pulleys
*GM 3.42 Gears with OEM Zexel POSI
*Edelbrock headers
*3" High Flow Cat
*3" Dynomax Exhaust
*Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump
***Future 330hp Vortec Crate with LT4 hotcam and 454 TBI

 

Try this link...
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octanebooster.html

It will explain some of the different mixtures that you can use to get the octane rating you need