well i've been working on my car for a while now and i've ran into yet another problem. I changed the distributor today and went to set the timing afterwards and it was at some crazy # like 16 advanced(my car is all stock), so i take it back down to around 8 and then take it for a drive. It was horrible, so i took the timing back up to like 16 and it acted the same way. I can stomp the pedal all the way to the floor and it wont even go over 3 grand. I don't know what the next step is. I've changed pretty much everything. I can't think of nething else to change. wires, plugs, cap, rotor, coil fuel filter. Thats all i can think of. It shakes a little bit, but it mostly acts like it just needs more power. Any help would be appreciated. thanks,


Brady

 

what distributer did you change to. how did you check ur timing... i tend to leave mine at about 4* of initial timing w/o vac advance

 

i didn't switch to a different one. i called up one of my local junkyards and he had a stock one that worked for $30...couldn't really beat that. I know it worked b/c it runs nowhere near as bad as it did before. I checked the timing w/ a timing light. Stock timing is at 6* so i took it down to there and bumped it back up to about 8. For somereason the timing was set redicously high before. So i drove it when it was set at 8, then i changed it back to around 16 and they both were pretty much the same. It didn't shake real bad or anything. Just seemed like it had a total lack of power. I'm don't really understand the 4* vaccum thing you were saying. Is your set at 10* then? i moved the timing all around and it didn't seem to change the way the engine ran until i started to retard it and it bogged down real bad

 

i forget that i have a carb and you have FI but on the distributer there is a vacuum advance right? when i check my timin i remover the vacuum advance hose and check the timing, its at about 4 degrees i think, but i will double check in a second. i have to run out to my car anyhows

edit: ok i was mistaken.... i run at 0* timing. i think that i will probably bump that up a bit to aid in power and throttle response.

i think if anything that too much advance would create a knock so i think that you may need to advance the timing more. try reinstalling the distributer another tooth foward

 

i was thinking the same thing about moving it forward but i have it lined up just like the one i took out so it couldn't really be off

 

i tried that way once and wont again.. i thought i had it lined up perfectly but nope..... what i would do is remove the distributer and the #1 spark plug. with a friend crank the engine until you feel a push of air from the cylinder. then line ur distributer up to the number one spot.

 

so that can cause the engine to not have the power it's suppose to or rev high???

 

well it sounds like you may have accidentally installed it a little retarded.... but im not sure becasue im not there... i do know that retarded has limited power for me and advance has knocked

 

but wouldn't advancing it a bunch even it out. sorry for all the questions, sorta new to timing and such.

 

technically if you timing was accidentally retarded then yes advancing it would even it out. if your distributer is off by even 1 tooth you will be way off from the correct setting though.

 

yeah. You've got it close enough to run, so you should be able to adjust it out. It doesn't mater what the position of the distributor is as long as the rotor points to the number 1 wire when the number 1 piston is on tdc. When I replaced the o-ring on my V6 distributor, I positioned the wires on the side of it out of the way, so that I could get at the holddown bolt more easily.

Go back and make sure the rotor is set to the number one wire when the #1 piston is at tdc.

 

Did you disconnect then remember to reconnect the EST wire?

 

Well i guess i'll grab my borther tomorrow and well redo it and see if it works. Truthfully i don't know what the est wire is. Is it the brown one? If it is, when i bought the car the wire was cut and was just hanging there and taped off. thanks for all the info and hopefully i can get it fixed tomorrow.

 

This is the answer to you're problem, start here first

Disconnect the EST, set the basetiming to 6* BTDC, shut the car off, reconnect the EST.

If still slugish, the ost likely the HB has slipped, and you get to time by ear...but still need to disconnect the EST when timing.

 

whats the EST?? i have no computer controlls on my car so all i have to hook up is tach and batt....

 

I see...didn't read your sigline, only looked at the 'RS and LO3" and the fact you mentioned "it's all stock" and assumed you were TBI.

So your problem is the car won't accelerate over 3K rpms?

Do you have a vacuum gauge? If so, check intake vacuum at idle, the rev the engine up to 3K and hold it there (all in park/neutral) and compare the results...you should have 18-20in/hg at idle, and within an inch or so at 3K, if the 3k reading is much lower than 2-3inches than the idle reading, you have a clogged/clogging exhaust.

 

well i don't know what to tell you except it runs right now. i was going to to do the tdc thing and see where the rotor lined up at. then i decided to just mess w/ the timing somemore and see what i could get from that. all i did was loosen the bolt and tried turning the distributor to see if i loosened the bolt enough and it did so i just turned it back to wear i thought it was. then i went and started the car and it ran better than it ever has. i looked at the timing and it said it was at 12*. the whole day yesterday i had been over 12 to like 16 and under 12 down to 6. so i don't understand y it magically works now. i remember one time where we set it at around 10 to 11 and took it for a drive and it ran the way i explained earlier. so i tightened that bolt down real good and put the cap back on. I sure hope everything is fixed now and the problem doesn't rise again, b/c i really don't know how to fix it. thanks for all the help, this is an awesome place

 

yea thats why i live on this forum.. alot of help and good info can be found on here

 

well i really don't know what to say. it ran fine the whole entire day...i cruised around town for a while then later that night i drove it about 25 miles to my dads house. I made it into the town he lives in all the sudden it started acting the same way again. I chugged it out to his house and it's just sitting there. The shop here in town can't get it in until middle of next week. I really don't know what else i can do or check. it just drives me crazy

 

Oh boy, I realized I was getting crossed up on the posts/problems....



Back to the original poster....you do need to disconnect the EST bypass connector to set your timing at 6* BTDC...if yuo're at 6* BTDC w/o disconnecting the connector, your most likely 10*'s or so retarded (timing theat is)

 

ok...so what do you do when the little brown wire is just taped off. i don't even know where it goes...so in reality the wire is already off...all i need to do is just plug it back in somehow???.....plus is all this is messed up, how did it run absolutely perfect before it started acting up again

 

What to you mean it's taped off?

If so, then you get no timing advance.

Should be a tan wire with a stripe, IIRC? Don't recall the color, but know n my '89 IROCZ, it's over by the pass side strut towwer...single wire connector.

Now, if yuo're referringh to the same thing as I am, and you don't havce a connection...I'll have to look in my manual to see where it routes from

 

OKay, the wire should come from pin B on the dizzy ICM module (will probably be up against the firewall, below and behind the dizzy cap....4 wire connector)....to the EST bypass connector...to D5 on the ECM...

So assuming you have the wire from the dizzy, drop the ECM and see if you have a wire coming out of D5...or search the engine bay for one that needs a home, ohm it to D5 and see if you struck gold

 

ok so i finally figured where the est connection was. so i unhooked it and set it to 10*....actually i set it all the way from 6* to 12* and it ran around the same for all of them. i'm pretty sure it's supposed to be set at 10* w/ the est diconnected. It's that or 6*, if i'm wrong can someone please correct me. So neways i did all that and it still has a rough idle. and when you put it in reverse or drive it still shakes. And it seems like once you move the timing it runs smooth, then starts surging...not real fast like it's missing horribly, just runs fine....then bogs a little bit, then runs fine....then bogs a little bit. Thats the best way i can explain it. anymore help would be appreciated. thanks for e

 

6* BTDC for stock setting, should be fine..

Procedure (FYI) is disconnect the EST, start car, set timing to 6*...shut off car, reconnect EST.

This way the SES light will not be on.

Seems like you're describing a surge in RPMs, have you checked all vacuum lines for good connections, no cracks, etc? Also, check the brake booster line and PCV and breather line on the plenum. If all checks out okay, go back to the main page ni the Tech area, and look for procedure to reset minimum air/idle

 

Try running your base timing, with the brown EST wire disconnected, at 0 degrees. See if the car runs any better. You didn't mention whether or not you checked the spark plug wire routing, or if you've replaced the wires recently. If you did and I didn't see it, I apologize. Otherwise, I'd recheck the rotor position at TDC to make sure you're not a tooth off. If all this checks out, you might want to check the wiring to your ignition module to make sure it isn't rotted out.

 

so is there a way to tell when it's at tdc w/out using your finger. and if it runs better at 0*, whats that mean. i'm pretty sure it doesn't but i'll check it tomorrow. and yeah i've changed the wires and checked the routing. thanks for your help. it's going to a shop thursday. there only gonna charge me $50 to tell me whats wrong w/ it. to me that sounds like a pretty good deal.

 

really thats not a good deal because we can walk you thru the whole deal first and then if we are still stumped then i'd say go for that deal. i know around here they charge $75/hr so 50 is a bargain. the only other way to check TDC is to take the head off... trust me the finger trick takes 2 mins at most.... just dont be like me and forget to put the sparkplug back in, the thing kept cranking and i was like wtf why wont it start!?!? then as my dad kept cranking it over the carb let out a viscous fireball that scared me, cuz my face was right there

 

i know i really should do that but i seriously have no time and i think my bro is gettting pretty annoyed w/ giving me rides places. Just today i worked a 12 hour day...i know it's not that much but i'm only 17. Note to neone wanting to work in a family owned business.....don't! lol But the biggest thing i don't understand is how could drive the car an entire day through stop and go traffic, then down the highway. It ran flawlessly until the end of the night and then started acting the same way again. That makes me think the distributor is in the right way and everything i've done so far has worked out. Thats why i am pretty much stumped. Thanks for everyones help and i absolutely love this site. And if anyone has an idea to this i'm still up for it. thanks

 

If the wiring that goes into your ignition module is rotted, your ignition module won't perform the way it's supposed too. It could cause an intermittent problem. As a matter of fact, there was another guy I talked to having the same problem and he found two of the pins bent over. Once he fixed them, the car ran great.

 

Did you use the distributor cap and rotor from the junkyard distributor?

Is the coil in the cap? If so, did you reuse that one as well? What about the ignition module?


Double, triple, quadruple check, and then let someone else check, and make sure that your spark plug wires are routed correctly! (check this first)

 

i used everything excpet the cap, then inside was tabs were really dirty and, i changed the rotor button too. Everything else was fine. I took it to the shop today and the guy told me he thinks it's the shaft on the distributor or sometjhing. he said that it's not letting all the cylinders get spark. But i don't really know if hes right or not. he didn't even take it out to check so i donno how he knows. I personally don't think it's the shaft b/c i changed the old one to this and it ran fine for like a day, then it started acting up again so i don't think i got 2 distributors w/ the exact same problem. I'm gonna talk to him about it tomorrow and see what he thinks. but i plan on picking it up tomorrow and not let him do anymore. the wires are right. i've checked like 500 times. thanks

 

When you checked your timing, did the timing mark move back and forth erratically? If it did, your distributor gear and bushin is probably shot. That would allow your timingto jump all over the place. I still think the problem is the wiring around your ignition module though. That or the wiring to the distributor.

 

well i'm gonna rule all those things out soon i hope. I sent my old distributor, the one that i had in it in the first place to a mechanic who will rebuild the whole thing for like $100. My step dad put a sbc in his truck and the guy rebuilt his and it works great so i know he's good for it. i'm really hopin it works..oh and whats a pick-up coil. The mechanic suggested i get a new one of those also. thanks

 

Pick-up coil is in the distributor...I would think that he would replace it when he rebuilds it, might want to ask just to be sure...

 

so i think i figured out what it is... i picked my car up from the shop today and i pulled out and it ran fine. so i think when they were under there messin around they messed w/ the wires and now it runs fine. then on my way home it started acting up again and then i went over the railroad tracks and it ran fine. so i think theres a short somewhere like in the pick-up coil

 

Sounds like something that happens to lightbulbs....

The metal line will break, and then if you tap it, it'll knock the two split lines to touching each other and then they'll weld themselves together temporarily.

Replacement of the pickup coil might be a good start (i'd hate to see you just throw parts at a car though, so look through your manual to find tests to find if your coil is bad or not).

 

you can get a brand new distributor for $100.00... dont buy more old junk at the junk yard... especially electronics

 

can you give me the website or store where i can get one for $100. The cheapest i found one was a AC Delco for $150

 

I still think your problem is related to the wiring. Wiggle the connection to the ignition module in the distributor and see if you can duplicate the rough running condition. If you can, either the wiring or the ignition module will need to be replaced. Another thing to check might be the E.S.T. (Electronic Spark Timing). To do that, idle your car at 2000 rpm's and check the timing setting. Then ground the A.L.D.L. terminal and check the timing again at 2000 rpm's. If the timing changes, then the E.S.T. is working fine, but if it doesn't, you might want to check the wiring to your E.C.M. for dirt, corrosion or rot. As a side note, the pick-up coil is attached by wiring to your ignition module. This leads me to believe that you should probably just replace the Distributor unit with one from Autozone, Advanced Autoparts or Murray's. Any of those three should sell one for around 100 bucks. It'll more than likely solve your problem if your pick-up coil is bad. I would say that the problem is most likely that pick-up, but it sure wouldn't hurt to have all new gear in it to match.

 

yeah...in the end i've figured the damn thing out. today i got under the dash and wiggle the wires going to the ecm. when i did that it would make it run perfect, then i could wiggle them more and it would make it run bad. so i pulled the computer down and untaped a group of wires and there was one wire that was taped up. it was the est wire i'm pretty sure. it was tan w/ a black line soo thats what i figure it is. So i untaped the wire and it had 2 wires going into it then it came out w/ one wire. It had a 3 way connector on it so you couldtake the 2 wires into the 1. Does anyone know if this is the way it's suppose to be or did someone do this. thanks for all the help, i've learned so much in the past couple of weeks lol