Im trying to finish up after reassembling my engine, the last thing I need to do is set the timing. But Im running into some trouble.

I disconnect the est, and dial in the advance on my timing gun, it shows about 20 degrees. When I try to retard it closer to stock the car will die around 15 degrees. When I checked with the est plugged in the first time it showed about 60 degrees advance, which I thought was way too high. Any ideas whats going on? Im getting whitish grey smoke from the tailpipes, so I figured the timing was too retarded, but measuring it shows it to be too advanced. Is my distributor in wrong or something?

 

Lots of white smoke out of the tailpipes, smells like its running really rich.

 

ttt

 

sorry, need some ideas though

 

Distributor could be off a tooth?

If you had posted in the Prom board, Grumpy would be saying 'Give the engine what it needs, not what you think it wamts'

 

The distributor being "out by a tooth" would have nothing to do with it, your timing marks are probably in the wrong spot.

 

I agree with Apeiron. Get a piston stop and verify the marks are ok.

 

Sounds to me like either your timing marks are bogus because your balancer's blob of spooge is fornicated (very likely) and/or you're hooked up to the wrong plug wire.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

The balancer is new, I have the wires on so that #1 and #8 are both parallel with the front of the car.

 

It's probably the wrong balancer then. SBC's came with timing marks in different locations.

 

Its the right balancer, same diameter as the old one..the notch is about the same place as the keyway for the crank.

 

Sounds to me like you have a balancer that's supposed to be used with the timing mark welded to the center of the timing cover, but you have the type of timing cover with the mark on a tab that's bolted under 2 of the timing cover bolts.

Which timing mark do you have? Have you checked to make sure that when you physically place the engine at TDC, whatever timing marks you have are lined up?

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

I hadn't thought of that. The tab is ofset on the drivers side, where should the mark line up at TDC?

 

No telling.

Rotate the motor by hand until it's at exactly TDC (look in the #1 spark plug hole, use a dial indicator if you want), and just paint a mark on the balancer to line up with the stationary one.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

There are a few things that could cause this.

If the camshaft is installed one tooth off - retarded - this will require a lot of initial timing to keep the engine running.

The timing chain cover timing tab and the damper (balancer) are a matched set. The groove cut into the damper identifying TDC must be in the correct orientation with the timing tab to get accurate timing information from your light.

How high is the engine running when you see 60 degrees of advance?

How were you able to determine that the advance is actually at 60 degrees, or anywhere in that neighborhood?

Are you sure you've got the light connected to the #1 plug wire?

Whiteish colored smoke is most likely moisture, probably from a leaking intake manifold gasket or head gasket. Take a look at the plugs to see if one or more of them is really white (steam cleaned).

An overly rich fuel mixture usually shows up as black (dark) exhaust.

Once you get the engine idling properly, check for air bubbles in the radiator. Compression leaking pass the head gasket will put air in the coolant system.

Keep us posted.

Jake

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1986 Corvette Coupe, 415 CID, Edelbrock 6073s, ZZ9, TPIS Long Tube Headers and DynoMax Super Turbos (HATE 'em)

 

Im leaning towards the camshaft being a tooth off..but I matched the dots on the cam and crank gear with the engine at tdc at 6 o'clock and 12o'clock.

At 60 degrees of advance, I didn't look at how high the engine was running, but it didn't sound like more than 1000rpm.

I determing the advance at 60 degrees by using my timing light, I had to dial in 60 degrees advance to line up the line with 0 on the tab.

Yes, its on the #1 wire.

I think I have an intake manifold leak, the spark plugs are really clean and the head gasket is new, no overheating at all either.

BTW! It stopped smoking all of yesterday, but just started up again in a huge cloud of white smoke.. thats a little dissapointing. That happened only after I advanced the timing and raised fuel pressure a bit.

[This message has been edited by rezinn (edited September 14, 2001).]

 

update..after removing the passenger side runner a puddle of coolant formed in the well beneath it on the intake manifold.. I never remember coolant coming out of there. Sound like intake manifold leak?

There is coolant settled ontop of the valves when you look through intake passage in the heads, Im going to replace the intake manifold gaskets and see what happens.

[This message has been edited by rezinn (edited September 14, 2001).]

 

Yep, I figured you had a coolant leak.

I'm emailing you a file on how to install the intake so this won't happen again. I've used if for years with complete success and it had also been recommended in the Tech Help sections of some of the major mags.

Even in closed loop, at 1000 rpm, your timing should only be about half of what you're reporting. 60 degrees of timing to keep the engine running idefinitely indicates a problem.

Make sure you triple check everything else before you resort to tearing into the engine again to check the cam phasing.

If you get to the point of doing that, be aware that I've found brand new Cloyes timing chain sets that had been stamped wrong, one tooth off. This happened on two occasions.

I pulled my hair when my degreeing continued to come up WAY off, but when I finally realized what was happening, and moved the cam, all was well. Car ran mid 8's at 150 mph in the quarter mile.

Many times the dots won't EXACTLY align due to tolerances. The misalignment may not be one complete tooth, but just part of a tooth.

If this happens to you (and you are not degreeing the cam) and the dots are just a TAD off, opt to leave the CAM GEAR DOT toward 7 o'clock side, NOT the 5 o'clock side.

Be absolutely sure, too, that #1 piston is at TDC.
If you have the crank gear at 12 o'clock and the cam gear at 12 o'clock, the engine will be on the compression stroke. When the cam gear is at 6'o'clock and the crank gear at 12 o'clock it will be on the exhaust stroke. Using the exhaust stroke as a reference is easier to align the dots, but you've got to remember that when you install the distributor.

You can use the positive stop the screws into the #1 spark plug hole. DON'T USE THE STARTER - remove all the plugs and turn the crank by hand ONLY.

You probably can verify the cam phasing and make any adjustment needed without having to pull the intake. You may have to loosen the rockers to eliminate resistance (recommended), but with street type spring pressures you may be able to get it to move without even pulling the valve covers.

I've used the three cam bolts, partially unscrewed just a couple of turns and used them as leverage. A long handle screwdriver was slid between two of the bolts to move the cam. Shoot for small, incremental movements; not all at once.

Email me or post if you need any other help.

Jake

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1986 Corvette Coupe, 415 CID, Edelbrock 6073s, ZZ9, TPIS Long Tube Headers and DynoMax Super Turbos (HATE 'em)

[This message has been edited by JakeJr (edited September 17, 2001).]