ok i have an 1985 trans am and when i get to 2500-3000 rpm it sputters and acts alomost like it is trying to shift but if you put the petal to the floor it snaps out of its trance and takes off.i have changed tranny fluid all distrib parts gets great spark now i have been putting off diong The timing but the timing is off.Now i was thinking it might be fuel but why would it do that untill you step on it?and what is my timing supposed to be set at and does any one know the numbers on the timing dial mine is all rusted and cannot se the degrees so if some one can tell me i would really appreciate the help thanks alot.

 

Is it a fuelie or has it got a carburettor? Only reason I ask is that if it was a carb, then it sounds like it's bogging a bit. Sorry my knowledge isn't more expansive..

Mark.

 

yea it is a carbed version it has a brand new carberator on it.Do you know what the timing degrees is supposed to be and how the dial reads?

 

Sorry, I don't know what the timing should be, or which way the markings read

Hopefully using search for ignition timing may turn up some pictures and data.

Mark.

 

Timing should be set at zero degrees with the flat 4-wire connector to the distributor disconnected per the factory. Most have observed that more initial timing, up to 6 typically, can easily be tolerated and helps the engine run a little better.

Each mark on the timing tab represents 2 degrees of timing. Standing at the front of the car looking at the engine, the marks to the left represent before top dead center - in other words, if you set it so the marks are farther to the left, that is more advanced.

 

Hang on a sec....

Are you sure your directions are correct on this? Standing at the front bumper and facing towards the back of the car and timing marks going to the LEFT are MORE advanced? Maybe I've gone stupido or something, but I'm picturing the marks to the RIGHT (as the numbers increase) are "more advanced"....

 

Consider this: the engine rotates clockwise, so the harmonic balancer rotates clockwise. If you have a line set as 0° (top dead center), wouldn't it only make sense that before top dead center would be to the left of that TDC marking?

 

(Edit - Stekman got there first)

 

NOPE.

The advanced BTDC numbers will be before TDC in this clockwise rotation, right? So as the engine rotates clockwise while you're standing in front of the car and looking at the damper, the "advanced" BEFORE TDC numbers will pass the timing tab pointer Before TDC does, so they have to be the ones to the right of the TDC mark. And the farther to the right, the more advanced the timing is.....

Unless I've suddenly gone total "Senior Moments" that is.....

(anything's possible!)

 

At the front of the engine, clockwise means that a spot on the damper, will, in essence, move from left to right. Place a timing tab over this spot (the timing mark on the balancer), and it will cross the left-most portion of of the timing tab first. The middle of the tab is where the top dead center marker is. So you get it so that it linies up perfectly. Now if you want to advance the timing, meaning you want it to fire BEFORE it gets to the top dead center, that means you have to line it up BEFORE the timing marker on the damper reaces the top dead center marker on the timing tab. BEFORE that mark on the tab means it can only line up to the left of the TDC marking, as the balancers mark moves, again, in essence, from left to right.

If it lines up to the right of the tdc mark on the tab, that means that the mark on the balancer passes beyond the TDC marking, saying that the point of spark is happening AFTER top dead center. As I told my gf once while I was timing her car, this is where before top dead center and after top dead center came from (for the simpleton minded). Just refer to the timing tab.

 

I think we're both saying the same thing, just differently. Mainly because I was talking about the timing marks ON THE BALANCER lining up with the zero (TDC) mark on the timing tab, as if you had a single pointer kind of tab and were using the marks only on the damper to read the adjustments....

 

lol see what you started! Now we have a timing debate. Anyway, what kind of carb? Got a make and model? CFM number?

 

Well i dont have the cfm on the carb. will it say it on it?It is a rodchester quadrajet carb. It loooks really small like a 2bbl but the word quad throws me off.I tryed messing with the timing to know evail the car still jerks when it hits 2500 rpm.-3000 rpm and it smokes white smoke witch indicates to me extra gas is burning.I got the manual and electric fuel pump for it but have not yet put them on it just doesnt feel like a fuel problem. Has anyone experinced this with there trans?.Also i am buying 4.10 gears for it has anyone switched there gears or is it just worth it bring it in to the shop?.

 

To advance (think of getting to wotk 6 minutes early) the timing is to fire the spark plug before it get to DTC.

To retard (think of getting to wotk 6 minutes late) the timing is to fire the spark plug after it get to DTC.

If an engine rotates clockwise, a Before (early) Dead Top Center (BDTC) setting is to the left, an After (late) Dead Top Center (ADTC) setting is to the right.

With a zero setting, and the crankshaft at #1 exhaust TDC the crank must turn 360° before the distributors fires. When the timing is advanced 6° the next burn event for this cylinder will happen when the crank rotates 714°, all other burn events will happen at 720° from the new setting.

An 8" dampner has a 360° circumference of about 25.1327", at 354° the length is about 24.78," a shorter distance traveled gets you there early, or in this case in advance of the zero reference timing tab mark.

 

White smoke = coolant burning
Blue smoke = oil burning
Gray to black smoke = rich

 

I ment grey it puts out big clouds that smell like rich gasoline if i park the car in my garage it makes the entire house stink like gas real bad and thats when it isnt runnin im sure if it were runnin we would all die from fumes in a few seconds.Any one have any ideas it isnt the timing it doesnt change its mood no matter were the timing is.If i move the timing from zero it just runs ritcher and ritcher.Please i need help real bad.

 

Try changing the CTS sensor; coolant tmeperature sensor on the front of the intake, 2-wire yellow & black.
Most likely the ECM thinks the temp is really cold so it's dumping a lot of fuel to get it to start, and warm up.
If you've been running it long in this condition the spark plugs will need to be replaced.

 

Well it has no problem when it is first started and doesnt smoke when i start it only when i step on the gas when it is already heated up.

 

The ECM CTS, and the engine Temp gauge sender are not the same.
The CTS could still be reading cold, not that it is, I'm just looking at what would cause it to run rich.
1. CTS
2. MAF
3. ECM
4. fouled Spark plugs
5. ignition system.

Disconnect the battery for while to reset the ECM to factory defaults. The ECM will have to start from scratch.

 

Ok thanks i will try and change the MAF And the CTS That Bluse thing inside the airfilter canister on the side is that part of the maf should i change it to or does it come with the maf?

 

hmmm My car never had a maf i think it was before mass air flows time they make one for it but i do not have one stock.I got the CTS but havnt put it on yet the dude at auto zone told me it felt like a tranny modulator has any one had one of these go out?And if so what does it feel like when it goes bad.

 

WTF The Guy before me Plugged A diode in this biz or had some one do it does any one know what this is?Cause When i first got the car i didnt relize it but he had this thing chilin on the valve cover and when i drove it home it melted the plug and diode to the frinkin valve cover!!!.It is a two prong plug that runs all the way to the front of the drivers side in the engine bay.MAF Bypass maybe?

 

not Bad for 500$ And only 100,000 on original motor. I am some what Mechanical except when it comes to all this computer **** i hate it. but anyway This dude changed the carb, Cat,put a 3'' exaust on it trying to fix its problem.Before the problem i have know of course.He Used to have to adjust the timing each time he started the car and when It did run it ran really really ritch and would eventually stall becausre of flooding he is like "i think it is the ecu" and i am thinkin to myself if it was the ecu when you adjusted the timing it wouldnt restart again it would be a fogged up you would have to reset the ecu and ****.So he is like I will only take $500 not 450 i have already put 3000 into fixing it and i said okay and started to walk away and so did he so i knew ther was know gettin him lower. so i said i will be right back with the cash i go to autozone and the bank to pick up a coil and 500$.So i get there and he says "you got the money" yep i said and while he is fillin out the pink i start puttin in the new 20$ coil from the zone about the Time he signs the pink over i am done with the coil.I hop in the drivers seat and start it up and adjust timing so it puurrss and this guys jaw drops to the ground he is completly amazed he says "what did you do it hasnt sounded that good in a year or so." "I slapped a new 20$ coil in it" he says i will buy from you for $700 I said "no way"And drove it away he watched the whole way as i pulled down his street and dissapeared into the Long beach sunset.

1985 trans am HP model $500
Autozone Coil $20
The look on the guys face when you drive away his "broken car" Pricless.

 

know one knows what this diode and or plug goes to?

 

I don't, but thats an awesome story. I'd love to see the guys face the moment it started.

 

Before you throw anymore parts at it, let's get a photo of the carburetor so we can see what you've got. If it's not the ccc-qjet that came standard on it, then the ecm and sensors aren't doing anything. A better picture of the plug/diode and it's location would help too. Before you disconnect the battery to clear the ecm you should check for trouble codes. If you've got the computer controlled carburetor, your car did not come with a MAF, but it did come with a MAP (Manifold Air Pressure sensor). There's a lot that could cause a rich condition, I wouldn't recommend diagnosis by parts swapping.

 

The plug/diode is for the AC compressor. I'm guessing some hack has already hacked that off your car?

 

Yes your right i have no ac that must be what it is there for but why the diode?just unplug it.Yea mine has the electric carb with that blue plug hangin out of the top of it also is that plug when i turn the key to on but dont start the car that plug goes click,click,click and so on just keeps clickin for about a min or 2 then stops is it priming the rods or is it not supposed to do that.I will post picks of my engine l8r on today.Also The ecm is supposed to be in the passenger kick panel right but the thing is i dont have a kick panel.I hate it when people who dont know what they are dion mess with cars the next owners pay for there actions.Also it has this problem worse when the car is cold when it is hot i can step on it and it isnt that bad but when it is cold if i just keep my foot on the peddle it will hit a plato in 4k rpm and almost stall and stop moving and not shift till i let go of the throttle but once it is warm it will does fine and also it only runs at 150 deggrees when hot is that normal operating temp?Also how do you get the CTS out if it wont come out and is rusted in ther?I tryed gettin it out and stripped a ridge on the nut. . thanks for the help.

 

The clicking is normal and is the mixture control solenoid in the carburetor. If it's clicking your ecm is probably fine. I wouldn't replace the CTS unless you're sure it is bad.

When the choke is on your secondaries will not open and WOT throttle will be extremely limited. It's not a good idea to floor it while cold anyway. As long as it warms up and runs fine after 10-15 minutes you're good.

The temp guages can be off and may not read the correct temperature. My TA reads about 220 when it's really around 185 and my camaro reads cold. You can take it by a shop that can read the ALDL and they can tell how hot the CTS thinks the engine is.

If your carb is set properly you should be getting around 20 mpg and your torque converter lockup should work. You may still need to adjust your secondary air valve for WOT and there's a tech article on this site that can guide you.

You can set your timing by advancing it a few degrees then driving it to see if it pings or detonates under throttle. When you get to a setting that pings, turn it back to the previous setting. If the carb is not right I'd set it at zero until you get the carb worked out.

 

The diode prevents an electrical jolt going back into the system when the AC clutch disengages.

 

Carb vehicles don't have MAF sensors.

 

oh ok so the ac sned a jolt?never heard that before good to know.

naf the thing is is that it doesnt run fine once it is warm and i have changed the timing settings so many times it doesnt make a real dif on how it runs just some degrees make it run like horrible a-s-s .It has a huge power loss altogether and strugles like it is bieng chocked to death when you smash the peddle like you know how your car hops when it is running low on gas that is what my car does only it has gas.i have tryed playing with he carb like mad crazy nothing ever changes the habit of the car the only thing is i think that damn carb is a 2bbl.the dude before me had the carb replaced with this piece of shizz and they probably said well we can put a 2bbl on there and save you some money and he is like ok. damn i need to get this fixed really bad i raced a raised nissan frontier last night and he smoked my *** completley left me in the dust with my car sputtering "damnit".

 

There's a photo of what your carb should look like in this thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=320681

Keep your timing at zero until everything is worked out. Make sure your carb looks like the photo and everything is connected, electrical and vaccuum.

Does your check engine light come on? Does your converter lock up?

 

Yea thats my peice of **** carb alright.I changed my cts made it run a little better the sensor was all rusted and ****.But it still has the same old problem it didnt fix that.I also changed my spark plugs again this is the 4th set in 2 months it is fowling them left and right.Like 4 of them fouled last night when i was driving it and the car almost felt like a cheap disney land ride.Could it possibly be a bad 02 sensor? I cant think of anything else that would make it smoke like my gandpa.The gas fuems are so bad anyone who is behind the car chokes to death in a matter of seconds. Any ideas i will be diong diags on the ecu tonight i geuss i have been putin it off so we will see what it says.

 

Make sure your choke is functioning correctly and is wide open (blades at 90 degrees) when the engine is warm. You'll next need to look at the cycling of the mixture control solenoid (MCS).

It is likely running full rich. You can check this with a dwell meter connected to the diagnostic lead near the passenger firewall. A haynes or chilton manual can walk you through the steps with photos that will be better than what I can type. The MCS cycles more to reduce fuel in mixture (leaner) and less to richen the mixture. The dwell meter will measure the rate of cycling.

If it's running full rich (pegged on lower setting with no variation on dwell meter) and not throwing any trouble codes it could be a bad Throttle Position Sensor (TPS). The TPS can be checked with a volt meter, again a manual can outline the process.. I don't recall the specs. When the TPS goes bad the ecm thinks the throttle is wide open all the time (tells MCS to run full rich) and the ecm will also not allow the converter clutch to engage. You've already replaced the CTS which could be another cause.

Does your check engine light work? Does it light with ignition on, engine off then go out after you start the car? Have you checked for codes?

You could also have the leaking fuel well plug problem common to q-jets. Leaking wells on the carb base will cause the car to run rich when first started but the leaked fuel will clear out after a few minutes.

O2 sensor could be bad or failed. It's probably easier to replace than to test. It's probably not your problem though.

If you want some good info on the computer controlled q-jet, Montecarloss.org has some good tech articles.

Take the time to do a proper diagnosis before you start swapping parts. These $20-30 parts add up quick.

 

Hmm i will look at the MCS I have not looked at the codes yet i am giong to today.I dont have a haynes manual i lost it some how .My check engine light along with any lights on the dash do not come on the only one that does is the E brake light when it is engaged.I checked all of my fuses for that non blown so i am confused on that.Also if you are talking about the air intake blades at 90 degrees they never really move from there spot unless i rev the engine they move alittle then fall back to there spot here is a pic of how they always sit when car is runing hot or has been sitting for 3 days.

 

Also the cold start plug plastic is broken who ever put the carb on must have snapped it but it kinda just sits on there here is a pic of the plug.

 

That is the choke heater. If it isn't solidly connected to the terminal on the choke, the choke won't come off: blades straight up and down (90 degrees) is the off position. If the picture you posted is what your carb looks like after it has run for 10 minutes then that is what your problem is. (and explains the fouled plugs) Fix the terminal, start the engine and check for voltage on the choke terminal. After it warms up the choke plates should be vertical. If not or you don't have voltage, let us know.

 

Looks like someone painted your carb....

First thing I'd do is find out if you have the correct wiring harness and ECM for a CCC-Qjet.

If you do, then that is a good start.

I would next get a carb rebuild kit from NAPA or Schmucks or Autozone or wherever.


When it is cold, none of the sensors (for the most part) will effect the carb's operations. Once it has warmed up it starts taking in information from the O2 (as well as various other parts).

I would replace your o2 sensor as well, you never know when it was replaced last, and it could be like your CTS... original and rusted on.

Good luck (btw, I really enjoyed reading about how you got the car hehe)

 

BAD AIR INTAKE SYSTEM.
I fixed it YEEEAAAAAAAAAA
It is hard to explain but you know the filter inside of the stock air intake system not the actual fram filter but a Small metalic one before the fram filter.
Long story short i went to autozone picked up an edle brock intake and fixed the problem it also made the blades come to there 90 degree and also the vacume hoses were a little blocked giong into the carb from intake so i Closed emm off put a breather on the pcv and now it runs like a serial killer who broke outa jail Like a mother ****er
Thank you for all your help guys. It has been a long journey and now that i have it fixed Bring on the aftermarket i will start with headers and exhuast system i am gonna run sepperate pipes from each header to the back of the driver and passenger doors Instead of all the way back using 2 and a half tubing and i was thinking about long tube headers What advantages are there from shorties over long is there any?Different sound?i want a very throaty sound.Does my car come with posi or do i have to buy it?Cause i am giong to get 4.10 gears for the rear end but i will get posi and traction bars first if it is not posi. Damn sounds like alot of money already i havent evan earned this my money yet and it is gone.But damn is it worth it.

 

Did you install an edelbrock open element air clearner? Along with a breather filter for the passenger side valve cover? That will help over the single snorkle air cleaner but I'm still not sure how you fixed the problem. Was the wire going to your choke not connected properly? If the choke is not opening it wil also not allow the secondaries to open.

You can do a search on the exhaust board for header/exhaust options. A good exhaust and cam will help your motor. I'd recommend a good check on everything else first though. Get a manual and make sure your computer controlled system is operating properly. When it's properly tuned you should be getting 20-24 mpg with converter lock up.

Replace the light bulbs in your dash for check engine, etc.

You do still have the pcv (drivers side valve cover) connected to the carb base by vaccuum line? Don't want to run without this. The breather on the pass cover allows air in, the pcv pulls it out.

 

Yea i installed the edlebrock on there And a aftermarket breather the vacume for hte pcv is still hooked up i wouldnt take that off.
the chock was connected properly same as it always has i dont really know why the air intake was dion what it was dion but everything runs good now and that is all i care about . how do i get to those bulbs do i have to take the dash apart or what.I am probably getting around 18 mpg now i am sure once i get a new o2 sensor it should help.
Thanks for The help naf.