I have a friend who did this. I told him not to, but he insisted. So just how bad is it for the engine/crank?

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91 Z28
Come see The Vicious...

 

You normally don't hurt the crank (on stock hbs). Often times someone misses and hits the outer ring. If that happens your SOL.

Aftermarket HBs (like fluid dampers), can be damaged just by getting a hammer near the thing.

 

Not a good idea,can damage the HD which in turn will damage the engine.Have seen it done with a block of 2x4 which helps spread the impact,but the proper tool is thesafe way.

 

You could also damage the thrust bearing surface. Use a piece of threaded rod and a nut to pull it on. Make sure the threaded rod is bottomed in the crank. DONT USE THE BOLT! You'll tear the 1st couple threads out of the snout.

Its kinda hard to find the rod though. Pep boys has it. Lowes and home depot don't...

Its 7/16" NF

 

There's an installer tool that most auto stores sell, but it costs over $50!! So naturally he opted for the 'free' installation.

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91 Z28
Come see The Vicious...

 

i used the the bolt but i used a really thin washer i found laying around and put a nother bolt in and beat it over a socket to make it look like a cone almost and it worked great, the bolt could go i about 1/2 inch in and had plenty of tread.

 

Does he eat with his hands? Who would put money up to build a motor and then use a hammer to beat the balancer on.This is the worst thing you can do to your crank & bearings.Not trying to be a d**k but damn,use the tools that are designed for the job.I spent a year alone saving up and buying the tools I neeed to build my motor,all of them.

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1982 Z28:355,4 Speed,Lots of bolt ons

 

I do There are situations where tighting the bolt down to install the ballancer will not work Ive had two "NEW" Gm crate engines eat the threads this way. Its best to use a pice of brass and smack the blancer on there but who has a brass punch handy 24 7?
Its all good.
SSC

 

Well I have succesfully used this 'shade tree' method a few times, and I can say that it will usually work. You just have to take your time and tap it on evenly and work around the center hub part of the balancer in a circle. I bet it works around 90% of the time without damaging anything... but like others have said, why take the chance on an expensive engine that is going to see a lot of RPM and a lot of heavy throttle when the tool is readily available? Just doesn't pay in the long run..........

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1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

I've done this and seen it done a few times. If you are carefull you won't hurt a thing. A brass hammer is the way to do it. If you take your time with nice little tap, taps all around it--no damage to anything. I wouldn't do it unless I had to, and never on a race engine.


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350 with stealth intake, holley carb, 470 lift cam. 700r4 with .5 boost valve, vette servo, tci lock-up kit, B&M megashifter. Richmond 3.73 gears, powertrax locker, timkin bearings, synthetic lube. Custom 3 inch single into 2 2.5 pipes. 1 1/2 drop springs, 1 5/16 solid front sway bar, 1 inch rear bar, custom subframe connectors, custom LCA relocation brackets. Kobel ground FX, currant red metallic paint. Lots of other stuff...
82camaro

 

Want a simple installation tool? Make one. Get a long bolt (grade 5) fully threaded. Get a nut to fit on it and a large washer. Put the nut all the way up the bolt, and put the washer on, and screw it into the crank. Holding the bolt with one wrench, crank down on the nut to push the balancer into place. As long as you have a large enough washer, you won't damage the balancer! Not bad for under $5. Just make sure u use grade 5 just in case

 

I had read, and tried the following "Hammer" method.

Heat the balancer up. Literally drop it in the over at 250* or so. Get some of your wife's oven mits (you'll be dead meat!!), slip it on and then gently tap in on. If you have to swing hard with a heavy hammer, you'll probably mess something up.

Just be gentle and patient. Mine slipped right on, then I threaded it in the rest of the way. It was simple. When it was warmed up, it slipped right on.



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http://www.gruveb.com/z28

 

Oh wait, he has just informed me that he used a rubber mallot to put the balancer on. As if that makes it much better.

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91 Z28
Come see The Vicious...

 

Don't ever, EVER, use the original center crankshaft bolt to draw the balancer on. I did. The bolt stopped turning. I made it turn. I finally panicked, and tried to unscrew the bolt- at which point it snapped flush with the snout of the crankshaft.

My mechanic welded my balancer to the crank snout. It's been that way for the past 3 years. Granted, I can't use the crank again, but hopefully I won't have this motor for much longer.

So DON'T use the original bolt! The piece of threaded rod and nut these guys are talking about is the right idea. That way, you don't mess up the threads in the crankshaft, the most you could mess up is the threaded rod.



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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

 

We tried to reuse my oil pan bolts one time. What a disaster! Every second one snapped off when it got even remotely tight.

Heat sure does weaken those little pan bolts!

 

The bearing heater method will work, and shouldn't require any hammer to install the balancer hub most of the way.

The most certain way is with a threaded rod / long bolt and nut.

Hammering on the hub, even with a rubber or leather mallet, lead or other soft alloy hammer, etc., subjects the outer ring to shock forces that it isn't designed to withstand. The outer ring can be broken loose from the elastomer ring, slip and move the timing marks, fail to dampen the crank harmonics effectively, or fall off. None of these are good things.

Having said all that, I, too, have used the "mallet method", but that was before I knew better. That's what this board is all about - sharing ideas and experiences, both good and bad ones. I'd tell you about more of my screw-ups, but I'm sure Dirk doesn't want to have to maintain another entire board for that...

BTW - I'm also a cheap S.O.B., so I generally don't spend a lot on "special" tools when I can make an acceptable or better one from commonly available materials. I wouldn't spend even five bucks on an installer tool, let alone fifty. Holy crap, that oughtta be illegal!

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Later,
Vader
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If you want to beat the World, it might reach up and pull you down...
Adobe Acrobat Reader

[This message has been edited by Vader (edited November 02, 2001).]

 

The only thing about heating it is the isolation ring is made of rubber. It will take quite a beating at 250 degrees.

I got an proform installer on ebay (for small blocks only) for 19bucks.

edit
I see it as what type of risk are you willing to take. If your not willing to risk driving it on with a hammer, then why risk damaging the balancer with heat (since we really don't know what kind of engineering safety margins are designed in). For those of use who do not have friends with hammers, I see 19bucks as a good investment.

[This message has been edited by jcb999 (edited November 02, 2001).]

 

The use of a rubber mallot versus a metal hammer is not going to change the force required to get the balancer on - so no, it really won't make it any easier on the balancer and/or crankshaft thrust bearing.

Plus, I seriously doubt he would get enough force to seat the balancer fully with a rubber mallot.... The thing would be bouncing back and smacking him and anything else near the front of the engine.... Ever hit anything REALLY hard with a rubber mallot? The thing tends to accelerate in the opposite direction that is intended at twice the rate originally applied to it...... Not to mention it just doesn't transfer the force applied to the hammer into the object being hit like a metal hammer does.....

Maybe if it was heated up first, a rubber mallot would work.....

The only benefit to using a rubber mallot versus a metal hammer is it will preserve the actual surface being hit whereas the metal one will tend to deform the object being hit when the forces get high.

That brings me to the heat issue.... To tell you the truth, I have never heard of anyone using the heat method on a balancer but it should help the process out fairly well. The best method is still using the special tool (if you have the tool already or have the cash to buy one) or making an installation tool yourself as others have suggested. But heating the balancer up should help the install process out even when the proper tool is used..... Look at the crank timing gear install for instance...... And the idea that 250* of heat will damage the rubber ring is ludicrous... The balancer gets atleast that hot during extreme operational temperatures and they tend to over-engineer the materials used on cars for the ability to handle high heat (or atleast they usually do..... ).

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1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

the heat has no effect on it.

how do i know?

because if you let your stock 3rdgen sit there with the fans on at 220 and point a temp gun at it, you'll see it reading about 200* anyway.

the diff in this case is that the crank is cool and the balancer is warm.. so it slips on easier.




now that said...




i just use some threaded rod... take your crank bolt, goto the HARDWARE STORE (may i remind you that a "home improvement warehouse" is NOT a hardware store) and get some threaded rod that matches the bolt.

get 2 washers and a nut that threads on.

thread the rod in, slip a washer on, put some grease on the 2nd washer and slip it on (making a washer/grease/washer sandwich) and then put the nut on....
tighten the nut and it should slip right on there.


you may want a 2nd nut to jam on the first incase its a pain to remove the rod.

 

You also have to remember that the heat from the balancer/crank is radiated into the air and the fact the the fan is on wont always give you an accurate reading....I have one of those infrared thermoscanners and if you take the heat measure of an object it says to be as close to it as possible becasue the surrounded air will give false readings, meaning if your shooting somthing 250 degrees at 3 feet away and u move it to 3 inches away, well you could understand the difference....



Why spend 50 bucks on the installer tool when u can rent it for 15, use it and abuse it then return it and get your 15 back?....
This is what i do when i need to pull it or install it...i actually kept 15.90 in my dresser during my buildup lol....


Vader, i think the reason you dont want to post all your mistakes is becasue we all hold you on such a pedestal that you wouldnt want to risk damage to your status

ohhhh man i chuckled on that one heh heh

 

There was a day when SBC's didn't have a threaded crank snout.

 

wow, that must have sucked.

so the next day, he threaded it right? man, youd think hed wait atleast 2 days before doing that............



edit:

was that day a sunday?
i know my machine shop is closed on sundays....

 

Okay, age showing.

Small journal SBC's weren't threaded, the damper was even more of a press fit. I put a '68 327 shortblock in the '57, replacing the original 283, and the 283 damper walked away from the snout the first time I fired it up. I was 17 at the time, didn't have access to a whole bunch of spare parts (large journals had only been around 4 years), local NAPA store didn't have the bolt/washer. I have a vivid mental image of that thing moving out while I watched in horror. Only thing that kept it from coming off entirely was the fan belt.

 

you know i was kiddin right?

there was a day when SBC's didn't have a threaded crank snout.

heh..


btw, the 400 i have now (my only big budget shortblock i ever made) has the first 2 threads of the crank stripped out.
prior to that motor, i had great success using the crank bolt to pull it on... all my motors were worn out freebies or cheapies that i just dumped in the car to keep it going...(this was in high school.. when broke, just keep it runnin)

well this 400 has a new crank and new dampener...i went to put the bolt in my motor.. i remember it exactly. i was 16, and the 400 was on the engine stand in my livingroom.. i was suppost to keep the motor outside, but i would sneek it in while my parents were at work.. i didnt want the dirt, pollen and dust outside in th motor.... as im turning the bolt i get that sickening, this-just-turned-too-easy feeling.. and when i remove the socket... the bolt is on it... with threads.

luckily, it was just the first few threads... after that i did the allthread rod trick and never had a prob.

 

50 bucks for an installer tool? at the local hardware store I could get some threaded rod, a flat washer, and a nut for probably 1.00 and some change... I've never tried it before but for some reason I just wouldn't be comfortable trying to beat a balancer onto the snout of the crank... something tells me the trust bearing wouldn't be very happy... I dunno to each his own, I just don't like forcing things.. others do..

 

stupid idea.

 

I just rent one from autozone for 30 bucks then return it and get my 30 back when I am done. Its that simple.

 

I wonder why GM made it like this, Chysler has a much better system on their smallblocks, the dampner is a vary light slip fit and then it gets held on by a huge thick washer and a large fine thread screw that takes I think a 1 1/4" socket to tighten, it's pretty easy to get it on and off plus you can use the screw head to turn the engine over unlike the little Chevy screw where it will break off if you try this.

 

Whats so stupid about using threaded rod to pull the balancer on?

I too wonder why GM didnt make the balancer go on easier, but I think there may not be enough material in the crank snout to support a larger bolt and the forces placed on the crank snout at the same time

 

as TomP said, you could strip the threads out.

 

You really need to go back and re-read what he said. The correct method is with the 'tool' which is a threaded rod/washer deal.

 

wow old thread, thanks for the support fella's, I didn't think it was that stupid of an idea, i mean thats all an installer is, i just never realized they actually sold it and called it a tool til i went to school, my dad showed me how to do it when i was 12 or 13 and i always assumed it was just a collection of hardware and its what i've used everytime i installed a balancer, still do even though the snap on guy offered to sell me one for some cracked out price, lifetime warrenty of course, but my "home made" one has served me well probably over 30 times now and if it ever should break i'll woefully stick my hand under my drivers seat and find the cash for a new one.

 

Reread the thread, and then go do a search on the internet. Get a good look at the installation tools. Then edit your post.

 

Banged 'em on with a hand sledge and a block of wood many times. Never hurt the engine that I am aware of.

Installed them many times with the correct tool, too. Never had a problem with the tool, either.

The easiest method? The correct tool is by far the easiest way. Makes it so simple there's just no excuse not to rent one. Hammers are for hitting nails. Use on balancers is recommended only in extreme emergency.

 

Yep, the hammer and wood method seems to work pretty good. I have had to install the balancers on engines w/o threads as well. I used to work for an old drag racer, he had a special tool for his air chisel, it would fit into the balancer and he'd just hammer it on. I asked him about the thrust bearing and his only comment was "No problem kid, you put oil on it didn't you?"