Hey you guys I have a quick question about the Mini Ram. Will I be able to pass emissions with a Mini Ram? I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico if that helps at all. If I can’t, what should I do so that I can pass emissions? I just want to know if I have to put on the old TPI intake every time I need to pass emissions, this would really suck!!! Well let me know if you guys have any knowledge of this. Thanks.

 

I would imagine it would pass, so long as you still have your cat(s) and your computer is in good tune.

 

Well I still have my cat but once i get my motor in and running im going to have to tune the computer. I dont know if this will effect my emissions, but my motor is pretty built its a 383 and the only stock part is the block o yah and the ignition system, i dont want to write everything down right now! I really hope my car passes emmissions!! I really dont know what I will do if it doesnt pass. haha well thanks and let me know what you think!!

 

Im not sure if its in all places but i heard if you fail the first test but do xx% better on a later test you can pass.

 

That’s some good news then!! I know it’s a little bit out but I’m hoping to have my car running buy the middle of January. And at that time I’m going to have to pass emissions, so I will let you all know what happens!!

 

You can bet your paycheck that a guy that lives in the Nortwest Territories of Canada telling you that he "heard" something, won't hold alot of weight when you're standing at the license plate counter in Albuquerque New Mexico and they won't give you a plate because your car isn't legal.

I've never "heard" what he reports, myself; but then again there's lots of people in the world talking that I haven't heard, and wouldn't pay any attention to even if I did hear them. Maybe it's true where he is, as far as that goes. But I myself wouldn't bet a few thousand dollars worth of an engine build on what somebody in a foreign country said he "heard" about the law in my country. But that's because I'm sofakingdom I have to find out everything for myself from the real authority, I don't trust anybody.

Check with your local laws, and find out how they enforce them; they're the only ones that matter.

 

It was on these boards that i "heard" about passing from improvement, thats why i said im not sure. I know some places down there are alot more strict about emissions than others.


As for me i dont have to pass any emissions testing

And yes your best bet is to go downtown and get a copy of your local laws regarding emissions. That way you will know exactly what you need and dont need to pass.

 

That's all well and good; but somehow I don't think that added bit of info will help him very much at the license plate counter

You're exactly right, some places in the US are ALOT more strict than others. Some places don't inspect at all, others are about like going to the proctologist. Most places (especially any kind of metro areas) are somewhere in between. In this country, we just all have to find out what our own local laws are, which vary form state to state, county to county, and town to town. There's no generalization possible, except that the federal law states that no "tampering" is allowed. Like I said though, enforcement is the thing that makes the difference, and that's the local variable.

 

Well I know that you guys are saying is right and I do need to find out exactly what laws are held in my state. I am just afraid that it wont be leagal! And I really dont want to go with a super ram. So I guess right now I am between a rock and a hard place.

 

Ever had your car through inspection before?

What did they do?

I can't blame you for not wanting a SuperRam; although they can be made to run pretty good, they are the ultimate PITA of all available systems known to man, as far as any kind of maintenance.

 

Well its kinda bad they always pop the hood and take a quick look, and stick the sensor up the tail pipe. To tell you the truth the last time I personally was at the inspection was when I had a jeep. When my car was running before I started the build the motor was pretty much stock and I had my dad take it to get inspected because I could not get time off from work. My friend that owns a 02 firehawk told me that when he got his car´s emission tested the guy that did the test searched the car like crazy. The guy looked in the engine bay and got on his hands and knews and looked under the car as well! I am just hoping that the guy never seen a set up like the one i will have and just pass me! But probably wont happen, im not that lucky!! Any recomendations. I guess, if all else fails i can put the stock tpi intake on for the test and after the test put the mini ram back on. And runing the risk of getting caught!!! I know not very smart. Well let me know what you think

 

It doesnt seem right that they wouldnt let you use an aftermarket intake setup so long as the emissions output is the same or lower than the stock setup.

But its probably some guy that drives a Geo or firefly that made up the damn laws


Give it a go on the emissions test with the new setup and if it doesnt pass throw on the original setup and hope you dont get caught later on!

 

Yah thats what im thinking too!! I know that when a car is new from the factory the emissions law state that there can only be 10 parts per million of carbon dioxid (or some other gas, i cant remeber the exact kind; im a business person not a science person!!) but once its out of the factory it goes up to about 100 parts per million. I do think that the set up would pass the emissions test (tail pipe), but you probably right about the guy that made up the damn law!!! hahaha Well I will let you guys know what happens it probably wont be till mid Jan. thats when i am hoping my car will be running. If anyone else has comments please let me know.

Thanks!

 

Do you have a visual inspection like we have in Ca?
Or just a tailpipe insp?
Visual is where the tech pops the hood and makes sure that any part under there that isn't stock is 50 state compliant.
If you have tailpipe only, you ought to be able to make it pass. You might have to buy a new cam if the one you have is too big. You might have to connect an aux EGR of some sort too.
You should find out if Ariz requires an EGR.
Some LT1 guys are passing tailpipe in ca with a 224*@.050 cam with a 112 lsa.
If that would pass in a Ca LT1, it should pass in an Ariz miniram.
At least that's my guess.

 

im not 100% sure if they do under the hood inspections here in new mexico, my cam is around 224 in / 230 ex with .51 lift, with 114 lsa, and I got 1.6 rockers. I mean i know that they do pop the hood and take a look but i dont know how much they look. Im thinking Im just going to go for it and see if i can pass w/ the computer set up for passing emissions! if it doesnt pass due to a visual inspection then ill just put on the old tpi intake and try again, at a different location!!

 

Well I found out emissions laws here in Albquerque, New Mexico. I think I am screwed!! I think I am going to have to swap in the TPI intake for the test. This is what I found:

2. Pollution Control Equipment (tamper check) - The Air Care Inspector checks that the catalytic converter, air injection system and oxygen sensor are properly installed and are original or approved replacements. Tampering (removing or disconnecting equipment) was more prevalent in the introductory years of pollution control equipment than it is today.

5. OBDII Testing (vehicle computer) - The OBDII test monitors the vehicles on board computer for components that are not operating properly (the check engine light is part of this system) and determines the condition of the vehicles emissions equipment.

Well it looks like to me ill be getting a visual inspection and a computer check out!! If they do an in depth computer check there going to see that the set up is nothing close to stock. What should I do about this?!!

 

You don't have to worry about OBD II since it didn't come out until the mid 90's. Yours is OBD I so, of the two tests you posted, you should only have to worry about the tamper check.

 

Thats good news!!! I just hope I can pass the tamper check!! Correct me if Im worng but the only thing that the mini ram is missing is the egr?? Or are there more things that are missing. Im guessing that I will have a couple more wires hanging around, What should I do with those wires. And does the mini ram use an o2 sensor? Well thanks again you guys!!

 

The Miniram does not "use" an O2 sensor (or "not use" one either for that matter). The O2 sensor goes in the exhaust.

However, more than likely, whatever computer you use to control a Miniram-equipped engine, whether the computer is stock or aftermarket, will use an O2 sensor. The control system's need to measure the result of its fuel delivery, and to then correct its delivery accordingly, has nothing to do with the lump of aluminum the air passes through on its way to the cylinders.

I don't know exactly what you mean by "missing". You'll still have a throttle body, which will have a TPS and probably an IAC; you'll have a CTS; there'll be some fuel rails with injectors, and a FPR; there'll be a hole for the distributor to poke through; you'll have an exhaust, which can include where the O2 will go, if you make wise decisions; a knock sensor will go in the coolant drain plug hole in the block; and so forth. If you're putting this in a MAF car and you retain the stock computer with the MAF hookup, you can even put that back right where and how it was. There's plenty of places for vacuum lines and PCV hookups, if you use the right throttle body. There's no reason you can't put the AIR system back like it was, and of course the cat; nothing about the Miniram requires you to hack all that stuff off. Basically, everything ELSE besides the EGR, can go back just like it was; and as long as they don't "visual" your car for that specific piece, and as long as it passes whatever "sniffer" test it has to pass, it'll be fine.

You need to find out what your inspection procedure is, and make your decision accordingly. It sounds to me like some education and research is in order.

The lump of aluminum on top up there, aside from lacking exhaust crossover passages to carry exhaust to an EGR valve and a boss to mount the valve on, doesn't have too much to do with the rest of that stuff.

 

Just as an aside:

I lived in one place, where they didn't look at anything at all; they just sniffed the car. At idle only, not even on a dyno. A retarded Borneo orangutan could make almost anything pass that test.

I lived in an "enhanced" emissions area in Southern California for a while. Inspection there, was literally like the proctologist. They got out a book (actually, the catalog of one of the mfrs of replacement emissions parts), and went looking for every single piece that was supposed to be there, one by one. Every hose, every sensor (which they even checked for the color of the cap), every wire, everything. They checked the ignition timing with a light. The idle speed had to be within 50 RPM or something of the stock spec. They let it sit and idle for 20 minutes. They ran the car on a dyno. They made sure the Check Engine light came on when it was supposed to and remained off for the duration of the test. There were hundreds of ways for the car to fail that inspection. It was invasive. A Miniram would NOT have passed the visual, guaranteed.

Where I live now, visual consists of looking for a cat; and then they dyno it. They never pop the hood. The specs it has to meet on the dyno are more stringent than the OE specs.

That should give you a clue about how variable these things are.

 

Ok thanks for that information! I will find out how in deapth these test are!! I also have one more question. Now please correct me if Im wrong, ok do the air tubes of the headers go to the egr? MY understanding of this system is that exaust gas is passed through the air tubes in the headers to the egr. Now if this is correct and I put on a mini ram (which doesnt have an egr) what should I do with the air hose? I mean I got the slp headers with the air system to pass emissions, but if I will no longer have an egr what do I do with the hoses? Well if you guys have the answer to this please let me know. Thanks a million

 

Your understanding is incorrect.

The AIR system and the EGR system are completely separate. They have nothing whatsoever to do with each other; except that they both touch the exhaust (at different places though), they are both emissions "accessories", and their acronyms both have 3 letters.

EGR is Exhaust Gas Recirculation. Its purpose is to contaminate the incoming air/fuel charge to the cylinders with a little bit of exhaust gas, to reduce combustion speed and therefore to lower peak cylinder pressure, in order to prevent or at least reduce the formation of oxides of nitrogen. It usually uses a passage in the heads from the center 2 exhaust ports, across the center of the heads to the intake, to a valve on the top of the intake that opens when commanded by the ECM. SBCs have had the heat crossover passages since they were introduced in 1955; they just added a passage to tap off of it when EGR was introduced in the late 60s, and back then, the control system was very crude and led to dramatically reduced power output (unlike computer-controlled EGR which has zero effect on HP). Some later model cars (TPI Vettes in particular) lacked the heat crossover in the heads, so they have a little tube that brings exhaust up to the passage in the intake.

AIR is a little pump that forces air into the exhaust system and a valve system to control it, to supply oxygen to burn any leftover unburned fuel components. After all, a catalytic converter can't just somehow mysteriously fabricate oxygen. In order for a cat to do anything at all, there HAS TO BE some extra oxygen in the gas stream. If the engine isn't running too lean to the point that there's leftover oxygen that way, some has to be introduced some other way.

The Miniram lasks the heat crossover passage that stock intakes have, and therefore does not support EGR. However none of that has any connection whatsoever with the air injection system.

In general, modern emission-control systems have virtually no effect on an engine's power output, unlike the cruder designs when they were first introduced. AIR takes about .5 HP to run; and EGR can actually be used to increase gas mileage, by allowing more ignition timing and therefore leaner cruise mixtures. People still carry around the implanted "knowledge" and rumor and myth left over from those early systems, and hack their cars without understanding that they're accomplishing nothing except making their life more difficult at inspection time.

 

WOW!!!! That was a really good in-deapth answer!! Thanks a million! Well that answers my question about the hole air system. And now I know that my heads do not meet emission standards!! I got some pro topline, pro lightning heads and they dont have that cross over passage, so I guess it doesnt matter If I have an EGR because it wouldnt work!! Well it still maters for the visual inspection. Does anyone have any sugestions with this, to make a fake EGR for the visual inspection for the mini ram??

 

I suppose you could just glue one on maybe somewhere under the plenum with some gorilla snot or something, so that if they look for one, at least there will be one there.

First thing though, is to find out if they're even going to open the hood and look; and then if they do look, is that one of the things they'll be looking for.

 

Ok thanks a lot. Im going to start a new thred now asking about the fake egr.

 

lol, glue a EGR valve on the intake

What happens if he touches it?

 

The LT1s have no exh crossover passage, yet they are equipped with EGR.
I'm not sure if it would be possible or not... But if the only thing that was preventing you from passing with your miniram was the lack of the EGR, there might be a way to retrofit it.
The GMPP vortec conversion kit uses a tube that pipes the exh gasses directly from the ex manifold to the EGR valve to overcome the lack of a crossover passage in the vortec heads.
Where to place the EGR would be the issue then. I'm not sure there's anywhere to put it on a miniram where it would be functional.

The big question would be, How close to factory original is your engine required to be?
Does it need to have the entire factory system intact and un-tampered with.? Or would an aftermarket EFI system with all the smog controls intact be acceptable?

 

I guess I would fail!!! hahaha. That would be no good!

 

This is all the information that I have for the visual.

2. Pollution Control Equipment (tamper check) - The Air Care Inspector checks that the catalytic converter, air injection system and oxygen sensor are properly installed and are original or approved replacements. Tampering (removing or disconnecting equipment) was more prevalent in the introductory years of pollution control equipment than it is today.

 

So it's like here in AZ. All those jokers look for is Cat(s) under the car and an air system. So a smog pump and air tubes coming out of the manifolds/headers. I wouldn't worry about the EGR at that point. Hell, with the TPI system, if you don't know what the EGR looks like, you will never even see it....depening on what side they are standing on.

If you want more info, talk with ChrisFormula355. I'm not sure if he still visits the boards anymore but he knows a lot about what they check for and the training that they go through. Oh yeah, there are lots of people running without EGR on these cars so it shouldn't be an issue if your running clean.

 

Is it possible? Yes, depending on where you are and what your state's laws are.

 

Well, I sure hope the guy that checks my car is a joker, well i guess i will look into the aux egr. But I think Im going to try to pass it without one!!!

 

Well I posted the question about the remote EGR at ls1lt1.com so I hope those guys can also give me some pointers. I will let you guys know what they have to say!!

 

What intake is available for a 383 stroker that would be both emissions legal in California and still allow for good HP and torque?

Thanks

 

SuperRam.

 

Time to start making friends on local boards, preferably ones that do inspections...

 

depending on how harsh the laws are it wouldn't shock me.

some states I can't put a ls1 in my rx7 because that isn't what came stock on the car.
even though the ls1 would get better gas mileage, have lower emissions, and basicly be more of a motor they want as far as saving the enviroment just because it didn't come stock means I can't do it legally.
even if I hooked it up and took it to smog and it passed with flying colors a lot better then what my mazda ever would of done. I would fail

 

something you may want to look into is if they have something like what we have here in Texas on our safety inspection & emissions test.
here we have a training mode, it goes through the complete test, both safety & emissions just as if it were the real thing except it doesn't make the 2 phone calls to the state, so it doesn't matter if you fail or not, nothing goes to the state.
if they have something like it where you are & you pass it then you should be good to go for the real test.
if they do have it, you will probably have to pay to have it done, here the real safety & emissions test is $39.50 pass or fail, a training mode test is around $15~20.00 dollars.