This may not appear to some as, Tech but it definately interests me and most likely others aswell. Look at the engine specs/ capabilies of this vechichle and follow the link to find out more. I'm posting this because i find it interesting.

On a quiet Sunday morning in Silicon Valley, I am standing atop a machine code-named Ginger--a machine that may be the most eagerly awaited and wildly, if inadvertently, hyped high-tech product since the Apple Macintosh. Fifty feet away, Ginger's diminutive inventor, Dean Kamen, is offering instruction on how to use it, which in this case means waving his hands and barking out orders.

SEGWAY'S SPECS

COST: About $8,000 for industrial models; consumer versions may cost $3,000.

MAXIMUM SPEED: 5 m.p.h. to 17 m.p.h., depending on settings

RANGE: About 17 miles per battery charge on level ground; decelerating or going downhill generates electricity, extending its range

RECHARGE TIME: One hour of charge for two hours of operation

PAYLOAD: Passenger — 250 lbs. Cargo — 75 lbs.

WEIGHT: 65 or 80 lbs., depending on the model




"Just lean forward," Kamen commands, so I do, and instantly I start rolling across the concrete right at him.

"Now, stop," Kamen says. How? This thing has no brakes. "Just think about stopping." Staring into the middle distance, I conjure an image of a red stop sign--and just like that, Ginger and I come to a halt.

"Now think about backing up." Once again, I follow instructions, and soon I glide in reverse to where I started. With a twist of the wrist, I pirouette in place, and no matter which way I lean or how hard, Ginger refuses to let me fall over. What's going on here is all perfectly explicable--the machine is sensing and reacting to subtle shifts in my balance--but for the moment I am slack-jawed, baffled. It was Arthur C. Clarke who famously observed that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." By that standard, Ginger is advanced indeed.

Since last January it has also been the tech world's most-speculated-about secret. That was when a book proposal about Ginger, a.k.a. "IT," got leaked to the website Inside.com. Kamen had been working on Ginger for more than a decade, and although the author (with whom the inventor is no longer collaborating) never revealed what Ginger was, his precis included over-the-top assessments from some of Silicon Valley's mightiest kingpins. As big a deal as the PC, said Steve Jobs; maybe bigger than the Internet, said John Doerr, the venture capitalist behind Netscape, Amazon.com and now Ginger.

In a heartbeat, hundreds of stories full of fevered theorizing gushed forth in the press. Ginger was a hydrogen-powered hovercraft. Or a magnetic antigravity device. Or, closer to the mark, a souped-up scooter. Even the reprobates at South Park got into the act, spoofing Ginger in a recent episode--the details of which, sadly, are unprintable in a family magazine.

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Enter Your Choice:




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This week the guessing game comes to an end as Kamen unveils his baby under its official name: Segway. Given the buildup, some are bound to be disappointed. ("It won't beam you to Mars or turn lead into gold," shrugs Kamen. "So sue me.") But there is no denying that the Segway is an engineering marvel. Developed at a cost of more than $100 million, Kamen's vehicle is a complex bundle of hardware and software that mimics the human body's ability to maintain its balance. Not only does it have no brakes, it also has no engine, no throttle, no gearshift and no steering wheel. And it can carry the average rider for a full day, nonstop, on only five cents' worth of electricity.

The commercial ambitions of Kamen and his team are as advanced as their technical virtuosity. By stealing a slice of the $300 billion-plus transportation industry, Doerr predicts, the Segway Co. will be the fastest outfit in history to reach $1 billion in sales. To get there, the firm has erected a 77,000-sq.-ft. factory a few miles from its Manchester, N.H., headquarters that will be capable of churning out 40,000 Segways a month by the end of next year.

Kamen's aspirations are even grander than that. He believes the Segway "will be to the car what the car was to the horse and buggy." He imagines them everywhere: in parks and at Disneyland, on battlefields and factory floors, but especially on downtown sidewalks from Seattle to Shanghai. "Cars are great for going long distances," Kamen says, "but it makes no sense at all for people in cities to use a 4,000-lb. piece of metal to haul their 150-lb. asses around town." In the future he envisions, cars will be banished from urban centers to make room for millions of "empowered pedestrians"--empowered, naturally, by Kamen's brainchild.

Kamen's dream of a Segway-saturated world won't come true overnight. In fact, ordinary folks won't be able to buy the machines for at least a year, when a consumer model is expected to go on sale for about $3,000. For now, the first customers to test the Segway will be deep-pocketed institutions such as the U.S. Postal Service and General Electric, the National Parks Service and Amazon.com--institutions capable of shelling out about $8,000 apiece for industrial-strength models. And Kamen's dreamworld won't arrive at all unless he and his team can navigate the array of obstacles that are sure to be thrown up by competitors and ever cautious regulators.

For the past three months, Kamen has allowed TIME behind the veil of secrecy as he and his team grappled with the questions that they will confront--about everything from safety and pricing to the challenges of launching a product with the country at war and the economy in recession. Some of their answers were smooth and assured; others less polished. But one thing was clear. As Kamen sees it, all these issues will quickly fade if the question most people ask about the Segway is "How do I get one?"

http://www.time.com/time/business/ar...186660,00.html

 

Have you actually -seen- this thing? I mean c'mon. It's so dumb. No one will pay 3G's for one, not to mention it's unpractical and clunky.

It's worse than those dumb scooters on roller blade wheels that came out a few years back...

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1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.

C'mon, spin 'em for papa...
http://www.xenodrgn.f2s.com/Frontright.jpg

[This message has been edited by Xenodrgn (edited December 04, 2001).]

 

They showed this scooter-thing on the news last night. Kinda cool toy I guess, for nice summer days, but as a replacement for cars?! I don't think us car people have anything to worry about.. what are you gonna do when it rains, snows, or is -10 deg.F outside?!

 

That thing is so neat!!! Thats exactly what I needed to get me around McDonalds, I hate walking all the way back up to the counter for refills on my super sized soda!!!!
Seriously though, why the hell would I want one of those?
Are we really getting that lazy?

 

Saw them on the news last night.Just what the lazy silicon valley yuppies need!An overpriced electric scooter to go with their overpriced electric cars!Anyone that pays 3 grand for one of these should be shot.
Death to electric vehicles of all kinds!
Long live the internal combustion engine!
Nuke the middle East and drill for oil in Alaska.Wait, I'm ranting.........
Sorry.
-Rich-

 

Geez, how lazy is America getting, and we wonder why there is such an obesity problem in the US.

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2 Tickets to game= $250
Gas= $20
Sitting 20ft. from MJ= Priceless
'86 IROC T-TOPS, TINTED WINDOWS, BRAKE LIGHT BLACKOUTS
GM GOODWRENCH 350
EDELBROCK HEADERS Hooker CatBack
EDELBROCK 600CFM CARB.
KN AIRFILTER
ACCEL HEI DISTRIBUTOR
160* Stat, just switched to 180* b/c of winter coming and going to college in the mts.
3:73 Posi Rebuilt 700R4
B&M Megashifter, 5" Autometer Tach w/shift lite

 

I read that entire article yesterday, and I have yet to think of one more practical use other than local mail delivery, and even that is stretching it. I thought that maybe they were going to go for some sort of "It's good for the enviroment idea", but, as far as I'm aware, walking has been enviromentaly safe since we started doing it. I don't think there is any middle ground between walking and driving a car that would require the use of Segway. If it is too far to walk I get in the car. It is that simple.

EDIT: Damn my lack of grammar checking.

[This message has been edited by watchmesuck (edited December 04, 2001).]

 

I dunno, I'd bet it would have a great following in the disabled community. 3g's is probably cheaper than a wheelchair for Quadraplegic<sp?>

 

In the article it says that he already built a wheelchair for the disabled. That chair sounded like it looked like a tank. I think this thing is supposed to "change the world" and "revolutionize the way we get around" for people who can already get around on their own and who would probably be better off continuing to do so.

 

A couple of things that I think are cool about this thing:

1) There must be a speed limiter on there, and it should be able to be disabled.

2) The control systems for this thing must be extremely good. Take a thing like a scooter that's inherintly unstable, and some controls, sensors, etc, and it's able to keep a 200lb person balanced. I'm taking a control systems course right now so that's why I'm so impressed with it. It's sort if like the inverted pendulum trick, but even more complicated.

Anyway, I think it's neat, and it will be great for people living and working in downtown areas where there's not much room for cars.

 

The biggest problems with it:

- It can't go up curbs, so you have to lift the 80 pound thing up each curb.
- It costs several thousand dollars.
- Where do you park it when you go inside?
- You can't use it indoors unless you are really short, because you will hit your head constantly.
- Most city sidewalks are too narrow for two of these things to pass each other.
- You wouldn't want to use it in cold or wet weather.
- You look like a geek on it.

The only uses I could see for it would be moving around really large facilities (like factories, warehouses, or hangers) where there are no stairs or curbs.

As for electric cars:
I have no beef against electric cars. You can get some serious torque out of electric motors. And, they are really simple to operate (almost no maintenance or breakdowns), and can be replaced easily. The problem right now is that today's battery technology sucks.

 

If you remove all the extra computer systems, gyroscopes, etc... and replace them with a third wheel, you'd save a lot of electricity and increase the device's range and possibly speed.

 

Yes

 

Hmmm... Those things are like wheel chairs, so what were doing is paying $3000 dollars to pretend were handicapped. Thats ironic considering there are people who would give anything to be able to walk again.


I wonder how much better all these battery powered vehicles are for the enviroment, I mean, you have to make these batteries, and from what I understand thats some pretty nasty **** that goes on.
I wonder if we make more pollution manufactring these batteries?
anybody?

 

C'mon guy's think a bit. Everyone dissed the car when it came into existance. I mean why buy a car when you can have a horse? I'm not sure how many hp the model t had or even how mant ft/lbs of torque it had but im sure it was nothing to brag about. In reality, if these things are given room to grow, who says they wont boast 80 hp And c'mon we all know what good weight to power does... Who cares about the good fuel economy? Not me, it's just an added bonus boys. But, only time will tell.

 

Reminds me of going to the health club, and seeing someone trolling for the closest parking place...

It probably isn't going to replace the car or anything like that for obvious practical reasons, but I can see uses for such a thing indoors, like warehouses and such. But on the other hand, if the control system (separate from the drive system) could be adapted to cars or airplanes or whatever, it sure would make them easier to operate.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

IT is right up there with Sony's $2000 robot dog.

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Bill Rockhold
92 Camaro RS, 305 TBI M5
SCCA Solo2

 

It looks like a toy to me. The technology is good, but it's not very practical. As far a electric cars go, look at it this way: Where does the energy to propel an electric car come from--the batteries. Where does the energy in the batteries come from--a powerplant somewhere(you have to charge them somehow). Powerplants pollute, sometimes just as bad as internal combustion cars. An electric car just transfers the pollution from the car to the powerplant--how exactly does that help? Electricity isn't the answer. Clean energy production is what we need.



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350 with stealth intake, holley carb, 470 lift cam. 700r4 with .5 boost valve, vette servo, tci lock-up kit, B&M megashifter. Richmond 3.73 gears, powertrax locker, timkin bearings, synthetic lube. Custom 3 inch single into 2 2.5 pipes. 1 1/2 drop springs, 1 5/16 solid front sway bar, 1 inch rear bar, custom subframe connectors, custom LCA relocation brackets. Kobel ground FX, currant red metallic paint. Lots of other stuff...
82camaro

 

I had to take an environment course for college once. You hit the nail right on the head. The pollution always comes from somewhere. The gasoline motor spits it right out, the "no emissions" electric car has to be charged from a coal burning electrical plant, and so on...

You'd be surprised how fanatical environmentalists can be. It's almost like a religion. The internet is bad for the environment because people order stuff that's delivered by trucks...
Walking is bad for the environment because it releases the greehouse gas CO2...
Body heat from the population boom causes global warming...


Sorry 'bout all that. Greenies make me mad. I'll get off the soapbox now. Let me end with this quote.

"So, Mother Nature wants to call it quits just because she's losing? Well, she should have thought of that before she sent all those plagues and floods, and poison monkeys!" -C. Montomery Burns

 

People talk about using them in warehouses, mail delivery, etc. But where's the payload area?! Your hands are already occupied with the handlebars, so you can't even really carry anything. Besides, they've already developed an electric vehicle for use in warehouses.. the Hi-lo!


Except in rural areas possibly, I can't see the mail carriers liking these things. In my neighborhood, the mail carriers walk across the grass and up a 3 or 4 step porch to put the mail in the box. How could they do that on a scooter? They'd have to keep on the sidewalks, and get off every time to walk up the steps. Throw ice or snow into the mix, and these little scooters are gonna be a disaster. I don't see ABS or traction control being a viable option on something like this!

 

Um, BLATANTLY WRONG.

Sorry, large powerplants and electric cars are hugely (we are talking orders of magnitudes) more efficient and less polluting than internal combustion engines. Even if the powerplants are coal burners. I've researched this.

In addition, electic motors can recharge the batteries when you hit the brakes, instead of just turning it all into heat on your rotors and pads.

 

I'd like to see a pic of this thing, sounds pretty wild. Now then, I'm a techie, I work on all kinds of designs and projects (as a hobby), a lot of which aren't very healthy for humanity. (and I'm not talking pollution and crap) Everyone like to have something they can be a nutcase over. Some of us choose the enviornment, (I say if we're gonna be that ignorant we might as well let it go to pot, worst thing taht would happen is we die off and planet earth cleans it self back up and starts over) others say we need to give poor people our money we worked hard for so that they don't have to suffer so much. (how about giving that poor person a job so they can earn their own damn money?)

To keep this short what I'm saying is so what? why is this such a big deal to a bunch of gas drinking, fume emitting, pavement pounding, rubber burning, rice stomping muscle car drivers? Not to sound like a flame or anything, but even if everyone in the world drove an electric car, I'd still be driving my V8 RS till the day I die, just because I like it.

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Hondas get all the girls.
Camaro's get all the women.

'89 Camaro RS T-top L03, T5, 3.08 10 bolt stock rear, Edelbrock Pro-Flow filter, more to come as the money flows....

 

If I can't put a glasspack and hood scoop on it then I don't want it!

Fuel cells will probably be the fuel of the near future, its by-product is water--NO EMMISSIONS!. The space shuttle has used them since the 80's. But I don't know how anything else about them.

 

Originally posted by MichaelRBrumm:
The biggest problems with it:

- It can't go up curbs, so you have to lift the 80 pound thing up each curb.

Think I did see it go up some stairs when they showed some stuff on TV so it must do curbs also

- It costs several thousand dollars.

yup

- Where do you park it when you go inside?

closet? hehe

- You can't use it indoors unless you are really short, because you will hit your head constantly.

only lifts you 8 inches, humm yeah, I'd be hitting my head

- Most city sidewalks are too narrow for two of these things to pass each other.

they say it's the same width of your sholders or very close to it

- You wouldn't want to use it in cold or wet weather.

hang a tarp over your head

- You look like a geek on it.

while going 12 mph

The only uses I could see for it would be moving around really large facilities (like factories, warehouses, or hangers) where there are no stairs or curbs.

right, except for the part about stairs and curbs

The tech behind this thing is pretty cool though I think.

 

Yeah, good luck buying gas for it.
Did you own a car back in the 60's or 70's? You know how you can't buy leaded gas for it anymore? Or high octane gas? What do you think gas stations will do when the whole world embraces electric cars?

No, it won't be this year, probably won't be for fifty years or so, but in my opinion, the later, the better.

Long live internal combustion!

 

Just a little chemistry lesson for you all. In a combustion reaction, the products are always CO2 and H2O. You only get pollutants when you have an incomplete combustion reaction. Work on perfecting a fast-combustion reaction and we solve our problems. If we could measure out (to the atom) exactly how much air and fuel make it into the cumbustion chamber, and calculate exactly how much energy it will take to react the two together, we'd have IC engines and no pollution. The best we can do is ballpark the figure, and hope for the best.

------------------
1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.

C'mon, spin 'em for papa...
http://www.xenodrgn.f2s.com/Frontright.jpg

[This message has been edited by Xenodrgn (edited December 06, 2001).]

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Xenodrgn:
[b] Just a little chemistry lesson for you all. In a combustion reaction, the products are always CO2 and H2O.

This is not TRUE! H20 is only produced in hydro carbon combustion reactions *wink*
(please let me be right please let me be right)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DUGMAZE:
[B]If I can't put a glasspack and hood scoop on it then I don't want it!
You guys this gentleman has hit the neail right on the head... Can you imagina trying to hot rod one of these things out? can you imagine what 1/4 times will be like? We'll all be rejoicing at a 10 SECOND gain not a tenth of a second...

 

just put machine guns on that bad larry and it will be the guy from twisted metal, and we will be off to fight the taliban. anyway have you heard about the american fighting for the taliban, he's going to get his *** kicked if he comes back here, and yes i would put in some kicks

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90 RS 305 tbi, 4 3/4" cowl Hood, Edelbrock TES headers, Flowmaster exhaust, Crane roller cam, comp roller rockers, vortec heads/intake, ported tbi, w/new injectors, MSD probillet Distributer/ coil, 1 inch tbi spacer, air foil, 14x4 k&n flat base air cleaner, Rebuilt 700r4 w/ B&M shift kit, B&M Megashifter, 3.23 posi, 2 12 RF's with mtx amp, top of line alpine cd player,autometer phantom gauges, soon to have 91-92 gfx, z-28 wing, new paintjob, rims, all new suspension, and new inteior

 

Careful fellas, pretty soon there will be a @#$#^.org website that will tell you just how to reach that 13 sec 1/4

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ORIGINAL OWNER
92 Camaro RS, LO3, 5-spd, T-tops

Performance:
K&N Open Air Filter, Partial TBI mods, Edelbrock performer TBI intake, Fastchip Prom, Timing +4 degrees, Centerforce clutch, Xact 8mm wires, SLP 1 3/4" Headers (coated), Flowmaster Catback Exhaust, Richmond 3:42 gears, Torsen HD Posi
Sights & Sounds:
Alpine 8030 Alarm System, Valentine One Radar Detector (How did I ever drive without one?), Pioneer DEH 7450 Head Unit w/6-pack CD changer, Pioneer DEQ 7600 Sound Processor, 2 Kenwood KAC-846 Amps powering 2 12" Pro Red subs, 2 Pioneer 6x9 and 2 MTX 4x6 speakers. Spectre valve covers and accessories, Z28 grille w/aftermarket lights, MacEwen whiteface gauges
NEXT UP: the rest of the TBI mods & Suspension upgrades

 

I'll make my own damn gas if I have to. hehe :-D

------------------
Hondas get all the girls.
Camaro's get all the women.

'89 Camaro RS T-top L03, T5, 3.08 10 bolt stock rear, Edelbrock Pro-Flow filter, more to come as the money flows....

 

Sorry, wrong. It went up ramps, not stairs. And the ramps weren't very steep either. It does not go up stairs or curbs. You have to get off, and lift the 80 pound. Maybe you could go down stairs, but that might not be very comfortable.

In less than 20 years, you won't even be able to afford the gas, because oil itself will be so scarse. Almost all of the oil we get today is from wells that are drying up. It is true that we are constantly finding new wells, but they are all little tiny things. Good thing we've got another century's worth of coal and nuclear power, or we'd be really screwed.

Sounds like you are the one who needs a chemistry lesson. That is only true when you are reacting oxygen with a molecule that is made of carbon and hydrogen (and possibly oxygen too, like sugars).

If you are reacting oxygen with hydrogen, you only get H20 (water). This is what is done in hydrogen burning motors and hydrogen fuel cells.

Finally, combustion doesn't even require oxygen. There are plenty of oxygen-free reactants that give off heat and light when mixed.

 

Proof, please. I'd like the numbers in pollutants generated per mile travelled, with the supporting math to back up your research.

 

This is another attempt by the handicap PGA to take over the world with a bad excuse for transportation. First the cart with the little top, now the scooter. The latter doesn't even have a spot for a cooler. Bastids.

 

Does it follow federal guidlines and pass a 7 mph crash test with little or no damage to the driver or vehicle? I wonder if ginger will speed up and catch your soaring carcass when you do the 12 mph sprint into the potholes of tomorrow. How much was spent on this? I would prefer a cell phone that worked, and a company that could run it with out the "crook factor." I have a bike that goes a lot faster than 13 mph, and it runs on pizza. It climbs curbs, and if they are spaced right, I can go down steps. I spent $400, it weights less than 25 pounds and when I ride this thing, I don't feel a need to lean all the way to one side to see if it will tip, cause I'm smart enough to ride it like it was intended. When I go strolling through the park on this miraculous device I like to call a bicycle, nobody looks at me in amazement, yet there I go....smoothly along, efficiently, quietly and I consume very little more width on a sidewalk than my shoulders width. I don't think there will be cities built around this thing, and after 6 months, when the hype dies down, there won't even be a store built around this. A motorcycle gets over 40 miles per gallon, as does a scooter, and you can even sit down on them. There are headlights, turn signals, after some brainwashing and rigorous training, after you think about stopping, the tightening of your hand on the brake tends to do the very same thing. True, there are no poitive results from stopping, but the efficiency of the stopping in any electronic device can't be more than 10% of the energy spent to attain those speed. I will spend my pasttime being impressed by centerforce, GM (-their recent bad decision to cease production of you know who) and the overall ingorance of our masses.

 

The big powerplants do at least have economies of scale on their side.. However they also have graft, corruption, and political lobbyists so I would think the best we could hope for is that the two would cancel out and the end result would be that the plants' pollution would be no WORSE then our gas-burning cars..

 

Well, sorry, I'm not planning on doing all that research and calculations myself. Here are some examples of other people's work.

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deput...ons_062596.htm

http://www.calstart.org/resources/papers/emission.html

http://www.radix.net/~futurev/pwrplnt.pdf


And here is a fast car (a 1979 Mazda RX-7 converted to electric):

http://store.wilde-evolutions.com/wilde/mazda.html

I'd love to have a 11 sec 1/4 mile car that also got the equivelent of 125mpg. Too bad the range sucks... but just wait 'til we get good batteries.

Then, I'll put it in my 'bird!