roughskinjrz

how would this work out, am i gonna see problems? the socket wont fit on because of the angle of the rocker stud so it torqued to like 25, then my brother tried a differnt socket/ratchet (not a torque wrench) and was able to tighten it pretty hard, but couldnt get the torque wrench on it

so it is tighended more then 25lbs, but not sure if its under/equal/over 65lbs

ALSO one more question, i had to take one trick flow head off to get 2 intake holes fixed, the motor was run for less then 10 minutes total, i re-used the head gaskets, is this ok?

thanks in advance for answers to both questions

86Z

iTrader: (4)

get a swivel for the torque wrench, and yes you need a new head gasket, lets do it right..

roughskinjrz

a swivel for the bolt, what do you mean, there isnt enough room for a socket because the rocker stud is torque then one of the points is almost touching the head bolt.

and head gaskets for like 100$ for a set, and there is very little run time on them, just turned on 3 times for about 2 minutes each time to listen to it idle, the gasket still looked new

85z28guy

We'll see you back here when you lift a head a 6 grand. You should get a new gasket. Honestly what response's did you expect, go ahead and half a$$ your own motor? BTW I just installed my trick flows last week, there friggin sweet

3.8TransAM

U can reuse a head gasket, I would recommend this ONLY if u have absolutely no other choice and it looks like brand new(yes i know wah wah wah, but i have seen it done lol)

I would hearitly recommend getting another head gasket set and leave it at that.

Take off the rocker stud and tighten it after you completely get done torquing all the head bolts. Whatever u do, make sure you get them all torqued down with a quality torque wrench.

I tend to do most head jobs now and torque everything down to final. I than let the engine set for 12-24 hours and break everything loose about a 1/4 turn and then re -torque it. Also why I use #2 gasket maker instead of thread sealant or silicone, its doesnt set up for a long long time.

later
Jeremy

Stekman

So remove the rocker stud.

Lo-tec

Remove the offending rocker stud, torque the head bolts, and reinstall the stud. Use a new gasket, unless you want to chance doing it a third time.

roughskinjrz

oh your in Ontario also, you like the trick flow's do ya.


well i mean i thought i could re-use the head gasket since there is, less then 6 minutes of run time on it. also, everything is bolted back onto the motor.

out of 17 head studs, one is not exactly 65, im guessing its about 50 or so, im just asking if its a big deal

and how would i lift a head from one bolt 15lbs off?

Stekman

Aluminum can warp, just an FYI.

roughskinjrz

i know, i just have everything ready to fire up, do you think i should un torque everything to change the head gasket, even if it looks new?

firebird45331

yes change the head gasket, hope you cleaned up your head bolts and threads too.

Stekman

What do I think?

Remove the head, replace the gasket, remove the rocker stud, do it right. I don't take chances with half-assed parts/assembly under the hood.

roughskinjrz

yeah the studs were pretty clean.

i will order a new head gasket in the morning.

whats could happen if i just fired up the motor now leavin it as it is?

firebird45331

warp head, leak coolant into the combustion chamber

roughskinjrz

is that the worst case scenario, or what WILL happen guaranteed

what happens when coolant goes into the combustion chamber, i will have to replace the gasket for sure? or something bad with the head?

Lo-tec

A:

or

B:

followed by

roughskinjrz

well that sucks the big one, i was gonna drive my car til the new head gasket comes in, its for my job now

firebird45331

guarantee that it will happen? no only guarantee's is someday each of us will die. Do you really want to be standed alongside the road in traffic cause of a leaking head gasket that leaked water into your oil and damaged bearings?

85z28guy

So everything is bolted on right now? Then why are you worried about the gasket? Just removed the stud, and retorque all the bolts.

'86 350

Stop being such a pansy, just weld the dam heads to the block! Just kidding, you should seriously replace the head gaskets. I know it's pricey, but just bite the bullet and do it right, and like others mentioned rmove the rocker arm stud.

'86 350

Stop being such a pansy, just weld the dam heads to the block! Just kidding, you should seriously replace the head gaskets. I know it's pricey, but just bite the bullet and do it right, and like others mentioned rmove the rocker arm stud.

84z28350

If you want a guarantee go buy a toaster!

If you do fire it up you could warp the head and leak coolant into cumbustion chamber and risk hydrolocking motor and snapping the crank or con rod.

Its alot cheaper to fix the thing right the first time

Supervisor42

My opinion:
Steel shim type cannot be reused. It has to do with the "paint" sealant on them (usually clear).
Composition gaskets can be reassembled as long as the engine has not been run up to operating temp and it is put between the same parts.
Head gaskets are $100??? I must be getting old...
BTW, does everybody follow the torque sequence? How many passes do you make? Does anybody use that "degrees" spec or just good ol' torque wrench?

Stekman

For my AFR's I did a 3 step torquing following torque sequence (torque wrench).

'86 350

Nice ones are that much unfortunately. However, I got my FelPro permatorque headgaskets for a total of $35.


I follow a torque sequence. I run 3 passes, 55, then 60, then 65. I just use a torque wrench on mine.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

lotta naysayers here.

drive the damn car.

15ft/lbs of torque won't make much difference. if you dripped a bit of oil on one bolt, ran a die over one other bolt, and one was dirty, you'd have more then 15ft/lbs difference between them right there.
This isn't a 600HP 7000RPM race winner right?

forget about it.

or, remove the rocker stud, torque it right, and be done with it. Replacing the head gasket altogether is being pretty **** IMHO.

EDIT: ok, was wondering why everyone was being so thorough here... you have a fair bit of mods to the engine there, if indeed those are AL heads, that might be a good idea to replace the head gasket. What's an extra $50 of headgasket and 2hrs compared to having to change all your fluids, and do the headgasket anyway? Or worse, warp the head, but that's highly unlikely. I still think that it's a bit of overkill

84z28350

Its a bit overkill but its alot better than what could happen in worst case scenario.

The thing could run perfectly for 30 years the way it is but who really wants to chance a set of heads or even the bottom end on something that could have been a relatively simple fix?

roughskinjrz

yeah your right, i just thought i might be able to get away with it

because my brother put on some gt40 heads on his mustang, and his old gaskets were over a couple years old, and he had to order some which would take 10-14 days, he didnt want to wait as he wante to race, re-used his old ones and no leaks nothing, and rev's it to 6 grand, but i guess he got lucky on that one.

i took off the rocker stud and torqued that bolt to 65lbs, and put the rocker stud back on, its just i torqued the whole motor back on with the old gasket, so i guess that was stupid, i thought i could get away, the gasket still looked new, less then 6 minutes of run time.

but thanks i dont wanna warp the head

roughskinjrz

ok so i got the new head gasket on, and that same bolt, i cant get the socket to stay on the 12 point bolt, my brother gave it a good turn he thinks 40-50 pounds

its just 1 bolt out of 17, is it fine to turn on the motor like this?

the rocker stud is stripped so it wont turn.

any suggestions? by not turning it another 15 pounds will it cause serious damage?

deepstage69

iTrader: (2)

If your rocker stud is stripped, its not gonna take long for a valve spring to pull it out.

You could if the space between the bolts is big enought, grind down the outside of a socket, so the walls on it will be thinner.

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

just take the damn bolt out.

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

Your brother is an idot. And he should play the lottery. Pull the rocker stud out, tq the head bolt, then repair the rocker stud. It will come out. You're just not trying hard enough.

roughskinjrz

ok ill try

actually my brother put ONE new one on, just he didnt wanna wait for the second one. oh well its been running strong for a year, and pulls 13.4 all day long and still no smoke leaks nothing.

85z28guy

You don't seem to understand what can/will happen if something goes wrong. For $50 in gaskets, you can save yourself creating a new aluminum anchor for your boat outta those heads. Don't listen or do things your brother does, hes a ford guy

roughskinjrz

i am not listening to him, i just need to get one bolt 15lbs tighter, im gonna try and get it off, i dont have a grinder to grind down the socket, so ill try something, ill take the rocker stud off, tighten the bolt, then put the rocker back on and tighten it, all good, ready to fire.

firebirdjosh

iTrader: (1)

I can't believe I read this whole thread. What I don't get is why are you asking "will 15lbs make a difference?" Why not ask "how do I get to the bolt with my torque wrench?"

roughskinjrz

man we went through this, after people flaming me, i guess 15lbs cannot be left alone, thats what i wanted to know

now that its not, i have to get a way to the bolt

85z28guy

What do you expect? You asked if half assing a job was okay. Some would say sure, others would say no. No one was flaming you. Its just like the great fuel sending unit access door debate. Sure it may work, but its not done right. So basically this whole thread can be summed up as DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO, but I think you know what the right thing is.

flaming-ford

iTrader: (7)

15ft/lbs of torque won't make much difference. if you dripped a bit of oil on one bolt, ran a die over one other bolt, and one was dirty, you'd have more then 15ft/lbs difference between them right there.

This is the real truth not by opinion but, more or less fact. That is why everyone was asking about torquing sequence. A lot of bolt manufacturers (i beleive arp especially) has a certain torque procedure last step being just a certain ammount of turn (1/4 turn or half whatever it's suppose to be on that certain part) why is that? Because, of what he said above a dirty bolt or the difference between wet and dry is an easy 15ft lb difference. Torque wrenches can be quite misleading, although i'd much rather have it than just doing it by feel.

But with the new scenario i'll have to agree, definetly find a way to pull the stud since it's stripped. He's right it won't be long before that spring works on the stud causing some serious valvetrain problems.

Anyways g/l on your project and don't despair sounds like it will be a fun ride, no criticism intended to any1 here i understand thats the correct way to do it and blah blah. My opinion is only that you are splitting hairs. so don't throw angry posts back at me please....

roughskinjrz

no i appreciate the input, i jsut wanted to know if ic ould get away with one bolt being 15lbs off but i guess not


so i will be trying to get that off, the rocker stud off, then torque the bolt all the way

roughskinjrz

sweet mary and joseph i finally got the rocker stud off, haha.

i tried so hard to unbolt the rocker stud and it wouldnt budge, i stripped one side of the rocker stud pretty bad, still wouldnt work, i took a screw driver and hammer to it to see if i could cut some of it off...but anyway, it was enough to slip the 12 point socket over the head bolt, i almost cried when it went in, i was so happy.

when i bought the heads the guy gave me a full brand new set of rocker studs so i decided to replace 4 or 5 of them.

anyway looks like they are all torqued to 65 lbs now.

thanks everyone for forcing me to change it instead of letting me slack off of it.

Lo-tec

It's a christmas miracle!!