Pretty sure I'm going with a carb'd stroker. I think thats the biggest bang for the buck and least complicated. What do you all think of this combo?

UPDATED!!!!

Eagle cast steel 3.75 stroke crank.
Stock 5.7 rods
4.030 Hypereutectic Sealed power pistons
Dart Iron Eagle 64/200cc or 215cc heads
Holley 4150HP 750cfm carb

Still looking for cam/lifters/pushrods/rocker, intake. TH350 Converter to match it all.

Any suggestions?

 

intake will depend on cam, cam will depend on cars intentions as will carb.

either way, those heads-while better than stockers, are not going to flow enough to realize the air pumping capacity of the stroker, if your spending the money looking into a better flowing head with a medium sized runner. Soemthing in the 180-210cc range runner size.

if strictly a street car go with a dual plane, performer rpm air gap seems to cover a wide range of rpm capability and good performance, and if room permits try a 1" 4 hole spacer to increase plenum and give a better low end signal.

If stritcly street driven, stick with a vacuum secondary holley. Parts are abound, as are guys that know how to tune them, and they're easy to work on, plus they will flat out work...just dont buy a used unit and expect much, carbs are just one of the things you should always buy new. if you want to have real power, get a 750HP and you'll be smiling for days, but dont expect much for mpg...you'll be trading that for mph either way, a 750cfm carb is minimum for a stroker for all around performance.

pistons will be fine, but wait to pick them out until you know exactly what cars intentions are, how far you want to push the envelope, what cc configurations the heads you choose have to offer, and how much actual duration the cam will have. you can get higher compression pistons with bigger duration cam since cylinder bleed off will be higher, but you have to have all of that in check for a total package otherwise you'll chance hurting performance and possibly burning up a piston if you get it wrong and run pump gas....especially that ethonal crap..anybody say golden colored water with just enough alcohol to make it explosive??

 

I'm gonna port the heads (their cheap and have alot of meat to hog out) and prolly the intake depending on what I get. I to was thinking dual plane with a 750cfm holley. I really don't give a hoot about mileage. I just want a mean little weekend hot rod able to laydown some good track times. I need to read up on some valvetrain stuff.

 

Start with Sportsman II's and port them.

 

Unless you already have the heads, look into something different like what 5kid mentioned. The torqer heads are just a bit better than stock heads-enough to say they are, even with porting on your own dime, your wasting your time, energy and money when there are heads in the same price range that will out flow and be more effiecient out of the box than those torquers will be after your done with them.

If you already bought them, your stuck and you'll have to do what you have to do, but those S/R torquers wont be enough to be a hot lil street ride and lay down impressive numbers. You'd be better off getting the old crusty double hump castings, vortec castings, or even working over a set of 416's-alot better return on investment for output.

Cam wise, if your looking for power and daily driving not in the forcast, stick with a solid design wheather flat tappet or roller. hard to beat a solid flat tappet when doing bang for the buck, but I prefer the roller design since you dont need any break in per say. If you make it past break in with a solid flat tappet, use good valvetrain parts, and set lash correctly it will be maintenance free for quite some time-not like the solids you've heard stories about with the older crowd's...components have come along ways since 1960's LOL!!

 

I'm debateing between the Sportsman II and Dart Iron Eagles.

Some other guys think I should go with forged pistons. Should I just buy that crank and some forged pistons and use my stock rods?

 

I never ran juice to my stuff, but had over 1800 passes and 5-6K street miles before end of crank snapped off-due to stock balancer-so take that FWIW in your descion making, just check my sig for ideas. Stock parts if assembled correctly will hold upto alot of power since they will give a little as opposed to forged just snapping/breaking and taking the rest of the motor with it.

My next motor will be all forged, but hp will be up and juice will be added so I need strength, but dont think for a minute you have to have a $2500 rotating asseembly to make good reliable hp-save that money and invest it into the head/cam/valvtrain where it REALLY matters.

 

For the heads go with the one with the thicker deck in case you want to mill or angle mill later.

If you're going to stay naturally aspirated then you don't need the forged pistons. It also depends on how tight you are going to have piston to bore clearance. Forged expands more with heat.
The cast pistons are actually more brittle than forged, but lighter in weight so easier to balance.

In a lot of cases cast pistons don't move heat through them as fast so they are more efficient.
If you're planning on putting a lot of heat to the piston, as in a power adder, then go with forged.

 

You might want to consider RHS as well. If you believe their hype, the finish machining is better.

 

Thanks, you guys are really helping.

IHI, did you lighten and balance your rods? ARP bolts?

 

The rods are just factory X rods that had ARP bolts and assembly was balanced, but they were not stress relieved or lightened in any way.

 

Ok heres what I've came up with so far. This is just using Summit to narrow down what I want. I'll search the classifieds, ebay, and swap meets before I buy anything. Maybe I'll come across something better than what I've planned.

Eagle Cast Steel Crank 3.75 stroke
Sealed Power 4.030, Hypereutectic aluminum, Flat pistons
Dart Iron Eagle Platinum Heads, 200cc Intake Runner, 64cc combustion chamber, 2.02/1.6 valves
Holley Street Dominator Dual-plane Intake
Holley 4160 (maybe 4150 HP) series 750cfm carb
Clevite bearings
ARP fasteners

Other things I need to pick out....
Rockers
Push rods
Cam
Balancer, flexplate, and flywheel
Headers
Oil pump and pan
Timing chain
Water pump and pully setup

Am I missing anything else important?

 

I copied and pasted your reply and added my remarks to each one, just opinons though

Eagle Cast Steel Crank 3.75 stroke-fine
Sealed Power 4.030, Hypereutectic aluminum, Flat pistons-fine, but be sure to know how far in the hole the pistons will sit along with cam specs so you can either have block decked to keep compression where it needs to be or have heads milled...
Dart Iron Eagle Platinum Heads, 200cc Intake Runner, 64cc combustion chamber, 2.02/1.6 valves-alot better choice!!
Holley Street Dominator Dual-plane Intake-stick with an edelbrock rpm air gap, I've seen more mph when brands like wieand, and holley intakes were replaced with edelbrock stuff. Do yourself a huge favor and do a little port work to the runner on the intake-gasket match them, pretty good gain by doing that
Holley 4160 (maybe 4150 HP) series 750cfm carb-if your going this far, get a 4150 and call it a day, life will be alot easier since the local conveinant store carries parts for these carbs
Clevite bearings-fine
ARP fasteners-fine

Other things I need to pick out....
Rockers-I personally dont like aluminum rockers becasue they fatigue over time, but they will last a few years no problem, check into Harland Sharp if going aluminum since they have a lifetime warranty-you send it in, they give you new stuff if they break
Push rods-get hardened-cost more, but good insurance, comp's are very good and affordable
Cam-will depend on overall goal of car, but would suggest using Bullet Cams for your grinder
Balancer and flywheel-get any of the SFI approved, ATI damper is top notch if you can swing it, stay away from Rattler and others like that.
Headers-recommend LT's naturally, very happy with my Hooker super comps.
Oil pump and pan-Melling M55 out of box, I've ran my summit 7qt kick out with steel windage tray for 4 years on 2 motors and never had oil problems, you can buy the pan/pump kit very reasonable...but it is a beeotch setting/pulling motor with the kick out and changing oil filter with kick out and LT headers is not bad, but not as easy as it could be with a stright pan
Timing chain-get a basic double roller Cloyes
Water pump and pully setup-are you going mechanical or electric

Lifters: will depend on cam type, I've had great luck with Lunati hyd, solid, and solid roller lifters

Am I missing anything else important?

 

They don't make an RPM Air-Gap for 1987 and later cast iron heads.

Would 215cc heads be too much? Or just stick with the 200cc. I found a store on ebay that sells new dart heads alot cheaper than Summit or SDPC.

These are the pistions I came up with.

 

I would personally opt to stick with the 200cc over the 215cc based on published flow sheets. The 215's actually provided less under the curve than the 200's and did'nt outflow until higher lifts .500-.600 which does you no good since the cam spends so little time at full lift...you want max lift coming in as soon as .200 and keep going up from there. Plus the smaller port will help velocity as well which is key to making good tq numbers from the get go...."under the curve" is key to making usable power and keeping it steady, typically when going with larger runners and a mild cam the motor will get very peaky...sure it will show higher peak numbers, but vol eff. will not be as good and powerband/curve will suffer as a result.

Going with conventional heads and keeping with what your trying to accomplish, gasket match a vic jr intake. I've run this on my old 355 and did not lose any bottom end but I gained a larger operating window in the higher rpm band...kind of a best of both worlds, it's a very "easy to please" intake that can be accentuated with carb spacers. I used to use a 1" 4 hole on my 355 and for this 388 I used a 2" open to increase plenum and help speed up air flow and atomization...was going to switch it out to a Dart or a super vic, but gains would've been soo minimal I would never have seen them on a time slip so I stuck with what I had and modified it to get essentially what I was after with a cast intake with a taller plenum.

That piston is a good choice for helping keep compression in check for pump gas but not going over board since slug will probably be in the hole a bit anyways...you'll have to wait and hear from machine shop to see if they had to mill some off, but typically it never needs to go zero deck unless you specify or block is very tweaked.

Curious to see cam ideas you have floating around in your head as far as which type hyd, solid, flat tappet or roller...I know what I'd do/did and what I'll do again definately worth the extra bucks going solid roller for additional power and lack of mess getting it all set/adjusted...plus no break in and you can peice together a realiable set-up very resonably....my engine was a $3500 unit from intake to pan...dont get much cheaper than that and it lasted a looong time, if i did not race it the thing every weekend it probably would've gone alotta years before needing freshened up.

 

If I were on a budget this is what I would do….. Vortec heads 519.95……Proform 1.5 ratio self align roller rockers for around $160……RPM air gap intake 219.95……a com XE262H cam it has 262*/270* advertised duration 218*/224* @0.050 .462”/.469” lift and a 110* LSA with a 1,300-5,600 RPM range around $99.88……some cheep stock lifters for around $50……a 383 stroker crank shaft from eagle there in summit for around $189.95……A pair of stock 400 rods 5.565” about $120 with ARP bolts and re use your stock 350 pistons……. 400 damper 69.99……400 flex plate $56.50 …….and a 625 CFM speed demon carburetor 339.95 your going to have other un seen expenses like gaskets, bearings, new rings, balancing the rotating assembly but so far the total is only 1,606.22 any thing not listed I would use stock and am sure you could obtain for free like a HEI and water pump oil pump ECT…….I bet this combo could be built for around $2,000 and make around 375 HP use a 2,000 rpm stall and 3.73 gears and it should scoot pretty good and bet if you had good traction you could hit a high to mid 12 quarter mile. But hay I like do things a little old school I am sure a couple people will disagree with this combo but it is a cheep route. For sure I would look in to the Vortecs they flow around 234 CFM on the intake at .500” of lift the cheep ones from summit only except .474” of lift but for a extra $130 you can get the ones with the screw in studs and they except .520” of lift they even out flow the Bowtie heads there the best bang for the buck and I would choose them over the world 180s or the 200s.

 

As far as a carb no mater what you do there is a little math to give you a little guidance CID (cubic inches) X RPM / 3456 now this dose not take in to account your VE and if you want to get technical you could divide the end result by guessing your VE. Example: 383 with a 6,500 RPM shift point is 720 CFM so I would use a 700 CFM double pumper.It’s not cut in stone but it will help guide you a little.

 

Thanks but I'm not much on the Vortecs. Maybe if I was keeping the TPI and not stroking it, but the extra cubes will like carbed alot better, and the Darts flow 262cfm. Plus, I'll have a little broader range of intakes to choose from.

Still not totally sure on which intake. And kinda clueless on the cam.

 

What RPM range are you looking at what gears and stall speed you wanting to use? Are you going to drive it a lot?

 

I had a comp cam magnum 305 in a 350 that I had in a 68 Chevy long bed I bet this would work good with your heads it has 254 duration at 0.050 305 advertised duration 525 lift and a 110 LSA and it sounded sick I ran a 3,000 RPM stall but if I did it again I would recommend a 3,500 or 4,000 and a higher compression I had stock compression and modified stock heads but it was still a sick cam.

 

Well I have a 9-bolt with 3.45s and will be rebuilding a TH350 and a new converter. This is going to be my weekend warrior. Ocasionally will take it to the track.

 

If you're going to have a healthy converter and will be running a dual-plane intake then go with the Dart 215's.

I think that's a good piston you picked. Sometimes out of the box they will have some sharp machined edges on them. I think it's a good idea to sand them smooth in those areas. I also think polishing the tops is good, but cast doesn't polish up as nice as forged, so they might not come out as shiney as you might expect.

I think the RPM intake is a good one. The Dart cool-can intake is similar to the Air-gap design which are both intakes that I'd go for as well, but that's JMO.

 

I just realized they have a couple choices in assembed heads. 5 angle valve seats or 4-angle intake/2-angle exhaust seats. 1.550 or 1.437 outside valve springs.

 

If you're looking for power on a limited budget, you need to rethink this one. The power is in the cylinder heads.

Dump the $$$'s into the best head you can afford (even if you'll be porting it) Before you spend a dime on a stroker.

Stock GM 350 cranks and rods (with good rod bolts) are very reliable to 6500rpm. So are cheapy hyper 350 pistons like HP345NP

A 350-360ci motor with a good cylinder head and valvetrain will flat out smoke a 383 with a ho hum "stock replacement"
cylinder head (ported or not).

What is your budget? How much power are you after? What other good parts do you already own.
Do you have a 350ci motor to work with now?

I'd build a 350 based motor with much, much better heads.
More $$$go for the doe.$$$$

If I was going to buy a cast head to start porting I would buy Sportsman II's or GM Bowties or Vortecs, Not S/R Torquers.
Do you want to end up with a fast ride, within your budget, or a ho hum yada yada yada I gotta 383 in 'er.

Wouldn;t ya rather be smok'en off 383's with a spank'in 355-358ci motor?

 

You didn't read the thread did you? I'm going with dart iron eagles now. Eagle stroker crank, stock rods, and new pistons. I do have a short block right now. I'll update the first post so people know.

 

What's the price difference?
I've never inspected out-of-the-box Dart iron eagle heads, only the aluminum, so I don't know how much "clean up" they might need. The aluminum is really great shape out of the box, but of course any heads can use some clean up. If you're going to be doing clean up around the seats anyway, then go with the cheaper. I'd probably do that myself.

Personally I prefer doing the seats myself rather than the standard Serdi job they put on those heads. The Serdi cuts perfectly symetrical which leaves perfect size angles. The thing is that it's not always what you want to get the best flow from the head. If you're going to bias the seats then you have to do them by hand.

It all depends on what you want. Many people just bolt on right from the box and never look back. Other people want the max possible.

Since never messing with iron eagles this is just speculation, but if I had to quantify an advantage to hand finishing or radiusing the seats and valves I'd say it could be worth around 20 cfm on the intake at mid lifts, and maybe 15 cfm on the exhaust at high lift. Stegemier is not too far from you. Give him a call or go by and see what he says. He has a superflow600 and can probably give you a good idea, but I have to tell you he does all his work on a Serdi. He has flowed a lot of hand-finished heads though.

 

I don't think there is any price difference, if there its not a whole lot. I'll deffinetely check into Stegemier for going over my heads. I gotta get the shortblock done first.