Hey, I have a set of 416 heads that I plan to Port and polish and open up the intake valve, ect.. At the moment I'm building up the engine (and the rest of the car) so I REALLY can't afford to go buy new locks and retainers(Money is already way too tight).

Heres the deal: I have some Lunati valve springs along with a Lunati cam (.489,.504), and I was woundering if the stock retainers/locks would work fine? I've never head of a lock or a retiner breaking..

Thanks.

 

Not really....

They only fit stock springs. They don't fit springs that will work with a cam like that.

If you think you don't have enough money for new retainers, then you REALLY don't have enough money to deal with the type of damage that broken valve springs will cause. This type of damage looks like this.

I suggest that this is NOT a good place to try to save a couple of coins.

 

Well, if I have to get some, then I have to. I was just seeing if I could use the 100-150 bucks elsewhere...

Just curious, how would it break? Cause the rocker pushes on the valve, which pushes on the locks, which pulls on the retainer which pushes the valve spring.. Which would mean either the lock would break(hard to see) or the retainer would fold, no?

 

Typically the retainer wouldn't break; but the spring might.

Retainers have various little steps and features to fit the springs they're designed to be used with; and vice-versa. Which usually aren't at all the same as stock. (If they were the same as stock, there wouldn't be much point in making them in the first place, now would there?...) If the spring and retainer aren't "compatible", all sorts of bizarre stresses can be put on the spring, which can easily cause it to break.

The cam you posted is completely outside of the range of stock springs. You'll HAVE TO use better ones. Use the retainers that go with whatever springs Lunati calls for, for the cam; which I'm assuming are what you already have.

Most likely, the new springs won't even be the same OD as stock, which means you'll need machine work to the heads to fit them, and the stock retainers wouldn't fit them anyway.

Retainers aren't $100-150. But even if they were, a broken piston from a valve falling down into the cylinder like in that other post would be $ ...... how much? Would that be less than a set of the right retainers and keepers?

 

Cool, thanks.

I already bought the springs, and kept the stock OD as I don't want to pour THAT much money into these 416s. It makes sense what your saying, its really not that big of a deal, its just that where I live in canada by the time shipping and duty are put on it will cost me around 100-150 (its 73 USD for the locks and retainers).

All in good fun.

Thanks

 

Rather than doing the shipping thing, you might want to check with your local speed shop, or the Canadian mail-order suppliers. Might be less on the bottom line.

Good luck!!!

 

If the budget is that tight, you might want to spend a little less for some "inferior" titanium retainers and locks. Check this option, since you're using stock OD springs, unless $30 is too much:

http://www.paceparts.com/index.asp?P...D&ProdID=22758

http://www.paceparts.com/index.asp?P...D&ProdID=22770

You'll need to verify that the ID of your new springs will fit, but these are designed for 1.28" ("stock" diameter) springs, 10° keepers and all. They are used in stock engines to 0.525" lifts on a short duration (heavy ramp) and a 6,300 RPM redline.

 

hey "none", where are you? I noticed you're building the same motor there (see sidebar info)

I had my machinist put together my heads, came as a package deal, so I didn't stop him. He used a standard 100/300lb aftermarket spring, it's a pretty common spring size/rate. I imagine you've got similar springs? Whatever your springs are, you can probably get the retainers from the same brand lineup, for a decent price. My machinist didn't even charge me for retainers or locks, after $2000 in machine work, maybe he was feeling generous...

 

Vader, that doesn't look too bad, to be honest, 73 bucks (USD) isn't out of the question, it just 73 bucks that I may have been able to spend elsewhere (but i guess I can't). Also, since thoughs are GM parts, would my local GM dealer carry them? Thanks

Sonix, actually, this morning I was surfing around and I realized the samething! Right down to the intake (and exhaust!). Weird. I live in Moncton (N.B). As for the springs, I bought the ones Lunati suggested.. 108/339. Which is pretty close to what you have. I was reading that your having motor troubles, any more luck?

 

hey, i've got a cousin out there in moncton, Rob. He's got an '83 1/2 Mustang, 400HP 302.

Yea, I finally got the beast to stay running last night. I've got my idle screw turned in until it bottomed out, manifold vacuum advance, and I think 30* timing at idle (including vacuum). I also drilled out my idle mixture screws. It still stalls when I slow down! I'm going to get the exhaust put on it (y-pipe needs modification to fit headers), then once I can hear myself think, i'll be able to fine tune it nicer. I think i'll drill holes in the throttle blades, and try that to see if I can stay running. Q-jet needs a bit of work for 227/234 with 1.6 rockers I guess...

what's your bottom end of the motor like? hows your porting going? (done?)

 

Rob.. hmmm the names actaully sounds familiar, but that doesn't mean much. There are a couple of nice Mustangs around here. (Alot more nice Mustangs than there are nice Fbodys anyway)

I've actually got a Holley for mine, I gave up on Q-jets back when the engine was running. Their cool, I just have a thing for Holleys.

As for bottom end of the engine, its pretty much stock.. stock crank and rods, APR bolts for both, with hypereutectic (.030) pistons. Should be running right at 10:1. I havn't started on the porting yet, in fact, I still havn't found a good kit. I can't seem to locate the Standard Abrasives kit around here so I ordered a Mr. Gasket kit. I ended returning it... All it was is a bunch of cartridge rolls.

 

the standard abrasives kit doesn't have carbide cutters either.
I used carbidebur.com. Good prices to IMHO. Don't use a fine tipped cutter, basically for anything, you want a radiused nose.
I used mcmastercarr.com for cartridge rolls and cross buffs. I actually liked the 120grit drums more then the 80grit tapered buffs... I used mrgasket 1075 for rocker studs.