Tech / General Engine Is your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: CARiD

Dynamic Compression questions

Old May 22, 2006 | 09:50 PM
  #1  
acidpad's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Car: 1991 RS
Engine: 406 in progress
Transmission: th350
Dynamic Compression questions

ok, first my cam stats:
Cam Style: Mechanical flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,800-7,200 RPM
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 252
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 260
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 252 int./260 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 290
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 298
Advertised Duration: 290 int./298 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.540 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.558 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.540 int./0.558 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 110
Intake Valve Lash: 0.016 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.016 in.

engine: 406
bore: 4.155, stroke 3.75, cyl head volume 64cc, rod length 5.7, block not zero decked (piston .025 in the hole).

using

* RD = 1/2ST * (sine ICA)
* RR = 1/2ST * (cosine ICA)
* PR1 = sq root of ((RL*RL) - (RD*RD))
* PR2 = PR1 - RR
* DST = ST - ((PR2 + 1/2ST) - RL)

from Dynamic CR yields a dynamic stroke of 2.255 (i think).

Questions is: in this equation, where they want ICA, is that Advertised Intake Duration: 290, or is it another number.


If it is the 290, that yields me a dynamic compression of 7.08:1 with a static of 11:1 with the 4cc flat tops, do I need to run more compression ? Can I run more than 11:1 on pump gas with iron heads ? Whats the deal here.


Thanks for the help
Reply
Old May 22, 2006 | 10:16 PM
  #2  
acidpad's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Car: 1991 RS
Engine: 406 in progress
Transmission: th350
I think I answered my own question by looking at the comp cam card
Valve Timing At 0.015
Open Close
Intake 39 71
Exhaust 83 35

i replaced the 290 with 71, and got 8.5:1 with an 11:1 static CR, I think this is right this time, and it looks like my combo has good dynamic CR and will be fine on the iron heads on pump gas even at 11:1!

Last edited by acidpad; May 22, 2006 at 10:35 PM.
Reply
Old May 22, 2006 | 11:10 PM
  #3  
Sonix's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,763
Likes: 4
From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
yep, you got it right. That's a pretty huge cam, so that explains why you can get away with high SCR, due to your ok DCR.

use a thin head gasket for better quench if you can. Polish those combustion chambers too.
Reply
Old May 22, 2006 | 11:49 PM
  #4  
acidpad's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Car: 1991 RS
Engine: 406 in progress
Transmission: th350
I've been looking and I cant find a .015" head gasket, even though thats what I need for proper quench .... I really dont want to bring the block BACK to the machine shop to have it zero decked. Any idea where to find a .015 head gasket ?
Reply
Old May 23, 2006 | 12:08 AM
  #5  
Sonix's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,763
Likes: 4
From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
you can't be looking too hard.

On summit I searched, you can get a head gasket from .015 to .051", not quite in .001" increments, but close.
Gm steel shim gaskets (factory stuff) is .015". Felpro composite aftermarket stuff is probably .039-.041". Everything inbetween is a nice mix of composite, steel shim, copper etc. search on summit, get a p/n and brand, then drop by your local parts store.
Reply
Old May 23, 2006 | 12:20 AM
  #6  
acidpad's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Car: 1991 RS
Engine: 406 in progress
Transmission: th350
i noticed the .015 in a 4.100 bore w/ no steam holes, but with the 400 i need a 4.155 bore and steem holes. Should i just get the 4.100 bore one and hog it out and drill the holes ?
Reply
Old May 23, 2006 | 11:11 AM
  #7  
shaggy56's Avatar
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,119
Likes: 1
From: Armpit state
Car: 71 Nova
Engine: Superramed 383, Topline heads
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 8.2 posi 3.08
Im quoting this from another site.

Running an engine at the upper limit of the DCR range requires that the engine be well built, with the correct quench distance, and kept cool (170º). Hot intake air and hot coolant are an inducement to detonation. If you anticipate hot conditions, pulling some timing out might be needed. A good cooling system is wise. Staying below 8.25 DCR is probably best for trouble free motoring
Something you should think about if you are attempting to run pump gas.
Reply
Old May 23, 2006 | 11:16 AM
  #8  
Sonix's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,763
Likes: 4
From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
it's pretty tough to "drill" .015" thick stuff, and opening up the bore size on that would be tough.
Most gaskets have a 4.166" bore, hmm, you should be able to find one like that. Call up a gm parts guy and ask for a head gasket for a 400SBC, tell him you want a steel shim style, that should get you the right one.


and yea, low temp t-stat, CAI, polish chambers and piston tops if possible. Avoid lugging it with large load, high timing, high temp, low RPM. (I don't think you'll be doing that with that car anyway, but that's the killer).
Reply
Old May 23, 2006 | 12:34 PM
  #9  
1989GTATransAm's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,859
Likes: 14
From: Cypress, California
Car: 1989 GTA
Engine: 369 TPI
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.70 Nine Bolt
Here is my two cents. Personally I think that DCR is to high for iron heads. It would be OK if you were running aluminum heads. Next I would get the blocked decked. You need to make sure it is square with the crank. Also it will help with your quench and selecting a proper head gasket. I have a good DCR calculator but I don't know what thickness of head gasket you used.

One more thing 400's usually run a little hotter than say a 350 SBC.
Reply
Old May 23, 2006 | 02:11 PM
  #10  
acidpad's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Car: 1991 RS
Engine: 406 in progress
Transmission: th350
so should closer to 7.9:1 be better for DCR ? thats arounds where im getting with 15cc dish pistons, and a .021" gasket (pistons .025 in the hole). Let me know if that sounds like a better setup.
Reply
Old May 23, 2006 | 08:13 PM
  #11  
1989GTATransAm's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,859
Likes: 14
From: Cypress, California
Car: 1989 GTA
Engine: 369 TPI
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.70 Nine Bolt
My research has been regarding aluminum heads. I have seen 8.00DCR with iron heads but you have a 400 which may be different. Just to a lot of internet searching. Excellant posts out there.
Reply
Old May 23, 2006 | 10:18 PM
  #12  
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,111
Likes: 53
From: Ontario, Canada
Car: 1988 Firebird S/E
Engine: 406Ci Vortec SBC
Transmission: TH-350/3500stall
Axle/Gears: 7.5" Auburn 4.10 Posi-Traction
You're headed for a disaster in the real world.

You're trying to build a motor based soley on DCR theory (using only the intake closing point) without taking in all the other factors that effect actual peak cylinder pressure in the *running motor*.

Build a true 10:1 400 motor with a 0 deck clearance. (.040" quench clearance) Open up you heads to 68cc. (Do a little deshrouding.)
using a -15cc piston and felpro 400 gasket.

Use this camshaft comp cams #12-502-5 installed 4 deg advanced on a 102intake c/L. You'll have more torque and power, without exessive cr.

You can look up the cam and calculate the DCR yourself. Your static compression ratio will be 10.07:1.
Reply
Old May 23, 2006 | 10:39 PM
  #13  
acidpad's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Car: 1991 RS
Engine: 406 in progress
Transmission: th350
i dont actually think that i'm in too bad of a position right now. Im looking at the following.

1) the cam i listed stays
2) heads staying at 64cc
3) 15 cc dish pistons
4) either run a .021 head gasket, or deck it to .005 and run a .041 gasket (likely)

either way it will give the following
STATIC COMPRESSION RATIO 10.331
DYNAMIC EFFECTIVE COMPRESSION RATIO 07.888 w/ 5.7 rods
QUENCH .046
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
beastin91rs
Tech / General Engine
18
Oct 9, 2015 07:38 AM
gixxer92
Engine/Drivetrain/Suspension Parts for Sale
5
Sep 1, 2015 04:32 PM
NinjaNife
Tech / General Engine
27
Aug 23, 2015 11:49 AM
redmaroz
LTX and LSX
7
Aug 16, 2015 11:40 PM
BBSDesigns
Power Adders
10
Aug 11, 2015 07:39 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:11 PM.