So I recently got rid of a 2000 dodge neon for a 91 v6 firebird, i was told it ran good etc etc. anyways drove it, it had some power but it wouldnt even burn out, and thats with a posi in the back,lame. plus it had a miss, get it home and check the spark plugs and their loose and the ends are blown off...OMG plus oil is black black and tranny fluid smells burnt. Worst part is that it was a guy i traded with, he didnt take good care of cars i take it. Bastard,lol.

 

I don't see what your problem is. Afterall, it's only a V6 . . .

 

Hopefully it doesn't need alot to get it tuned and going.

If it's been neglected for awhile, it may end up costing you more than you bargained for.

Did you not thoroughly inspect the car before you made it yours??

 

Lol.

But why didn't you check these things out when you bought the car? You didn't even go ahead and check the fluids before the trade? Bad move on your part friend.

Just do a simple tune up and see how she runs then.

 

Well I plan on doing all the tune up this week. And just cause its a v6 doesnt mean anything, my dad is an ex racer and is going to supe the hell outa it.

 

there's not much souping you can do to the 3.1L motor, fyi.

 

i have heard this story so many times.... my dad is this my uncle is that my grandma is rich...
one thing will never change... if you want respect.. do the work yourself.
Muscle car mantra "You cant call it yours unless you did the work"

you will come to the conclusion sooner or later that the V6 has to go... why prevent the inevitable?

i know you are just getting into the whole performance aspect of this... you have alot of questions and you have alot of imagination... the best thing to do is just spend as many hours you can just reading.... read into everything you can about the things you want on here... use search its awesome... i learn something new every single day... every day.

one day you will be in my shoes saying the same thing.

 

Well Im not saying hes gonna do it alone, he wouldnt, but we are going to do work on the heads, bore and stroke it, among other thigns. And there is alot You can do to a v6 just wait and see. Thanks

 

no offense, but I have a feeling we will be waiting a long long time......

 

My tongue-in-cheek comment was intended to reflect the disrepect V6's receive.

And, you can see how wrong I am about that. . .

 

Since it was not mentioned and if not already accomplished. Change the oil and transmission fluid and filters. Do a tune up then see what oil pressure is and if it uses oil.

When the engine is out of the car pending boreXstroke ponder some cubes, even if you get some "serious" power from the 3.1 it will never sound like Detroit...nothing is as sweet to the ears and mind as a V-8 making serious power at high rpms.

 

Well Ill have alot of it done before summers over so...laterz

 

The only thing you can really to to get above 250hp in a V6 is to get cheater gas or turbo. With a nice turbo setup you can see nice numbers, I won't doubt that. Mid-Low 14's easily if done right, and you might possibly see 13's. Depends on how far you go with it. However, I don't know if that motor is strong enough to handle that kind of power...you'll have to research it. However once you start talking about N/A...you are at a loss.

Not trying to knock your car here, but just letting you know the reality of it. Even guys with 305 V8's are told that they should move up to 350ci if they want a REAL foundation to build off of. Sure, 305's can be built, but the fact of the matter is that it's easiest to get high numbers out of a 350.

 

you want a V6 that is worth respect then get cyclone motor... those are no joke... and no one.... will knock that... those cars bone stock produce very impressive numbers.

 

Like at 6500 rpm? Here's your moment of Zen (pause it when it starts to give it time to load): http://home.mindspring.com/~andywarr...s/100_0584.mpg

 

there is no replacement for displacement...........tao

 

you can't stroke a 3.1...it's already stroked! the 2.8 share the same bore size but the 3.1 got a longer stroke crank. the 3.4 is the next step up. these can be had from 93,94, and half of 95's camaro/firebird. ****** one of those shortblocks and rebuild THAT if you HAVE to keep the v6. don't even waist your time on the 3.1

and don't waist your time with a 305 either.

 

first thing I want to address is if you have a posi in the rear that is the point.

to prevent the tires from spinning.

if your looking for performance why are you wanting to spin the tires anyway? it doesn't mean your fast or anythying I can spin the tires in my 68hp honda wow I'm fast right?


you can supe the hell out of your 3.1 all you want but unless you do some serious mods. like put a v8 in there or a turbo your not going to go very fast.

 

Well its supposed to spin the back right tire, and it wont, but i have to tune it first and see how its doin. And yes eventually Im going to drop a 350 in it but i cant right now, parents dont trust me with a v8 but theyll let me supe the v6 up, ya thats odd. I just want to get it to around 250 so i can beat the rice rockets at my school without a doubt and plus I know that a 3.1 is a stroked 2.8 and a 3.4 is a stroked and bored 2.8, so ya ill figure it out
as of now idk looking at...

Sub-Frame Connectors
Lower Control Arms
Panhard Rod
Aluminum Drive Shaft
Strut Tower Brace
Under drive Pulley
Exhaust System
Camshaft
MSD Distributor Cap and Rotor
MSD 48,000 Volt coil pack
AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs
Thundervolt 8.2mm
5Qts Oil-mobil 1 high mileage
Oil Filter
Change Tranny Fluid
Fuel filter
Air intake
Bore motor
headwork
Headers
cant remember all so...and whatever else custom that my uncle or dad know about.

 

a 3.4 is not a bored and stroked 2.8. it's a whole new casting. that's like saying a 350 is a bored and stroked 307...it doesn't work that way.

do a full tune up on it first before anything else. and don't waiste your money on stupid gimics like rapid fire plugs and stuff. they don't work in these cars. get your standard spark plug.

but your on the right track. definitely do sfc's before any other modification. and lca relocation brackets which will allow you to have adjustability over the lower control arms.

 

Also Bigger throttle body and throttle body spacer? And this is what I was told by a moderator about the 2.8 3.1 and 3.4s so....

 

i'd do all those chassis mods, etc, before ripping into the bottom end of the motor. The chassis mods will last a while, but rebuilding the bottom end of the V6 is kinda a waste. Spend your hard earned cash on the things you can keep when (not if ) you go to a 350 later. Better than tossing money into a motor you KNOW that one day you'll toss.... Just bandaid the sucker up and beat it until your parents let you get the 350.

besides, subframes, and other suspension goodies help your car with stability, and keep you safe. Your parents should help ya pay for that

 

I wish,lol. Im gonna supe it up a little at least.

 

well, you can put a good high flowing 3" exhaust on it, that will transfer right on over to the larger engine...and put some gears in it for sure!

 

yeah but a 3" exhaust would kill that puny V6

 

Forged pistons and a 300 shot.......

 

That would be soupin in up allright... a big chunky soup bowl of rods and valves..

 

actually, redraif posted dyno proven gains from a 3" on her 3.4 car...

 

i owned a auto v6 bird and believe me i spent the money on bolt ons save your money even after almost every bolt on the car still got its *** whipped by most imports. Unless you really want a fast v6 either turbo/ nitrous, or rebuild a 3.4 with a nice cam and heads (still wont be faster then a stock l98). I was in your shoes too my parents wouldnt let me get a v8 so i had to stick with the v6 modded it wasted alot of money for no gains. keep the v6 stock save your cash and buy a car that already has a v8 in it. I say that because it will save you alot of money to get a v8 car instead of swapping a v8 in a v6 car.

 

Well Im not going to do nos,haha, and well im gonna do a little, and it wont cost much when I have connections. Im thinkin Exhaust right now and head work....in the next 3 months so ya

 

for exhaust id suggest a dynomax catback best sounding on a v6 and flows nicely, then pacesetter makes the only headers for the v6 along with a dynomax high flow cat for the exhaust. Head work is gonna be useless with that stock intake setup and stock cam same for a throttle body. And if somebody doesnt kno much about 60 degree v6 heads they'll mess them up porting them because of the fins they have in the ports. Also if your gonna wanna "supe" this car up you shoulda kept the 4 banger neon it had more potential n/a. Even if the firebird looks like god compared to one. BTW NOS is a brand of nitrous by holley it isnt another term for nitrous just a brand thats like saying instead of a catback you have dynomax it just sounds stupid

 

Is anyone really taking this kid seriously?

To me he just listed everything that was brought up on a search...you have hookups...ya sure you do. Good luck with the 6.

You bought a ragged out third gen that hasnt been taken care of at all and yet you wanna "soup" it up. Learn how to BUY a car and then take the next step. Hope you didnt pay much...

 

I am sure there were gains... maybe 5 hp... 3" is too big for that motor and would create a vaccuum that would ruin the backpressure... You would get more HP from the V6 with 2.5" exhaust than a 3" due to the lack of power.... bigger is not always better. I am not paying this thread anymore attention... its a waste of brain cells...

 

i agree with you a 2.5" is better for a 3.1 but the reason redraif gain on hers is because she has a built 3.4 with a huge cam. Btw i love your camaro nova very nice

 

Actually I dont search that much at all unless I wanna find parts and I have already picked several parts out before I even posted anything on this site so and yes I have hookups, my uncle is a mechanic and my dad is one too so w/e and me and my dad built my sisters firebird(88 with a 350) I just havent ever touched a v6 so thought you all should know so and have a nice 4th of july.

 

This coming from a guy that did a 12.5 in an N/A daily driver 305?

Then again, you did the opposite of what this guys trying to do...most of your stuff was weight reduction and suspension. Proof that things like that make just as much of a difference as making a motor powerful.

 

you hit the nail on the head

 

I'm sorry to say but this post is very incorrect. it has been covered manymanymanymanymanymany times by urbanhunter44 and myself as well as others on this board.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exha...-you-ever.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exha...als-daily.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exha...w-you-may.html

in a nutshell what those threads talk about is how at the exhaust port itself you want the lowest pressure you can get when that valve opens. it causes a pressure differential which will help pull that exhaust gas out of the cylinder which in turn helps draw fresh air/fuel mixture into the cylinder

why would you want pressure in the exhaust? all that is going to do is prevent it from pulling the exhuast out and in turn hurt overall power. though yes bigger is not always better but your way of explaining it was a waste of brain cells.

 

Im afraid you are incorrect, the theory of backpressure may be iffy, but it will create a vaccuum thus ruin his performance. 3" exhaust will not flow better on a stock V6 better than a 2.5" i do not care who posted a thread on it, it will not change fact no matter how much deep the bs is we all step in.

this is my last post on this stupid thread, you have something to say to me we can chat on pms

 

so let me understand what you are saying then. you don't want a vacuum on the exhuast to help suck the exhaust out correct? instead you would rather have it to where not all the exhaust gets pulled out of the cylinder but instead some of it stays behind?


or let me rephrase it this way. you would rather not have scavenging on the exhaust at all. correct?

that is the first I ever heard anyone say scavenging is bad. I can agree a 3" on a v6 could be bad but never heard anyone say scavenging is bad before.


if anything though the 3" exhaust will have less scavenging then a 2 1/2 but it isn't because the 3" has more vacuum on the exhuast

 

one other thing nelapse if you are going to man up and tell someone they are wrong give a little explanation as to why it's so.

you whole creating vacuum thing doesn't really explain things too well if anything for those who know how exhaust work it goes against everything.

it's like saying no you don't want to have low pressure on the intake stream that would kill performance.


so you going to explain this sice you have the ability to say someone is wrong or run away?

 

Since I just simply get around the idiotic thread we have here, this is your explaination... enjoy
Since many people get confused about backpressure, scavenging, exhaust sizing, etc., I wrote this up for another board. I just did a quick cut and paste here, so enjoy...

There is a common misconception that engines need backpressure in order to run properly, generate low end torque, etc. That is simply untrue. Backpressure is a bad thing. Always. Take a look at a top fuel dragster...how much backpressure do you think those zoomie headers make? Very little, and those engines produce 6500 hp.

So, what is backpressure? Any fluid flowing through a pipe experiences drag on the walls of the pipe. This depends on a number of factors, including the diameter of the pipe, the smoothness of the inside of the pipe, the viscosity of the fluid, and the velocity of the fluid. This drag results in a pressure drop through the pipe. In order for the fluid to flow at all, the pressure on one end of the pipe must be higher than at the other. In an exhaust system, that pressure drop is what we refer to as backpressure. It's pretty obvious that the engine has to produce this pressure differential, so the less power it has to spend making pressure to push the exhaust out, the more power it can send to the wheels.

Given that exhaust pipes are pretty smooth, and that we can't change the viscosity (thickness) of the waste gas being forced through the pipes, we are left with basically 2 parameters we can have any control over: The pipe diameter and the gas velocity.

Unfortunately, the pipe diameter controls the gas velocity since the volume of gas is prescribed by the engine. So, we really only have one thing we can change. So, bigger pipes allow less pressure drop for a given volume of gas because the velocity is lower. The pressure drop (backpressure increase) is proportional the gas velocity squared, so if I double the gas velocity (by reducing the cross sectional area of the exhaust pipe by half) then I quadruple the pressure drop.

Well, there's an easy solution for that: Just make the exhaust pipe bigger. Bigger pipe, lower gas velocity, less pressure drop, so less backpressure. Wow, that was easy. After all, this is the way it's done for basically any type of commercial plumbing system. Need less pressure drop on a chilled water pipe or a natural gas line? Just make the pipe bigger.

But wait, there's a problem....Having a huge exhaust pipe has killed my low end torque!!! What's different? Oh, there's no backpressure!! Therefore backpressure makes torque!

Wrong.

An exhaust system is different than just about any other plumbing situation. How? Because the flow is pulsed, and this turns out to be a big deal. Every time a pulse of exhaust gas runs through the pipe, a strange thing happens: it as it passes, it has a little area of vacuum behind it. Just like a NASCAR stocker running around the track, the pulse generates a little bit of a vacuum behind it. In NASCAR, a driver can take advantage of another driver's vacuum by getting right behind him and driving in it. The wind resistance is drastically reduced. This is called drafting.

Well, how big the vacuum behind each pules is depends on the gas velocity. The higher the velocity, the bigger the vacuum the pulse has behind it.

Now, this means that I can "draft" the next pulse, just like in NASCAR. In NASCAR, it's called drafting, in an exhaust system, it's called scavenging. You've probably seen this term used when talking about headers, but the same concept applies in the pipe.

I get the maximum scavenging effect if the gas velocity is high, so the pipe needs to be small. By maximizing the scavenging effect, I help to pull pulses out of the combustion chamber, which means the engine doesn't have to work as hard to do that.

This has the most effect when there's a bunch of time between pulses...in other words, at low rpm. As the revs rise, the pulsed flow becomes more and more like constant flow, and the scavenging effect is diminished.

So, at low rpm I need a small pipe to maximize scavenging, and at high rpm I need a big pipe to minimize pressure drop. My exhaust pipe can only be one size, so it's a compromise. For a given engine, one pipe diameter will make the most overall power (i.e., have the largest area under the curve on a dyno chart).

So, the loss of torque has nothing to do with backpressure, and everything to do with gas velocity. So you need exhaust components that are not restricive (manifolds/headers, mufflers) and that are sized correctly for your application.

To further dispel the "backpressure is necessary" theory, try this if you want. If you have access to a vehicle with open headers, make a block off plate that will bolt to the collector. This plate should have only a 1" hole in it for the exhaust to flow through. That will give you PLENTY of backpressure, and zero scavenging. Then you can report back on how much low end power it has.

I hope this is enough for someone to get some sense.. this is the best of my knowledge.

 

you say these two things then follow up with this


wouldn't those last two things imply that the exhaust gasses are creating a vacuum? or at least a low pressure zone behind them? doesn't that go against what you where saying to start with?



and if your going to copy and paste info at least give credit

Exhaust: The straight scoop on backpressure - DSM Forums

Clark's Garage Message Board :: View topic - backpressure, scavenging, exhaust sizing, etc (Long)

 

i wrote that on dsm forums... user name nelapse look it up slick
Funny, trying to call me out... some people want facts and apparently some others have hidden agendas.... good luck on your quest to somehow bring me down.
also look on dodgetrucks.org user name nelapse wrote that same article in i believe may 05 one other forum i was on...

 

if it was you then ok I guess but on the dsm forums it was written as jbranne for the username not nelapse and I have had a history of people claiming things that where not of there own. stupid aol chat rooms can be interesting though.

as far as me just trying to bring you down why would I do that? your a thirdgen owner? maybe cause you have owned an import? who knows I really don't

the only thing that I don't understand is you post to comments at first that don't seem right. "can't put too big of a piipe on the exhaust it will create a vacuum which will ruin low end torque." then you follow it up with a post saying "your exhaust scavanging is done by action like drafting or following in the low pressure (like a vacuum) zone of the object in front of it"


which is it?

I agree more with your last post on that write up then I do with your previous post. if you would of posted something like that to start with I would of not said anything. it was your first few post that led me otherwise which also led me to believe this write up you did was copied from someone else

 

that write up is something I made on Dsm tuners when i owned an eclipse and on dodge trucks when someone claimed i lost torque due to me straight piping my muffler on my truck. all the statements i said are valid depending on how you look at them. Just use the complete write up to use complete context. I am too tired to argue and play professor right now. and I have had alot of people copy that from me, and I have no problem whatsoever. Anyways, what said is said and there is no need to drag this disgraceful thread out anymore. Its off topic and very hopeless...
The vaccuum is hard to explain, Its like something I need to use my hands for you know... but when you have a certain force, going down something and is not forceful enough to establish equal pressure, the unequal pressures will force the flow unstable and create a sort of vaccuum that will slow flow.. does this make any sense?

 

mind if I take it to pm tomorrow then. drugs wearing off so I want to go to bed soon

 

Nah. It seems these cars are cheap and since the nice ones are fast, even the slow ones would be fast in some people's eyes. Every day I see kids getting the V6 and talking like it's the fastest thing ever and how they have 10K to drop into the engine to make it fast. What parents is going to say "you can't have a V8, but you can completely overhaul your V6 with your uncle". Sounds more like "I can afford a V8 so here's an excuse". Everyone here gave great advice, do mods that can convert over for when you do a V8 swap if you're actually serious about performance.

 

"you can't have a V8, but you can completely overhaul your V6 with your uncle"

sounds like the parrents already know that the v6 will always be slow, so it isan't much of a threat.

i could make my 305 quicker then it is, but i refuse to drop more money then what is needed to keep it running into it, its slow.

i'll put a 350 in before i start "moding" it if ever.

 

My 3.4 GMC Jimmy has a 3" setup with headers on it. I wouldn't run anything smaller. I had gains going from the stock 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 and then again when I went to 3".