Beachmonkey6

I found this repair kit on ebay that says:

"Save money and rebuild your headlight motors. If your headlight motor runs but the lights are not going up and down 99% of the time the problem is in the bushings. These bushings are the exact size of the original bushings. The bushings are stronger than the factory nylon. Your bidding on 2 sets of 3 bushings enough to fix 2 headlight motors. Fits 1987-92 Firebird / Trans-Am. Instructions included."

Is this true? Do i just need to replace these bushings and not buy a whole new motor? The motor does run, but it doesnt move the light.

88trans_am_gta

its a plastic gear thats stripped out. at least in my case it was. autozone was 100$ with a lifetime warranty. i dont think the bushings would be bad as i pulled my old motor apart and the inside was fine. if you haven't yet, pull the motor apart and check the plastic gear. you'll be looking for a bunch of what used to be plastic teeth that are now garbage.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

out of the 8 sets of headlights I have fixed, all of them had the bushing problem.

I would get the set from TDS,
http://www.top-downsolutions.com/pro...products_id=87

I've used this kit on 7 of the sets.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

The Top-Down Solutions kit is first class. I used it on my car. It comes with everything you will need and is clearly the way to go.

Beachmonkey6

The plastic gear in mine is not stripped. So it must be the bearings, I will buy this repair kit. Thank yall for your help!

Beachmonkey6

I just took apart the motor assembly again trying to find where the bushings are supposed to go and i cant figure it out. There doesnt seem to be a spot for them anywhere.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

When you pull the cover off, there will be 3 pockets on the side of the gear where the bushings sit, the pockets are oblong shaped.

Beachmonkey6

I just hadnt taken the gear off the metal axle piece. The bushings that are alreading in there are just fine, they look brand new. now what does this mean? ... The gear runs, but the headlight does not pop up, the gear is not stripped, and the bushings look brand new.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

post some pictures so we can see.

Randy82WS7

id like to see pics too i took my pass side motor apart and i dont see a bushing or whatever, i posted a thread asking to see what they look liek but no one wants to help around here

i assume the bushings is supposed to be in the hole that the gear steel shaft sits in, in both housing halves ?

but i dont see a bushing in them ?

how would you remove them anyways ?
ppl sure dont seem to want to be very helpful at all when it comes to motor assemblies info

hum.,

Beachmonkey6

Randy82WS7, the bushings are between the plastic gear and the axle looking thing that the gear is attatched to. You must pull the gear off of this metal piece to find the bushings. I will post pics later today.

Beachmonkey6

Heres a couple pictures of the gear with the bushings inside. They are hard plastic bushings, so im guessing they were replaced by a previous owner. But if they are good and the gear is not stripped then what is the problem?

Beachmonkey6

Any other opinions?

pr1689

When I had this issue on my nephew's firebird, I inspected the gear a little closer and found that the gear was worn down just enough so that it wouldn't engage properly to raise the headlight.

When I went to do the other headlight, the bushings were pulverized and were basically just a bunch of grit, just crumbled. After putting everything back in, the light wouldn't work. Found out that the motor wasn't getting power and that there was short to the headlight motor. After fixing these things, the motors worked perfectly.

I too prefer the kit from Top-Down solutions!

Good luck,

Pat

soultron

iTrader: (2)

I bought the kit from ebay before I joined thirdgen. My lights wouldn't pop up, and when I'd try to crank them they'd fall down quik. It works well and was quite easy. Now I actually need one of the relay thingies from TDS. The lights don't always go up, but I can still crank them just fine.

Beachmonkey6

I no longer think i need the kit because the bushings that are already in the motor assembly look fine. I guess it is possible that the gear is a little stripped, even though it doesnt look like it at all and there arent any type of shavings anywhere inside the assembly.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Sure the motor is actually humming? Could be the guide module on the firewall.

-- Joe

Beachmonkey6

The motor is definitely turning. I can see the manual **** at the tob of the motor turn when i push the headlight button.

suh_wheat_86305

iTrader: (1)

help... I've searched. My right headlight will not acutate up. Once up, it will go down. Activating the "lights on" switch moves only the left side assembly. Then, I pop the hood, get out and manually crank up the right side. It goes back down fine.

I check the three relays in the circut and they seem OK.

To inspect the inside of the motor assebmly, the rivets need to be drilled-out. After the rivet is destroyed, some fastners would need to sourced. Is this the typical housing separation process?

puttputt

Can somebody please tell me what it is that the bushings do? How are they necessary in order for the lights to go up?

fishing1

In the process of rebuilding my headlight mo0tor with the kit from topdown. I got distracted by my kids and forgot wear on the shaft the spacers go. My best guess was on the shaft with the gear bellow the gear between the motor housing and the part that holds the replacement bushings in place. I have everything back togethor and it turns free just wanted to double check. Since you have done a bunch I was hoping you may recall.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure you solved your problem already. I'm posting this info in case someone else is experiencing your specific problem. OK, bushings and gear appear good, so what else could it be? The other thing to check is that the cast zinc 3-lobe hub that is pressed onto the actuator shaft is still good. I've discovered on a few customers cars that were already repaired with my headlight repair kit previously that the spline on the shaft can strip out the
hub and spin under load. Test this by holding the shaft in a vise by the flats and try to rotate the hub. If it turns, you've found the problem. Drive out the shaft from the hub. Use a file of dremel tool with a fiber-reinforced metal cutoff wheel to grind a flat in the shaft where is mounts to the hub. Drill through one of the lobes of the hub and tap it for a set screw. The set screw will hold onto that flat you ground. Test the shaft in the vise again to see if you solved the problem. As an extra assurance dissemble the shaft from the hub again and mix some epoxy to smear on the hub and shaft before you reassemble them. I always thought the OD of the gear woule be the second failure mode (after the hard gel oem bushings). I discovered the shaft/hub interface can be the second failure mode.

PS: Top-Down Solutions is currently offline while we update the site with new software. Phone me if you need parts or further help in repairing these 87-92 (two-wire) headlight motors.

Lon Salgren
626-369-0040

Cybrjaz

Okay ... I have different problem ... what if you have a motor that continues to run for about ten seconds AFTER the headlight has opened or closed (both positions result in the same action) ... once the headlight opens/closes completely then the motor continues to run making a horrible racket and bouncing the light assembly ... Thoughts?

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

You need a headlight repair kit. Here is why. What is going on is that the bushings (and chunks of former bushings) are still working well enough to raise and lower the headlight buckets fairly consistently. However they are not solid enough for the headlight control module to do its primary job. Here is how the system works. Press the headlight switch, power goes out through the wiring to the headlight control module. It distributes power to each of the headlight motors. It then waits for feedback from the headlight motor in the form of a spike in the current from the headlight bucket reaching its physical stop. When the module senses that spike in current it shuts off the power to the headlight motor. In your case the motor is raising or lowering the headlight bucket, but there is no spike in current because the beginnings are broken to the point that the gear will continue to spin on the 3-lobe hub that is staked onto the shaft that raises and lowers the headlight bucket. Fortunately GM designed a secondary timed circuit that shuts off the motors after 6 seconds. If that secondary system was not present your motor would continue to spin and you'd return to your car to find a dead battery. When you open your headlight motor housings and replace the is left of the original gel bushings with the Delran ones from a headlight repair kit your problem will be solved. You'll be amazed when you open the gear and discover chunks and powder from the original bushings.

Lon Salgren

Cybrjaz

Lon,

You know your stuff brother ... ordered the little kit from you ... pulled out the old motor (painfully - you would think they would make it just a little bit easier to get at teh bolts holding that damned thing on ... geez) ... and dumped out a bunch of dust ... new parts in - installed - works like a charm ...

I'm going to order another kit for the other side just so I'm sure they are both done right ... thanks again!!!

knight72

I have same problem as Cybrjaz in both sides.. Pass side was bad and was replaced (the whole assembly with rebuilt and tested motor btw).

The motors also run for about 5 seconds when i put the ignition switch to ON but they are not opening/closing in this case... and i'm not even touching the headlight button.

What do you guys think... Do i have a bad module?

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Is there an aftermarket alarm system installed on your car? It sounds as if the "flash on" circuit to momentarily blink on the headlights feature of an alarm system. If so, cut that wire that was spliced to the headlight motor circuit and rewire it to the headlamp circuit.

Lon

knight72

no alarm installed..... i'll get a new module just in case.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

In your case the headlight module is easy to find at a Pick-a-Part. Any model year 1990-2002 Firebird can supply a doner module for your '92 Firebird. Sadly it is not so easy of a solution for those with 87-89 model year 'Birds since it was only used for those 3 model years. The modules look the same, but internally they are different.

Good Luck,

Lon

goliath88

just rebuilt mine. put in metal bushings. packed it with some ky jelly. works effin great. got the kit on ebay for like 10 bucks

SaxophoMan

I used the headlight motor kit (Delux headlight repair kit) from top-down solutions to repair mine. Problem I had was that the headlights would pop up when only turning on the parking lights. Within a week of this problem starting, they struggled to pop up at all. I found that the plastic bearings in the headlamp actuator unit failed. They were nothing but what looked like cookie crumbles. There are two reasons, I believe, for the bearings to fail:
1) There clearly wasn't nearly enough lubricant
2) The lubricant that was there appeared to have degraded into a thick paste-like substance
When doing the repair, first be careful about taking off the steel screws for the motor housing and the gear housing. I very liberally used PB Blaster because I really didn't want to break any screws. After some time, patience, and lots of PB Blaster, they came out easily.
Only thing that I really struggled with was reinstalling the LH motor. Instructions for the repair kit said to use the paper clip method to grasp the copper wires that would retract the springs and brushes. This didn't work for me. All it did was deflect the brushes and because of this they couldn't move through the guide tracks. I ended up having to hook the end of the brushes with the paperclips to retract the springs and brushes. This was an enormous PITA and I needed another pair of hands to do this.
That all being said, I'm glad top-down solutions had an inexpensive repair with pretty good detailed instructions and that the actuators work perfectly now.

Hello, Michael

I went with the kit from TDS. Worth the money and not too bad of a job to do. The bushings on my passenger side were completely turned to dust and the bushings on the driver side basically crumbled in my hands.

FRMULA88

I ordered the deluxe kit (rebuilds the pair plus new gaskets and hardware)

My passenger side gave up after 25 years LOL, so going to do both.

FRMULA88

RH side the bushings were crumbled... cleaned the debris and replaced with new bushings done. works like new.

going to do the LH side next it still work but 25years is 25 years.. if one side gave up the other will sooner or later.


I can see why the late model Vette's finally stopped using pop up headlights, cut costs, and free up some weight... I like the Daytona styling better.

wish I could get a kit for mine... clear lenses for the headlight doors and smaller HID bulbs to work with the body lines of the car..

FRMULA88

The "dust" you see on my tool box are the remains of the (3) original bushings.


total job took less than 1 hour including removal and installing the headlight assembly from the car.


next will be the LH side which still works but I bought the deluxe kit for 25 $ to rebuild both.

Herkyone23

I pulled my GTA out of storage after 10 years and I think I need one of those kits. My problem is pretty much the same as everyone else, but I cant even manually crank mine up. I can pull the passenger side light up by hand but the driver side wont budge at all. I assume the rebuild kits from TDS come with directions??? Hell for $20 it's almost preventative maintenance.

Miami350

I have the same problem im very new to pop up headlights my question is how do u manu crank them up

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

If you wait until the headlights won't manually crank up, then you've turned a one-man job into a two-man job. Someone will need to press on/off the headlight switch as you grab hold of the headlight door. Shake the door while you lift on it. The headlight door will eventually come up suddenly from your banging, shaking and lifting. Be sure to have plenty of curse words on hand.

There should be a ribbed black plastic **** on the top of the headlight actuator shaft. If your **** is missing you can turn the splined shaft that is poking out of the motor using locking pliers. The **** can easily be replaced with one from a Pick-a-Part yard.

Lon

Miami350

The plastic ***** r there they spin

Herkyone23

Then turn the **** counter-clockwise, if they don't go up then your in the same boat as me. Do the ***** spin on their own when you turn the light switch on?

Miami350

Ill let u know soon if they spin while motor on at work

TZFBird

FYI there are some Mustang window motor bushings that work and should be available in the HELP section of the parts store. I believe they were only $4 for 3 but that was probably 10 years ago.

Herkyone23

I pulled my headlight assemblies out the other day and took them apart and sure enough they were full of powder. I ordered the rebuild kit from TDS. Will update how it goes after install.

Just a side note...I know it may be obvious to some but it's way easier to pull the headlight assembly out with the bulbs out. Took me about 30 minutes to figure that out. I also read somewhere to mark the four assembly mount bolts with a sharpie before you remove them too aid in the alignment during install.

Heatzone25

No, u can use a piece of 3/8 inch rubber hose. Cut it so its about 1/2 inch long.

Heatzone25

Look at those 3 little white things in the picture. Those are what goes bad, you can substitute small pieces of rubber hose instead. LOL. It works great.

FRMULA88

until the rubber breaks down and crumbles.. so you band aide it and screw the next buyer, nice.

If the original parts lasted 25+ years, the correct new replacements will as well maybe longer because they are Delrin, not UHMW

@ $ 12.50 each side that is money well spent.

1 dollar per year or .0028 cents per day.

Herkyone23

Got my rebuild kit from TDS the other day, and it worked great! Took me about a hour to do both sides. I can recomend TDS and the kit.

mrobertson

[QUOTE=Beachmonkey6;3289263]Heres a couple pictures of the gear with the bushings inside. They are hard plastic bushings, so im guessing they were replaced by a previous owner. But if they are good and the gear is not stripped then what is it .

mrobertson

Hey , just a heads up ! I just fixed my lights with a hot glue stick . I cut three pieces the exact lenght as the depth of the gear and they work perfect . Cost about .10 cents and about 2 hours to fix both lights .

Hello, Michael

Is the hot glue stick the same diameter as the bushings? If not, then there might be backlash between them which might cause problems. I'd be wary of them lasting very long, but hey you never know.