Here is the deal,
I am ready to get myself a new cam to wake up my car even more.

I have aluminum TPI heads which have a max lift of .480

I want to use a LT4 cam or ZZ4 cam, lift of around .525 (with my 1.6 rrs)

Obviously I need new springs.

The thing is, is there a direct replacement spring that will handle that much lift that will require no machining? Or will have to get the heads cut?

 

Are you sure about the clearance? I was running those heads with .517 on the exhaust side and had a little to spare plus the .060 safety cushion from the locks to the seals.

 

How exactly do you test the max lift for your heads? No, I am not sure, those are the specs for the L98 heads not the corvette version.

 

The original factory production line aluminum L98 Corvette heads maxed out around .470" lift. That's the point at which the retainers hit the valve guide seals. The springs would do more than that, but still not .525" I know becuase I owned a set and measured everything out one night. It would take more than just a different set of springs to make them live with the ZZ4 cam.

Now, the otherwise identical heads they put on the ZZ4 crate motor are a little different story- same basic casting as the Vette heads but with modifications, most notably they are opened up for a lot more lift (since the ZZ4 is .525 on the exhaust right from the factory). I'm sure the springs are different to take that much lift, too.

 

Well there were two castings. 113's and 128's

 

ZZ4 camshaft is .474/.510 lift with 1.5 rockers. .525 is the LT4 HOT cam with 1.6 rockers.

Manley springs part number 22410-16 with 23652-16 +.050 retainers fit right on the ZZ4/L98 heads (and the Vortecs) with no machining required. They can handle .550 lift easy. I used them on my L98 heads with the LT4 HOT cam and 1.65 rockers on the intake side. (.541 lift)
However, always double check your clearances. Just because they fit on my heads doesnt mean they will fit on yours.

 

113 heads can use ZZ4 springs, shims and caps . Install with no machining required. Will give you .525 lift with a .06 safety margin.

 

sorry to bring back from the dead but will those springs and locks fit on iron L98 heads as well?

 

Yes.

 

This is so old, most people already moved on to Teslas hahahaha

Question though if anyone is still listening to this buried thread especially @Kevin91Z:

I got the: 113 heads, Hot Cam, Manley 23652 retainers, Manley 22410 springs, Ultra Pro Magnum Roller rocker arms 1618 (1.6) and now, do I use the stock retainer locks or do I need to buy new "improved"?
Also, the spring cups wont fit into the Manley retainers so leave them out or do I need new ones that fit?

Anything would help tremendously

 

Stock keepers are TRASH. Throw them where they belong and put in something decent. Manley, Comp, Lunati, etc. all offer suitable products.

You MUST have some sort of spring cup, ID locator, or SOMETHING, on aluminum heads; otherwise the end of the spring will chew right through the casting. So yes, you'll need new ones that fit. I'd suggest Manley 42142 since you already have all that other Manley stuff. Might require slight machine work (cutting out the seat OD to accommodate them, I don't know about that for sure.

 

OK.....I got my order in and had my heads machined. Picked them up from the shop and I'm not sure what I was looking at but I took one valve springs off and this is what I found. The bottom actually has a locator for the spring and test fitted the new Manley springs by hand and it seemed solid, no movements. Now the cups on top of the springs and below the retainers...what are those????



Did the machine shop make a mistake? I mean, those are still the OEM springs and everything else....only thing they did was 3 angle valve job and new valve seals. I will be replacing all them springs and retainers.

 

I checked pictures when I pulled the heads out of an 88 Corvette allegedly stock. Those top "cups" were there....machine shop just reinstalled what was given to them....can't blame them

 

The "cups" are oil splash shields. Also TRASH. Just abuncha dead weight in the worst possible place. Put em in the trash where they belong.

Also, I can't really tell for sure from your pic, butt it looks like the original "rotators" on top of the exhaust springs are still there. More TRASH and EVEN MORE dead weight. Those though, you may end up needing ALOT more shim under the springs on the exh side, to take up that space; around .120" or so.

Shim up the springs to whatever installed height Manley calls for. Put the shims underneath the spring locators or cups. You don't say what cam you're running so I can't comment on which direction you should err towards, since "perfect" is unattainable... like, if your thinnest shim is .015", and it doesn't hit it right on the nose, do you set it up at .010" too little installed height, or .005" more. Sometimes details like that are REALLY important.

In a perfect world, you'd be getting the guides cut down to either .500" or .530" so you can use one of those 2 standard Teflon seal sizes, which then also allows you to use the ID type of locator which also come in those sizes, as well as the superior seals. Of course I don't know if you're having that done either. Butt if they were mine, I would. If you're having that done, don't bother with the O-rings. If you use those, the order that things go onto the head is: valve in, shims on head, locators on shims, seals on, springs on, retainer on, compress the springs, slide the O-rings down past the keeper groove, put on the keepers, let up on the compressor. The O-ring compresses around the valve stem inside the retainer, around the stem, and under the keepers. All itg does is, keep oil that collects on top of the retainer, from running down the valve stem. Butt if you put in TRULY EFFECTIVE seals, none of that matters at all, which is why you can then just leave em off. Less weight, go faster.

 

Gotchaaaaa.....I was actually thinking the same, just wanting second opinion. Also, I mentioned what I was running a little earlier but here it is: 113 heads, Hot Cam GM 24502586, Manley 23652 retainers, Manley 22410 springs, Ultra Pro Magnum Roller rocker arms 1618 (1.6 ratio)

Good info on that O ring install...I took mine apart and there were none, so I guess machine shop maybe "forgot" to install? Anyways...I was also maybe thinking of installing the top hat type stem seals....that way it really gonna keep that oil out?

 

Not sure those will fit over the valve guides and inside the springs. They look like they're for LS motors, not the old SBC. I don't know of any for SBC that fit without machining. Which if you have to do that, best to go with Teflon ones like these. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-503-16

Be aware that the lift you're going to end up with is RIGHT ON THE ABSOLUTE RAGGED EDGE for those springs. As in, NO ROOM WHATSOEVER for any kind of error in setup. Be certain you have all the right tools and parts to get them PERFECT. Might want to consider using something more like this https://www.texas-speed.com/p-6431-p...-pac-1219.aspx with the Comp "adapter" retainers https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-787-16 to leave yourself a little wiggle room.

 

Good choice of springs, iirc the last set of 113s I had redone I used comp 981-16 but a beehive spring will allow for more lift after the guide is cut.

 

OK....so this morning I measured the spring height with the Manley 23652 retainers installed, it came exactly to 1.75o" as per directions. Im very happy!

 

Chad Speier can do 8mm valves, guides and spring/retainer kit for your 113 heads. Probably make it easier to run a modern lobe if you are dead set on keeping the 113 heads. Just throwing it out there.