ok, ive been helpng toxic out with trying to come up with a setup. i figure with todays tech/tuning abilities that we can go a little bit more aggressive on the head combo. well here it is. please only add constructive things, no bs.

heads: i figure a low-high end head like a 210-215 intake and 75-80cc exhaust. now i would like to see a 2.02 intake instead of the 2.08. choces are vic jr, tfs-r, afr 210's, or dart pro 1's

cam: the cam is up in the air. for the lower end with these heads would be a 224-228 @.050, i would want a much faster ramp rate than usual. think xer type lobe. an xfi will do but rather the xer be used. the higher end would be a 232-236 @.050 or even a 240 for a screamer. most likely the 23x would be used in that case. same ramp rate as before although with the same lift will make it a softer hitting cam. lift would be 520-540 or more depending on head charecteristics..think.. port cross section, velocity, mid lift numbers, etc. springs id like to see used would be patriot golds with ti retainers as they can take a hell of a lot of abuse, are good to 650 lift, and are 255 for the set with retainers, locks, and seals.

Intake: well, this is up in the air but im going to reccomend a carb style efi for versatility. maybe use an ellbow and a stock ls1 tb or use a 4bbl tb. 28-36lb injectors will be perfect. now, it would be either an rpm airgap type for more streetability or a vic jr for more power. i imagine tuning will be able to make this more tame for the street.

with the higher end of all 3 of these i think a 6500rpm, 500hp, 350 sbc is nnot out of the question at all. ideas?

 

thanks for your help man, and others that want to chime in

 

okay you are kinda all over the place what do you plan to do with this car?

 

not really the heads are more brand port design related as the same size runner can act very differently. with the cams theres 2 basic choices, 2-3 derees wont mean too much in a street/strip car. with the intakes its a choice of lower powerband or higher powerband. see what im saying?
ie i could use pro1's, a 228/228 530/530, and the vic jr or use a 234/236 530/530 and an rpm airgap and get to the same conclusion. im trying to think of the best combo of given choices for a motor. on the one hand, the vic would breath up top and still be decent with a good stall and 3.73s while conversly, the rpm airgap will have a lower power band produce about the same power but idle in a harsher manner and have a lil less vaccum and such. (there are many ways to the same answer)

 

im looking to get somewhere around 500hp, i would like it to be some what streetable

 

500 streetable HP means big cubic inches or power adder.

Which way do you want to go?

 

so what can i get with heads cam intake ? hmmm what if a power adder went on top of it....{ just curious} but what can i get with that and with just heads cam intake and aew other thing how much can i get streetable hp

 

I'm not the worlds best engine builder and do not intend to add bs...however I would recommend the Vic.JR for any application here. The rpm range this intake is capable of is actually quite wide despite it's rated 3-8. It may take more cubes to get 500hp without twisting it tight. Have you thought about a bore and stroke or Dart (whomever you like) aftermarket casting capable of more cubes? A 427 combo can belt out 500 hp without a sweat.Why not think torque here...use a looser lobe center to spread the curve and you can go bigger on the lift with 1.6 rockers

....just some initial thoughts and my two cents.


ps think about some 6 inch rods too.

 

so would it just be better to try and get less ? ive no prob with that, how much can i get

 

somewhat streetable.. you mean you might take it to the track once a week or take it to work once a week?... what i am getting at is why build a screamer like that unless you are going to be racing it often...

if you plan to have fun and drive it on the street i would say look for tourqe not HP.... if you want to buy aftermarket heads like AFR stay away from the bigger 210's... people seem to like the 195's for a reason... they work good for the 350

if you didnt want to spend that much on heads... why not go with a set of vortecs...

they have also been proven to 400+ hp and 400+ ft lbs

i just got my cam in today for my vortec engine i went with the xe274-10
10.90:1 CR

engine dyno2003...however good that is says 421HP @6000

and 423 ft lbs@ 4500 it goes above 400 ft lbs @ 3000 RPMS

should be a pretty fun engine

 

i dont mind buying the afr 195 elemenators actly that was what i was going to start with and find cam and intake to match. i dont go to the track yet but im tring to make it a weekly thing i do. last track seson my trans blew out on me and this one im fixing my cooling system wich should be fixed this week.i would like it build "screamer " that i can drive to work and also have ton-o-fun at the track

 

Toxic, I'll give you my experiance...I built a 406sbc for my C-10 all stock truck. It has a 3.08 open diff, a turbo350 with a kit, 235/70-15s and is all stock otherwise.The 406 was built on a budget and the best money I put into it was the heads. They are the 200cc, 2.02 intake World Products Sportsman heads with 64cc fastburn style chambers.I used a 270 Comp cam with 1.6 roller tip rockers and an Edelbrock RPM intake with a 770 Street Avenger. I also put 5.7 swap meet rods in it along with a kit from Summit. I had the piston tops milled to make the compression streetable. I did not do any head or carb mods so I really feel the package was to some degree limited, there should be more HP easilly made in this engine.When driving the black marks are non stop, its funny actually, even rolling out to the top of the speedo this thing leaves rubber shadow on the asphalt. On a road that isnt perfectly dry it will break loose at any given speed...90mph? No prob. It will torque the chassis even at 100mph. I never ran it as fast as it would go but the speedo mad it look like 130 was only a few seconds away from 0. I had no overheating issues with a 3 row radiator and timming it was no hassle with the relatively low compression. The truck ran mid 13s at the strip. Really not all that, but not bad for no traction and 4100 pounds. In an F body this mill would be great fun. Am I cooky? Not really, I've been into cars for many years, I have never had the money to really build an engine. I had a 383 Plymouth that ran well, I had a 327 that was fun and the 305 in my TA ran mid 14s at the 1/4 mile. My point is that if you can find a 400 or a built 406 you will realize that size matters and a few bucks spent on good parts will yeild the power you want.So am I bragging? No. I wanted to give you an idea of what a 406 can do with only a few thousand dollars. Build a 383 or a 400/406

 

it can be done and i think the intake choice has been chosen. if the vic jr can be used without killing too much down low then use it. i put up a 200+cc head because a motor with less cubes can use it just fine in stock apps. just do not use iron heads. itll all come down to cam selection either way. with the better flowing heads itll take a smaller cam to get the same power.

i would like to add that a motor is not being built. we are working with a 350 cid motor with a 4" bore and 3.48 stroke. nothing more atm.

 

okay if you are only going to build a 350 than 200-210ccs are still big the 195s are better by screamer are you talking like 6k or 7.5k+? because even a dual plane will breath to 6-6500 and wont mess with low end torque as much

and those 200cc heads GI is talking about went on a 406 buy no means a 350... those heads on a 350 would have horrible velocity which is just as important as volume...

 

volume is part of it but design is much more important. if the port is longer or taller or wider will effect how it reacts. i have 260cc heads on my 364 as an example. also, ramp rate will be a factor, the faster ramps will create a lil more tq and power compared to the lazier lobed cams. which of those heads have the longest runner?