If your new lifters utilize a link bar, inspect them for the word “UP”, or an arrow (

 

i have circled them

 

lol....I hear ya!..but these dont have an arrow or an "up" the tie bars are blank on both side.. that may be for the BB lifter cause their tie bars are not straight across like mine are. but thanks for pointing that out to me. The mark you see is just that scratch on the bar.

 

I completely disagree with you as well sir........race teams do alot of testing before racing their car.......they dont just drop a fresh motor in and say "here ya go hope everything works right"........another point is why do you think they rebuild their motor after every race?

 

["here ya go hope everything works right"........[/QUOTE]

thats funny! I cracked up when I read that

 

yes they do alot of testing... on parts. they arent out breaking in a engine on the street... they are making 5000+rpm runs...after breakin on a stand.
and they rebuild not because it needs one but because it is so cheap why chance losing for a couple thousand $$$

all driving like a blue haired old lady is gonna do for you is make it take longer but if you like going 25 in a 45 by all means... but then why build a engine to do that?

 

You should be able to push down on the plunger with your hand, the spring inside isn't that strong. If you can't push down on it, it would act like a solid lifter.... except without any lash, and on a hydraulic cam
Can you see the cam? Check the lobes on #7, if they are "funny looking" you wiped the cam The rollers look fine on #7?

I'd take apart the lifter that you can't compress. You have the pliers to remove those snap rings? See if there's some junk in there.

 

Just to help aleviate the arguments of opinion, the following is the generally recommended procedure for break in which is currently being taught throughout automotive schools nationwide:

1)Start and immediately increase to 1500-2000rpm and hold for 20 minutes
2)Shut down engine and check and/or reset ignition timing to spec
3)Take for 20 to 30 minute drive and do the following:
...a. Although some ring manufacturers no longer recommend this its still a generally recommended procedure, accelerate to 50 mph and allow engine braking to bring the speed back down to 30mph
...b. Accelerate aggresively but not to wide open throttle, staying below 75% of engine load but close to that threshold. Repeat this about a dozen times. The acceleration will help the rings seal with good pressure around them. The high vacuum during deceleration helps keep the cylinder walls and rings well lubricated as the rings break in.

DO NOT over rev the engine or drive at excessive speeds. Any smoking from the exhaust should noticable diminish after this process, although a little blue smoke is still normal.

...c. after this the car should avoid maximum loading or extensive idling, and for the next 2,000 miles the engine should not be revved high or driven at high speeds. The more the rpm's are varied the better it is for the rings. Aggressive driving is ok and actually good, but not to the point of abuse.
...d. And definitely dont forget the 500 mile oil change. Also is the recommended time to switch to synthetics if desired.

And I'm not going to debate all this. If anyone has a problem with the above recommendations then take it up with "Thomson/Delmar Learning(todays technician) Automotive Engine Repair & Rebuilding 3rd edition, which is used by a huge # of automotive colleges and is the current(2006)edition not an old edition.

 

I tried looking down there at the cam lobes when I pulled the lifter but I cant see down there. Im not going to mess with trying to take the lifter apart..that might void the warranty with Comp.

how long would it take to wipe a cam lobe?

if I put it all back together how will I know if the cam is wiped?

I just looked at one of the vids that I made and could see that the rocker when I had ot on the exhaust side of the number 7 was moving normal just like the other rockers..so I should be ok....Im hoping!

 

I have this strange feeling that you sir have never built an engine before...?

 

This is pretty obvious that this is the precedure for break in for a flat tappet cammed motor. This does not apply for a roller motor. Judging from your post from firebird nation, I do not think you have built a motor yourself Either.

There is a difference between breaking in a camshaft and a motor.

When you buy that nice Kia Sephia you've always wanted, you think they tell you to drive it certain ways? How about when you buy that ZO6? No. You may have a misinformed car sales man who may say something of the sort, but if he knew what he was talking about in the first place he wouldn't be selling cars now would he?

I have no beef with you Frank, just disagree with you.
----------
I just want to make sure I did not miss this, did you already check the motor oil for metal? I do agree with sonix, take apart the lifter. I wonder if the plunger is not seated right in the lifter.

 

The valve springs are under the rocker covers. Look for a broken damper spring, and possible pieces of broken valve spring. Check the ends of the springs, do they still taper down where they met the head & retainer, or do they end suddenly with a jagged end? Look at the valve stem seal, is it crushed? Could also pull the retainer and spring for a better look.

I agree with the others that believe the noise is from the valve train. You were able to eliminate the noise with a re-lash on the valves. The noise then came back. So something changed again. Maybe the rocker studs are backing out, maybe a broken spring is binding causing other damage.

It may also be worthwhile to do a cheapy leak down type test. With the rockers on #7 backed off, run some compressed air into that cylinder. Note where the air goes. If you have a blast out the intake, there is an intake valve issue, out the exhaust, an exhaust valve issue. Possibly a bent valve. Some air will leak into the crankcase, this is normal.

RBob.

 

Yea, I goofed, I watched your video. The rockers moved, so your cam should be fine. Or at least not flat, maybe worn a bit though.

It's easy to take apart a lifter, and put it back together. I wouldn't worry about your warantee.
And yes, broken valve spring and crushed valve seal are good things to look for as well.

 

so would me not being able to push the plunger down make the sound that was heard..the tapping sound? what rob said all went over my head.

So do you think I found the problem or will I put it all back together and it will still do it?

 

You need to disassemble your lifter and find out why it won't compress. If it's broken, buy a new one, and/or return that one on warantee.
Also, look closely at your valve springs, you want to see if any are broken. That's what Rob was talking about.

 

Well for one, if you cannot move the plunger you cannot properly set preload.

If you try and set preload on everything else and this particular lifter is "too tall" it could definately make the sound.

The plunger should always be able to move, especially when it is out of the car. One way to prime the lifters is to engage the plungers in a container of oil in order to lube the, up properly.

It is possible if you did not prime them, the internal plunger could have gone astray and got cocked.

However what I would do, is to disassemble and reassemble the lifter, then move that assembly to the other side of the engine that way we can rule out possibilites.

I am surprised you do not have a bent pushrod.

-Cale

 

I just got off the phone with CompCams and talked with them about the lifter. They are cross shipping me a full set of 16 retro 853-16 lifters so I should have the brand new ones Weds...so that means I gotta go take all the f*uckin lifters out..which is a PITA to do cause of the rev kit...but its better to get a full set than one and have another set go out on me down the road. He said I should be ok with my cam not being wiped out...guess we'll see.

I did look real good at the springs on the #7 and didnt see anything out of the ordinary.

 

Well that is good news. It is nice to have a company back up their parts.

Did they do rush delivery of some sort?

 

Did you take apart the #7 lifter (the one that was solid) by chance? I'm curious to see what is in there that would do that.

 

yeah I think thats great that they would do that..I almost hadto beg though. I told them I could wait the up to 3 weeks down time for them to ship me the RMA lifters. THey just shipped Fed-Ex and they are in Tenn and Im in NC so thats only 2 day ship time. Thats if they ship today...Im sure THursday athe latest.

Sonix no I didnt take them apart. I dont have any way of getting the clip out and I would hate to get it out and not be able to put it back in and then get charged for screwing with the lifter.

He told me that reccomended preload on those springs is 1/2 turn past zero lash.

 

im just curious, now what if? when I put it all back together the sound is still there? what would it be? Im hopeing it just the lifters and pretty sure about that but with the luck ive been having on this motor theres always that "what if"

rockers are good
pushrods are good
rocker studs are in thier place
springs look fine from what I can see.

 

Then you go from there. See where the sound is from, if it's still there. Not much else you can do, besides wait and see.

 

yeah I guess your right!.....I know when you guys see a post from me you all are like, "oh man what now?" and laugh. I mean look at the hits on this thread in just 3 days. I find it funny and Im even like oh shet when I have to post something else in here cause I know this site is like.. laughing when they see another post from me...someday this will all end and then maybe I can start helping with all the BS ive gone thru.

But im learning and I guess I was the chosen one to have all the problems.
better me than you guys, huh? I hope none of you all have problems like me when and if you decide to build a new motor.

 

Here is my .02 cents. I am a gm mechanic w/ 12 yrs in. The squeaking sounds like a cam bearing spun and your ticking is definately valve train related. If you have a couple of lifters not functioning in a group or 2 on each side then the spun cam bearing could be blocking your oil supply to those lifters. It would also explain the oil pressure spiking and falling. Just my $.02 right or wrong but you are going down the right path. John

 

Cool that comp cams stepped up and took care of any problem with the lifters real or precieved. At least you can eliminate one possible problem and narrow your search. John

 

how does a spun cam bearing stop oil to the lifters?

 

oh man!..dont tell me that? holy crap!.....well Im draining my oil tomorrow so if there is a spun bearing I should find metal in my oil...my oil pan drain plug is a magnet so there should be metal all over that ...correct?

what would cause a spun cam bearing?

 

let me rephrase that. The spun cam bearing will not stop the oil to the lifters per say but if the bearing spun then the pressure could drop drastically low at that point in the oil feed/passage or send particals into the stream blocking other passages. Doesn't the feed for the cam and lifters go down the center of the lifter valley and split one way to the cam the other way to the lifters? Any ways, We have seen about 10 - 12 R motors (5.7 vortecs 96 - 00) come through with all kinds of oil pressure issues and knocks , ticks, and plain blown up. I buy all of the cores for the heads and blocks and have been finding that 60% of them have the cam bearings spun. Usually 2 - 3 bearings. Of these with the spun bearings more that 1/2 of them make that wierd squeaking noise that some times stops and starts for no apparent reason. Check everything else that is easy to get to first don't just yank the motor on my guess/thoughts. I'm just saying that I have heard that sound before. John

 

drain your oil over a white shop cloth or piece of paper. Any bearing material will show up as grey wit shiny flecks in it. If you run the oil across the cloth/paper then take it over to a bright light they will show up. You don't have to hold oil on the cloth just drain it across it then look. John

 

so what would cause that? the bearing to be spun?

 

here is the diagram very basic but a mechanic with "12 years in" should know how it goes

 

obstructed oil supply, mismade bearing IE: to small outer diameter, to tight cam to bearing clearance, foriegn particals in the oil itself. Not enough break in time before being subjected to extreme rpm/load. Bad block if it had a spun bearing before. But like I said, check everything else that is easy to get to first just file this in the back of your mind as a possibility. I don't want to freak you out, just giving you another angle. John

 

I didn't say I was all knowing just throwing out a theroy. Like I said I have heard that noise before and it is distinct. I also said to check everything else first. By the way your diagram didn't come though.

Ah. there it is. Just slow. John

 

so there should be metal in my oil...right? when I drain it there should be metal all over the magnet drain plug, right?

dont freak out? LOL..I already am!

 

nice diagram. How did you come up with it so quick?lol. Any ways you are right in the aspect that a spun cam bearing won't case the lifter issue but, a spun bearing does sound just like the sound in his motor right or wrong? And a spun cam bearing would cause oil pressure issues yes? So possibly it was an oil feed issue that started it all and we have 2 issues. Thanks for the update. I forgot the little part where the oil split at the back of the block. John

 

The babbit part of the bearing (the grey part) might not stick to the magnet this is why the cloth test picks out the finer particals. If a bearing is worn enough to go into the supporting metal then this would stick to it.

 

great!! just great!....now im going to put everything back together and end up with a spun cam bearing!....now who the hell do I blame for that? the new ****ing oil pump I put it? switching to 10w30 after 1000miles? the lifter going bad? low oil pressure?..
no wait!...my luck thats what I blame it on!!! somebody just doesnt want me to have this motor!

 

like I said, check everything else first. Then If you have to pull the motor as a last resort then check for the bearing issue. John

 

I found this on another site....and it sounds just like mine without the squeling...

so after a cam swap on my car, i got this ticking noise in the motor. i have adjusted, readjusted, and readjusted the rockers some more without getting rid of this noise. i replaced the lifters cause i thought maybe thats what it was, but it still didnt fix it. i posted this video before, but i want to get some second opinions on what it could be. oil pressure is fine when its cold, but after it warms up, it gets very very low. i know everything adds up to a spun bearing, but i want to see if maybe theres something else i should take a look at. this video was taken a while ago, and while the car hasnt been driven for 3 months now, the noise got worse the few times i have started it since then.

http://videos.camaroz28.com/video/a4...3701338a9d.htm

although that sound is deeper in the motor than mine.

LOL..u got me freakin all out!..thanks!...j/k! but I am freakin out!...I dont want to put it all back together and still have to pull it..I would rather pull it now..but then again I dont want to pull it...so damn all this!...LOL

 

So there was or wasn't metal in the oil/drain plug? The best way to find it would to cut the oil filter open.

 

screw it!..Im going to drain the ****ing oil now!......damn all this!...I wont be able to sleep tonight...LOL

be back with the details in a few....


I dont have a way to cut the filter open...if I try to cut it open wont that in itself put metal in it?

let me go sweat my *** off in this heat at 12 midnight!

 

ok heres what I found...first all over the drain plug magnet was just that normal grey looking matter that Ive seen before on my rearend mag and my trans mag...and what I found in the piece of bed sheet that I used from what I could get cause oil does not drain right thru the sheet it spilled all over the ****in place... as this!

I still have cut open the oil filter I dont know what to use...


anyways heres what I found they are the same picture I just brightened it up and contrasted out the table.

 

Hard to say what those pieces are from the picture but there shouldn't be anything that big in your oil pan from a good running motor. You can poke a set of tinsnips through the outer shell of the filter and go around it as close the the threaded end as possible. This way shouldn't leave any filings or pieces in the filter so you can inspect it. The little piece looks ;ike a piece of wire or part of a circlip (sp?) or a spiral lock clip? I am just guessing as it is hard to see. Do the bigger pieces stick to a magnet? One kind of looks like a gasket piece and the others look almost like coper. John

 

I just got a magnet out and yeah all the pieces jumped right to the magnet and stuck...and yeah the color of those couple of peices are copper in color or brass color.

Now since I found these pieces then once I cut the filter open there SHOULD be some in there, correct? Im kinda hoping I dont find anything in there.

 

so we all agree that the rat tat tat noise is valvetrain and hopefully have found the problem with the #7 lifters...correct? ..but we have all forgetten about the sqealing noise...once I found that the tapping noise was gone once I removed the rockers off the #7 which pointed to lifters...I didnt even pay attention to see if the sqeeling was still present. ..

So...and now the topic is the sqeeling noise and the little pieces I found in the oil once I drained it..I still have not ripped apart the filter I need to get some tin snips to do that or take it to shop and see if they will do it for me..which I will do today.

with my oil pressure being low even with the %10 more volume/pressure pump and being in the RED at idle but once criusing it jumps to 39-40psi. Im going to run some thicker oil like 15-50wt to see if the pressure comes up. Will that be ok? or is that to think?

 

There would be pieces in the filter if the particals were picked up by the pump. It goes from pump to filter first then to the rest of the engine. Heavier oil probably won't fix the low oil pressure issue for long or if at all. Oil pressure becomes low after the pump due to excesive clearances in the bearings. John

 

Remnants of your busted off brass oil pressure fitting.

 

Inconsistent.

 

Impossible. Brass is NOT magnetic.

 

Okay, I'll buy "impossible".