Valve and Piston played Paddycake
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 4
From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Valve and Piston played Paddycake
Apparently they don't play well with each other.
Question is do I need to get the head checked or can I simply replace the valve(s). No pics yet. Those'll come later today.
Question is do I need to get the head checked or can I simply replace the valve(s). No pics yet. Those'll come later today.
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,763
Likes: 4
From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
OUCH! Pistons cracked? I imagine the valve guide is shot
Heads most likely need to be went over carefully.
Heads most likely need to be went over carefully. Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 4
From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
Actually i'm about an hour away from final disassembly. Cylinder 3 got the kiss of death. I went from 210psi to 20psi. Pushrods are still straight and the studs did not pull. All that's left is a bent valve or possibly broken rings but I highly doubt the rings said cianara.
This sucks that I already messed up my Eliminators. Stupidity. I forgot to shift and bounced off the rev limiter (6600rpm) several times. Nothing happened on any other cylinder so at this point i'm only removing the single head.
Right now i'm on hold with comp cams about different valve springs. I don't want this to happen again. See what happens when you cut corners?
This sucks that I already messed up my Eliminators. Stupidity. I forgot to shift and bounced off the rev limiter (6600rpm) several times. Nothing happened on any other cylinder so at this point i'm only removing the single head.
Right now i'm on hold with comp cams about different valve springs. I don't want this to happen again. See what happens when you cut corners?
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iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,763
Likes: 4
From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
What cam was that?
I don't think revving it that high would have hit the valves against the pistons, unless something else let go to let the valves hit the pistons. Well hey, post back in 3hrs with a picture and we'll see eh?
I don't think revving it that high would have hit the valves against the pistons, unless something else let go to let the valves hit the pistons. Well hey, post back in 3hrs with a picture and we'll see eh?
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 4
From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
Cam is
XFI custom 224/230 .531/.534 112 plus i'm running 1.6RR.
Comp cams just told me that most likely I didn't overpower the spring but that I most likely over powered the lifters. He said that hydraulic rollers can only spin up to around 6500 at the most.
He suggested lifters 871-16
and springs 977-16
Supposedly i'll be able to spin to 7000-7200 with those.
I'll post back with the pictures. Hopefully I don't have to pull the engine.
XFI custom 224/230 .531/.534 112 plus i'm running 1.6RR.
Comp cams just told me that most likely I didn't overpower the spring but that I most likely over powered the lifters. He said that hydraulic rollers can only spin up to around 6500 at the most.
He suggested lifters 871-16
and springs 977-16
Supposedly i'll be able to spin to 7000-7200 with those.
I'll post back with the pictures. Hopefully I don't have to pull the engine.
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iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,763
Likes: 4
From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
That cam is out of steam by 6200 at most isn't it??
Ahh, solid rollers yea, good idea. But what cam? You can't *really* run a hydraulic roller cam with solid rollers - can you? I know with a flat tappet it's a bad idea unless you set the lash SUPER tight.
Ahh, solid rollers yea, good idea. But what cam? You can't *really* run a hydraulic roller cam with solid rollers - can you? I know with a flat tappet it's a bad idea unless you set the lash SUPER tight.
Joined: Sep 2005
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Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
The XFI cams are not designed to spin to high RPMs. They have SUPER aggressive ramps, and will DEFINITELY float the valves. They are designed to work with typical FI systems, which don't do real well over 6000 RPMs anyway.
If your combo requries that you run very far past that, which can be verified with dyno runs or time slips using different shift RPMs, then I'd suggest getting something with somewhat milder ramps. Or, going to a solid roller setup, with 1.55" springs.
If your combo requries that you run very far past that, which can be verified with dyno runs or time slips using different shift RPMs, then I'd suggest getting something with somewhat milder ramps. Or, going to a solid roller setup, with 1.55" springs.
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Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 4
From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
Well I was planning on going with solid rollers and I still may but here are the pics.
What could have possibly caused this?
BTW - There's absolutely no damage to the head or valves. I guess they never kissed.
What could have possibly caused this?
BTW - There's absolutely no damage to the head or valves. I guess they never kissed.
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,763
Likes: 4
From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
Camera phones suck, I have no idea what you're trying to show. Scratch in the bore? Head gasket is dented up? I'm not sure what i'm seeing there.
Oh, it just focused on the wiring in the background and blurred the bores there. Can you spell it out?
Oh, it just focused on the wiring in the background and blurred the bores there. Can you spell it out?
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 4
From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
It's actually a digital camera. The stupid flash kept washing out the picture.
It looks like i'm missing part of my piston. It's no longer a true circle.
In that same area where it's missing a piece are some scratches in the cylinder wall.
I'll continue removing the engine tomorrow. For now I just need to cry. By the weekend I should have some much closer pictures of the piston.
It looks like i'm missing part of my piston. It's no longer a true circle.
In that same area where it's missing a piece are some scratches in the cylinder wall.
I'll continue removing the engine tomorrow. For now I just need to cry. By the weekend I should have some much closer pictures of the piston.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 4
From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
I don't remember. I bought the size rings that my engine shop said that I needed. Kind of strange numbers too.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku
He claimed that he just honed it and that the stock sized rings would work fine. Is there a possibility that he messed up by giving me the wrong info?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku
He claimed that he just honed it and that the stock sized rings would work fine. Is there a possibility that he messed up by giving me the wrong info?
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 20,981
Likes: 11
From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
What pistons are they? If your ring gap was too small, the ring ends would butt together when they expanded, forcing them outward against the cylinder wall and putting stress on the ring lands on the pistons. Hypereutectic pistons transfer more heat to the rings than stock cast pistons do, so typically a larger ring gap than stock is needed.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 4
From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
These came with Mahle from the factory. At least that's what my machinist said and what was reported to me on this forum.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 4
From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
MELTED!!! It burned off. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Must've run lean. That crap on the cylinder is actually piston material melted to it.
Oh what fun. Forged my gluteus maximus!!!
Oh what fun. Forged my gluteus maximus!!!
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 20,981
Likes: 11
From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
More likely the broken piece was wedged in there and got smeared into the cylinder wall.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 4
From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake
I just dropped most everything off at the shop. He said they're hypereutectic pistons.
Anyway, Here are a coule of better pics of the damage. The hole goes all the way through the piston. I also did find that 2 valves tapped different pistons. I get to look into that as well.
Also, every single one of my rod bearings were loose due to detonation. I gotta say it sure was a fun drive before and during this happening. Sure didn't feel like I was missing a cylinder.
Anyway, Here are a coule of better pics of the damage. The hole goes all the way through the piston. I also did find that 2 valves tapped different pistons. I get to look into that as well.
Also, every single one of my rod bearings were loose due to detonation. I gotta say it sure was a fun drive before and during this happening. Sure didn't feel like I was missing a cylinder.
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