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Valve and Piston played Paddycake

Old Aug 13, 2007 | 08:47 AM
  #1  
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From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Valve and Piston played Paddycake

Apparently they don't play well with each other.

Question is do I need to get the head checked or can I simply replace the valve(s). No pics yet. Those'll come later today.
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 09:18 AM
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From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

OUCH! Pistons cracked? I imagine the valve guide is shot Heads most likely need to be went over carefully.
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 09:24 AM
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Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

Actually i'm about an hour away from final disassembly. Cylinder 3 got the kiss of death. I went from 210psi to 20psi. Pushrods are still straight and the studs did not pull. All that's left is a bent valve or possibly broken rings but I highly doubt the rings said cianara.

This sucks that I already messed up my Eliminators. Stupidity. I forgot to shift and bounced off the rev limiter (6600rpm) several times. Nothing happened on any other cylinder so at this point i'm only removing the single head.
Right now i'm on hold with comp cams about different valve springs. I don't want this to happen again. See what happens when you cut corners?
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 09:37 AM
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From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

What cam was that?
I don't think revving it that high would have hit the valves against the pistons, unless something else let go to let the valves hit the pistons. Well hey, post back in 3hrs with a picture and we'll see eh?
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 09:42 AM
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From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

Cam is
XFI custom 224/230 .531/.534 112 plus i'm running 1.6RR.

Comp cams just told me that most likely I didn't overpower the spring but that I most likely over powered the lifters. He said that hydraulic rollers can only spin up to around 6500 at the most.
He suggested lifters 871-16
and springs 977-16

Supposedly i'll be able to spin to 7000-7200 with those.

I'll post back with the pictures. Hopefully I don't have to pull the engine.
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 09:52 AM
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From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

That cam is out of steam by 6200 at most isn't it??
Ahh, solid rollers yea, good idea. But what cam? You can't *really* run a hydraulic roller cam with solid rollers - can you? I know with a flat tappet it's a bad idea unless you set the lash SUPER tight.
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 10:02 AM
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Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

The XFI cams are not designed to spin to high RPMs. They have SUPER aggressive ramps, and will DEFINITELY float the valves. They are designed to work with typical FI systems, which don't do real well over 6000 RPMs anyway.

If your combo requries that you run very far past that, which can be verified with dyno runs or time slips using different shift RPMs, then I'd suggest getting something with somewhat milder ramps. Or, going to a solid roller setup, with 1.55" springs.
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 02:29 PM
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Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

Well I was planning on going with solid rollers and I still may but here are the pics.
What could have possibly caused this?
BTW - There's absolutely no damage to the head or valves. I guess they never kissed.
Attached Thumbnails Valve and Piston played Paddycake-p8130010.jpg   Valve and Piston played Paddycake-p8130014.jpg   Valve and Piston played Paddycake-p8130015.jpg  
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 02:54 PM
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From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

Camera phones suck, I have no idea what you're trying to show. Scratch in the bore? Head gasket is dented up? I'm not sure what i'm seeing there.
Oh, it just focused on the wiring in the background and blurred the bores there. Can you spell it out?
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 02:58 PM
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Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

It's actually a digital camera. The stupid flash kept washing out the picture.
It looks like i'm missing part of my piston. It's no longer a true circle.
In that same area where it's missing a piece are some scratches in the cylinder wall.
I'll continue removing the engine tomorrow. For now I just need to cry. By the weekend I should have some much closer pictures of the piston.
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 03:13 PM
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From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

What was your top ring gap?
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 03:17 PM
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Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 03:20 PM
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From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

I don't remember. I bought the size rings that my engine shop said that I needed. Kind of strange numbers too.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

He claimed that he just honed it and that the stock sized rings would work fine. Is there a possibility that he messed up by giving me the wrong info?
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 03:26 PM
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From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

What pistons are they? If your ring gap was too small, the ring ends would butt together when they expanded, forcing them outward against the cylinder wall and putting stress on the ring lands on the pistons. Hypereutectic pistons transfer more heat to the rings than stock cast pistons do, so typically a larger ring gap than stock is needed.
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 03:29 PM
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From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

Factory 92 350 flattops. Forged aluminum I believe.

Mahle.
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 03:42 PM
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From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

Are they factory, or are they Mahle?
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Old Aug 13, 2007 | 03:45 PM
  #17  
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From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

These came with Mahle from the factory. At least that's what my machinist said and what was reported to me on this forum.
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Old Aug 15, 2007 | 08:01 AM
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Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

MELTED!!! It burned off. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Must've run lean. That crap on the cylinder is actually piston material melted to it.

Oh what fun. Forged my gluteus maximus!!!
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Old Aug 15, 2007 | 11:30 AM
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From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

More likely the broken piece was wedged in there and got smeared into the cylinder wall.
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Old Aug 15, 2007 | 01:25 PM
  #20  
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From: N. Illinois
Car: 92 GTA/ 00 TA
Engine: 383/350
Transmission: 700R4/T-56
Re: Valve and Piston played Paddycake

I just dropped most everything off at the shop. He said they're hypereutectic pistons.

Anyway, Here are a coule of better pics of the damage. The hole goes all the way through the piston. I also did find that 2 valves tapped different pistons. I get to look into that as well.
Also, every single one of my rod bearings were loose due to detonation. I gotta say it sure was a fun drive before and during this happening. Sure didn't feel like I was missing a cylinder.
Attached Thumbnails Valve and Piston played Paddycake-cylinder-3.jpg   Valve and Piston played Paddycake-holy-piston.jpg  
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