alright so my 92 camaro rs 305 tbi dies in the parking lot, get some gas, and get it home but its running rough. START OF A MAJOR HEADACHE

i manage to drive it to Matthews in the morning. They call and say theyll start with the fuel filter and work up to the fuel pump. They call and say they accidentally broke the fuel line when they were replacing it so i went that night to take a look and they say they accidentally broke the brake line too i end up getting a bill for a new fuel filter, fuel line and brake line all the way to the front of the car - $483.55 and problem is not fixed say now its the fuel pump - estimate $700

I said screw that and i drove it to GOSS Auto Body (service center) they took a look and said it was DEFINATELY not the fuel pump so looked into it and its DEFINATELY the Intake Manifold Gasket so they replace it and car still doesnt work so they replace the fuel pump and it works fine - $610.52

Fine so i drove it home and noticed the next day that the engine head gauge no longer worked and the heater would cause the car to run rough and the heater no longer shot out of the vents only out of the defrost vent
brought it back into goss and they fixed the thermostat and the heater issue for free - finally something good

few days later i go to pull the car into the garage and no start - try several things w/anti theft but no go so i tow it to goss and they take a look at it - say that it is DEFINATELY the starter, so they replace the starter - no go, so then they say its DEFINATELY the anti-theft so they tow it to the dealership

Bergstrom calls later and said that it is DEFINATELY not the anti-theft ad they now need a signature for $300 because they will exceed the $100 limit that we signed for(I NEVER SIGNED ANYTHING) but my dad goes to sign for the $300 - when they call back, they say it was some grounding block from the battery $5 part but bill was $322.79 (THEY SAID WE SIGNED FOR 325 not 300!!!!!!)

overall cost of repairs = $1,416.86 and heater still does not work
tell me if you think i got ripped of in any of these deals and if i would have an edge if i did want to take them to court
1. Matthews broke fuel line & brake line and i had to pay
2. Goss broke heater and caused me 300 more from dealership
3. Bergstrom overcharged according to our agreement

 

you will learn that there are no such things as mechanics anymore, just parts changers, nobody know what they are doing unless the "computer" tells them whats wrong, its sad, and thats why so many people learn to work on their own cars

sucks you got screwed like that, but i think everyone here got burned at one time or another

 

ya i know what you mean, i tried to do as much as i could by myself, but frankly im a high school student, without any close hook-ups to mechanics or anyone knowledgeable with cars
oh ya and im 1500 in debt i'm just trying to get anything i can

 

where the heck do you live! next time ask us and we will come help. heck most of these guys will build a house for beer and a dinner!

I had a 84 H.O. and had work done on it, the brakes. Cost me 200 bucks. couple days later i skid off the road b/c they crimped the front brake line and ran the lines UNDER my rear axle. I almost died and i totaled my car. THE LAST TIME I EVER HAD ANYONE TOUCH MY CAR! (minus the dealer for the VSS and tires. even then i stand right next to them so they don't give mt BS) Act like you know nothing and when they point something out you say "umm no what are you talking about" that really gets them.

 

not worth going to court over, it will just lead to more frustration, do you have a copy of the paper the dealer had you sign? if you do you may be able to get you 20 some odd dollars back, but with out it its just their word vs yours and that will get you nowhere

the furst place, you could have griped about the brake line and refused to pay for it, they were doing nothing related to the brakes right? as for the fuel line, these cars are old and the lines are rarely in good shape, did they use a factory replacement line or did they rig something together?

 

I know what u guys mean, I brought my Trans Am 305 TPI in for a because it wouldn't idle, they told me it was the intake gasket, being a 14 year old kid I said no, when I picked it up and they tell me the brake lines were rusted. the next day a brake line bursts... coincidence? I think not. also, to top it off, once I got my car back from the brake line, I was looking at the engine, and I noticed the IAC which is right on top of the engine, was cracked in half, turns out that was my problem, they made the intake manifold up. sorry, I know its not related to your problem, but we all seem to have the same experiences with "mechanics" these days...

 

86 ta - i was going to make a huge deal out of it but my dad said it wouldnt get anywhere after they broke the lines - and they said the brake lines were RIGHT next the the fuel lines, which their close, but they could have easily not broken them i think the $80 analysis at the beginning was to find out what they could break and make it look like an accident
i dont think i would go to court over any of it but i just want to know if i have an edge to sort of threaten for court

 

i dont know what to tell you about threatening them with "taking you to court", but IMO the busted brake line is total BS, back when i first bought mine the lines were all rusted to hell and i was still able to remove the brake line without damaging the others, and when i ripped the other out later, i still didnt brake any of them, and i was less than gentle

 

Yea you got screwed. But its alright. The last time i took some thing to the mechanics they charged me $50 to slide a rubber hose 3" long over a rusted fuel line and put 2 hose clamps on it.

 

Ouch. I've got a mechanic I've taken a few vehicles to over the years... mainly stuff I either can't do myself or don't want to do. Axle replacements, carb rebuild, etc etc. He specializes in mazdas but I've taken in two hondas and a 1970 datsun and he had no problem. The simple stuff I'll always do myself but it's nice being able to take your car in to someone you can trust.

 

Dealers are good for repairing cars under warranty and recalls (typically safety or emissions-related), and parts to about 7 years old. After that, it's hit & miss.

The newest of our cars are 16 years old now (mine are 26). That's over twice as old as dealers deal with for parts, let alone repairs. They don't train or get updates for our cars. Any "special" tools have been put away or disposed of. If a mechanic knows about our cars, it's residual, not current.

Independent shops aren't much better. They never had the training or special equipment the dealers got. Your best hope is they worked for a dealer in the past and worked on our cars. They make their living off of the soccer mom population that doesn't even blink while writing out a $1000 check for a brake job and what they found during their "free" inspection. Autozone advertises free trouble code readings - guess what, at least in our area, they only do OBDII.

What we all need to face is that our cars have become hobby items. Either learn to fix it yourself, or you're in for big repair bills - pocket change for Jay Leno, 2nd mortgage for the rest of us. The days of "Oops, I broke that while getting to what you paid me to fix - no charge" are long over. I'm sure I paid for that double flare tool the Midas shop went to get when they replaced a brake line I didn't have time to get to and asked them to fix while they replaced the exhaust on my daughter's Lumina the day before she left for college.

It's reality - live in it or create your own. Good luck with the latter.

 

I dunno about the rest of it but if your lines look anything like mine, accidents happen

i hate metal

my automotive toolset consists of a big hammer and a saw

 

i feel like you didn't get treated right. bouncing from 1 shop to another probably didn't help matters, but i understand why you would do it.
im not quite sure how they broke the brake line changing the fuel filter unless the line was just in that bad of shape.
i can see how the how the fuel line got messed up. over time, sometimes the fittings seize to the lines & no amount of penetrating oil, tapping, wiggling or twisting will free them up. there may also have been damage caused by previous attempts at replacing the filter. using the wrong type of wrench, or worse yet, vise-grips can also damage the fittings.

the price of everything has gone through the roof, work i used to do for $75.00 when a thirdgen could be bought new is now $200.00. just like the condenser i bought 2 months ago, almost $200.00 my cost for it, 6 years ago i paid about $80.00 for the very same part, both A/C Delco.

im not a fan of Autozone & their "free" trouble code check. they pull the codes & sell the guy a part, the guy comes to us for installation. when it doesn't fix the problem, we're the bad guys & its our fault, its never Autozones' fault. i can't even guess how many O2 sensors i have replaced at the customer's request because Autozone said thats what the problem is, & too many times its something else, sometimes nothing more than a fuse the customer swapped because his new self installed radio didn't work.
there is more to it than just pulling the codes. many times the codes are nothing more than a sign saying there is a problem here somewhere. its always been that way.

 

57 summed it up best. see this a lot at my work (i work at a chevrolet dealer) and sometimes brake lines corrode together, or fuel lines, etc. i was performing a safety inspection on an early 90's lumina when i noticed a leaking brake line. looked at it closer only to see the "leaking" new line was perfectly fine, but the old rusty line next to it was leaking and running over to the new line.

your best bet? get estimates for a complete repair (all lines, etc.) because no matter how careful you are with rusty lines, you stand a very good chance of breaking them off. rust just doesn't like to move.

 

Not to get off topic, but I have never understood why brake and fuel lines aren't made out of stainless steel from the factory. When they are building the cars new how much more money would it really cost to use better quality lines? Surely less than $100.

 

cars are made cheap so the company can get the maximum profit. ss would be too much of a cut into their pockets.

and my autozone did my code, they guy laid on his back and used some key to get the SES the flash, then he looked t up.

And i'm very lucky i guess. My GM dealer loves my car! The guy that worked on it used to have one i think b/c he knew way more than me. Buy dealers don't repair, they replace. They are the "brave new world" of mechanics. But i never had a complaint (except in price but it was done fast and right).

 

My mechanic is very old school. He charges lower rates then anybody around and would never make me pay for anything he broke. Still, I only bring my car to him when I am doing something that requires a lift to be done safely and correctly.

 

I had worked for the better part of 20 years as an ASE Certified Master Tech at GM dealerships and several aftermarket shops. And this is the exact reason I quit busting knuckles for a living. There are too many I call kids who think they are going to get rich turning wrenches and do unneccessary work just to get a bigger paycheck. I have watched a mechanic at a place I worked at sell a new engine, fuel pump and other goodies on a Chevy full size van to the tune of almost $6K, and all it really needed was the fuel pump.

The best advice I can give ANYONE when dealing with any mechanic is do NOT give them any idea you don't know your way around a car, if they think you don't know anything about it they will give you a line of a mile long. Before you say fix it research the problem and see if it a real possible repair or unecessary. Just like a major medical problem get more than on opinion. My wife and kids prove that everytime someone works on their car, they tell whoever it is that they will ask me and mention my certification and length of time I worked on cars, then the mechanics story changes to something costing a lot less $$$. Best bet if find an old timer who has been around for 20 or 30 years, he will be less likely to shove you the high hard one.

 

Yeah I'll vouch for 57 on the whole dealer thing, as I am a gm dealer tech and have seen several third gens and c4's come into my work it's kinda funny. The dealer I work at is only 10 years old, so they never had manuals or special tools related to these cars to begin with. GM Dealerworld (gm's online service manuals etc) only goes back to 97 or so... I'm normally the guy that gets the older cars because nobody else wants to take the time to figure out whats wrong with them, plus our dealership doesn't even own a tech 1 (gm obd1 tool) so when it comes to anything involving a check engine light on one of these cars I'm normally the guy they givem to and I use a paperclip to pull codes.. Kinda of sad really.. but they always get fixed right and I make sure they don't get overcharged for labor and refuse to do any "BG Flushes" of any sort on them.. still I will upsell nessicary things such as front end work if the parts are actually worn out and such which they normally are, and for 7 tenths I'll even tighten up a loose tilt steering column no one else I work with knows how to do for some reason..

 

If they broke something while working on you car, that should be on them. I am a mechanic by trade. Mechanics make mistakes, everyone does. If what you say is ture then yes you could take these places to court and likely could win. Everyone has a bias against the automotive repair industry because most people have had to deal with a crooked mechanic at some point. That includes the judge. We generally try to avoid going to court because we will lose. At my delaership it the customer complains hard enough they can almost get anything they want, and that is a damn shame. I work at a Porsche dealership so I deal with $100k cars daily, and the customers that go along with them.

Another thing is you CAN be undercharged for work. Don't take your car to the cheapest place in town, you will likely get what you pay for. It sounds like these guys left many stones unturned and missed some pretty simple stuff.

 

how'd you get a pic of my brake lines?

 

Bast***ds....

 

I guess now would be a good time to start learning on how to fix your own stuff.

 

i got burnt for like $500 last summer in "diagnostic charges" and my car came out of the shop no better than when i put it in there... sucks, thats why i do ALL my own work now - but hey, that's why i've got trusty thirdgen.org for

 

Wow, that must have been lame. What ended up being wrong?

 

What a load of BS! Personally I find that offensive. There are lots of well trained techs who know what we are doing. You got burned by a bolt jockey. That doesnt mean there are not good mechanics in the world.

As for the computer "telling" them what to do, thats even funnier. A scan tool does not tell anyone what to do. It allows you to view diagnostic codes, which can be damn vague, or a data stream which requires training and inteligence to evaluate.

 

the lead tech at the firestone where I used to work got paid good. He always got the best jobs, and could diagnose pretty good. I always figured it was because of his tech school, and ASE hi-pro certifications.

When I first drove my firebird to work after buying it, I was surprised to find that he had had 3 different f-body's in the past. 2 third gens and a 4th gen. All pretty quick supposedly. Moral of the story: find a tech that drives an f-body that runs good times

Oh, btw now he drives one of those new subaru - el camino type things. I asked why and he said his job has made him HATE working on cars. And the subaru never breaks.

 

If that's the case, then I'm getting a Subaru - El Camino type thing!

 

/Agree 100%

But also, as me and u both know * Nissan tech*

Theres an equal amount of eggheads out there.. even in dealerships

 

you are a nissan tech?? cool. I have an uncle who is a nissan master tech. He likes em. Myself I work for toyota. Not a toyota master tech yet, but soon. I am however an ASE master tech. I will agree. I work with guys that have no clue. Lots of "put an ECM in it" guys running around. Makes the rest of us look dumb.

 

Ive always been into cars, but hearing about everyone problems with mechanics, that is the true reason I decided to learn how to work on my own car, I dont trust many people to do work on my car, only 3 people have worked on my car since Ive owned it, 1. Me 2. Stepdad 3. Trustworthy shop down the road.

 

I didnt mean to be offensive to you guys, but i see this waaay too often. Im sure there are people out there who know what they are doing. But people just dont seem to care anymore. Its all about how much money you can get out of some poor uninformed customer.
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my point. I just love it when you drop off a older car to the dealer or a shop to get something looked and they seem lost cause there is no ecm.

 

Yeah I'm on my senior year of a tech high school, on a co-op program at a Nissan dealership. ( going to be working on ASE'S soon)

The reason we have idiots in the trade is mainly do to the fact that we don't need a license such as electricians need, sure we have ASE, but Car manufacturers don't recognize them..., In general.. this is why some idiot from the street with a toolbox can come into a dealer and rob the other techs of good money who actually have certifications. Hopefully this wont last for to much longer, as the car world has significantly changed into electronic/computer diagnostics in the past few years and the uneducated eggheads wont be able to survive in that kind of environment.

I wish i could work on Gm, i have much more experience with them. But nissans are a good thing to work on.. alot of maint. As for now im at this dealership till the end of school.. then college... Im not quite sure about yet. Id love to become a Gm Powertrain tech/engineer of some sort.

Thank god im not on flat rate yet though, lol dont have the tools for it yet

 

Good point everyone. And no offense on the mechanics. there is some shady ones and some good ones. If you know how to read and is initiative then you can work on you're car. Trial and error as i call it. I did my first repairs on my first vehicle by removing the transmission. TOOK ME 6HRS but following what the book told me what to do it worked fine and the transmission i put in was working. NOt ****ed up. now i can put a transmission in a REAR WHEEL vehicle in about 3 hrs 4hrs tops if i have problems like rust. My next project since i have the manual on 700R4 rebuild book is to do my own transmission rebuild again i read the book like a bible and do it. Wish me luck. b/c once i get that then i will know how to do the whole vehicle. Rebuilt my first engine with my dad at 16 so guys pick up those wrenches and don't worry you get dirty at least u know if it i****s up you have urself to blame nobody else. Its not hard work if you can read and turn a wrench anybody can do the job. NOT SAYING ITS EASY LOL BC IF anybody that is a mechanic that worked on a chevy blazer 2.8L that had to put a starter in boy thats a ****ing challenge took me 3hrs. So keep ur chins up. Pay for the part and put it in the vehicle. Hint of suggestion buy a manual for the vehicle ur working on. B/c it helps in a long run even those simple lil fixes. Happy new year and hope every one learns. oh BTW DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO CHANGE A RADIATOR IN A 69 VOLKSWAGEN BUG...... ANY MECHANICS WANT TO HELP ME ON THIS.

 

 

Yeah, I've done three or four, but it can get expensive.
There's break lines in the way, fuel line, piston return springs.....

 

about taking them to court. Judges are all to familiar with such cases in small claims. In most cases where there is proper documentation, and one can show a paper trail of mishaps and requotes, Judges tend to be sympathetic with the consumer. Most cases such as what yours sounds like tend to be no contest and judgements are in the consumer's favor. Just make sure you have all your ducks in a row. Taking a shop to court may also force the them to try to settle with the consumer out of court.

 

It appears that America is all about taking others to court. It sucks that it has to be this way, but go for it. Who knows, you could come out with some extra money in your pocket.

A lot of people are giving you a hard time for taking your car to a shop to get repairs instead of doing them yourself. I don't think it was that big of a deal, especially since you didn't know exactly what the problem was.

It does sound to me like they jerked you around a lot, so you can tell them.... "I'll see you in court, buddy!"

Good luck.