Hello,
I just replaced the head gaskets on my 88 GTA 5.7L TPI. Got it back together and had trouble setting timing. Turned out I hadn't disconnected the tan/black striped wire before setting. Got that all taken car of (special thanx to Third Gen.org). Car runs beautiful.

Took for a drive last night with no problems. Drove maybe 10 - 15 miles. Was VERY easy on car with no hard driving (no over revving, burn outs, anything). Ran great! Parked in garage and went inside.

I go out this morning and start it up. It starts up, runs great for 10 or so seconds, the dies instantly. Start back up and runs perfect for 5 or so seconds, then seems to like lose all spark instantly or fuel loss, then just cuts out and almost dies. On like the last engine revolution before dieing, it kicks back in, runs great for a half second, then dies. Each time I go to restart car, it gets harder to start. After four or five times of this, engine will just crank over and nothing. No popping, sputtering, nothing.

After 10 minutes, I try again. Everything I just explained above, happens again. Any ideas?

I should mention, last night after coming in from garage, I got on internet and read about how cutting the screen out of the Mass Airflow Sensor would add a couple cheap ponies. So, before I tried to start this morning, I did that.

Also, I had these six bolts that were chrome spikes on top (originally bought for the windshield for my Yamaha R1). They happened to be the same size as the plate that sits atop the throttle body. Plate says "Tuned Port Injection". I replaced the factory bolts with my spiked tipped ones just for some added "bling" under hood. I used a small amount of Permatex 1B gasket sealer when reinstalling plate. I'm sure I got a good seal. But maybe not.

Anyway, these are the only things I did to car this morning (besides buying and installing a brand new battery) before trying to start. Don't see how I can go from running perfect to not running at all in one night. Makes me think it was something I did. Anybody with any ideas, PLEASE let me know. Thank you...

 

have you checked the timing? a lot of the time a timing chain will jump when you turn engine off.as for descreening the maf i dont know ,i have speed density.hope this helps,jimmy

 

Timing is fine. If it were timing, car should run like crap from get go. Car will start and run awesome, but for only 5 - 10 seconds. I got car to rev once to 2000 or 2500 rpm's but still only ran for a few seconds. Holding pedal down steady with engine rpm's at 2000, and it dies like I turned the key off. As it nears the last engine revolution before completely stalling, it kicks back in, runs great for 1 -2 seconds, then cuts again and dies.

Someone's gotta know...

 

sorry ,man thought you meant it wouldnt start at all ,maybe check ign. module in dist.also ive read where some of these guys unhook maf to see if it runs right ,if it does its the maf,maybe stopped up fuel filter ,or diaphram in fuel pressure regulator.just ideas of stuff id check if it were mine ,jimmy

 

even if you whole post would have only said the part i quoted i would say "well thats your problem"

since thats the only thing that you did from the time it ran fine, till the time it ran bad, "well thats your problem" should have read a little bit further into de-screening the MAF. it only creates less turbulence in the intake, and after sometime it WILL fail, you however were one of the unlucky ones who's failed instantly. sorry to say it, but that is one $300 mistake you wont make again. the screen is there for a reason, you wouldn't run your engine without an air filter would you?

oh and dont forget to re-torque the heads after its been warmed up, i didnt see you mention doing that in your post.

 

$300 bucks !!! You have got to be kidding me!!! 300 for that little thing?!!! Is there a way to somehow test the MAF to make sure its bad? (not that i'm second guessing your great wisdom) If it were a $10 or $20 dollar part, I'd buy without sweat. But $300 is almost half my weekly paycheck. Would just want to somehow make sure if possible.

Oh, I was going to take valve covers off and check valve train for loose rockers. I've seen those rattle off before. Good thing you mentioned re torquing the heads. Sucks though, damn headers are a pain in the butt to get off/on... Thanks, I will post results after I install new MAF.

 

Thats cool. I am going to keep hold of your post though. Since it ran fine until I screwed with MAF, I am going to start there. Might do fuel filter even though it may/may not be the problem. I'm sure it wont hurt. As for the other things you mentioned. I will try them as needed. Thanks for your ideas and will post my results after trying.

 

Boy, you aint kidding about a MAF costing 300 bucks. One question to anybody. NAPA sells two different MAF sensors. New and Remfd. New is $280. Remfd is $170 with a $70 dollar core. Is the remfd as good as new? Not that I'm a cheap a$$, but a hundred bucks is a hundred bucks. For any info, thanx...

Well forget the core, since I altered mine by cutting out the screen, I assume they probably wont take it now.

 

Before you buy a new $300 MAF you may not need why don't you make sure that's the problem. As a temporary diagnostic test unplug it and start the engine. The check engine light will come on but it should stay running reasonably well. If so, then yes, your MAF is bad and you need a new one. If not, your problem is elsewhere.

 

+1

Check it before you blow all that cash on a new one.

 

+2

i also agree with checking it, but im fairly sure that its gonna need replacing, i dont remember how to check it, but the haynes manual tells you how to do it, all you need is a voltmeter. you can also check it by the method Damon posted about.

 

Nope. Its not the MAF. Unplugged it and did exact same thing. This time it started right up, ran for roughly 30 seconds. Idling like brand new. About the time I started thanking God, Bam!, instant dead. As if it were INSTANTLY losing all spark or fuel. Couldn't get running after that. Seems to want to start back up, but as soon as it fires, dead. Every time I quick cranking engine, I can hear the fuel pump running for few seconds then stops.

After thinking about how I screwed with MAF, I thought it had to be it. So bought a $180 reman from NAPA today. When I put it on and started it ran great for 30 seconds. I'd thought for sure my problem was fixed. Well, I just tried unplugging new MAF and same results. Oh well, at least I know for sure that its not that sensor causing this.

What should I buy, I mean, try next!...lol I don't get it... Anybody?

 

Well, i suppose we could start by figuring out what changes when it dies... Is it sparking?

 

Will the fuel pump prime then not come back on? If it doesnt, then look to your oilpressure sending unit. If that goes bad the fuel pump primes enuff for the car to start but not run long.

 

Well, I just went out and pulled #1 and #3 spark plugs. Laid them on top of engine and turned key. It started for few seconds, long enough for me to see great spark. Loud as heck though. So, I put plugs back in, plug MAF sensor back in, and hit key. Starts up instantly, Runs perfect for maybe 15 - 20 seconds, then instant death. After that, it goes back to wanting to start, but never does. I didn't pull all plugs but could clearly see spark as it was stalling. Getting frustrated..lol!! !!!! !!!!!!!!!!
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I can hear it buzzing while it was running and then for roughly 3 or so seconds after it dies.

 

Anybody? Anything? I'm begging...lol

I don't have a fuel pressure tester. Is there a way to test pressure without one? Also, when installing the new battery, the morning all this started, I had noticed that the small wire from the positive battery cable, going to back of alternator, was broke before and spliced together. I recut wire, put new butt connector on and taped up with electrical tape. I highly doubt it could be this, but could it?

 

check all your vaccum lines yet?

 

L98

Since you are begging lets see if I can help you.

Once it dies and you try to re-start do you see good spark (if you pull a spark plug wire)?

To eliminate one unknown you need to check your fuel pressure. It is also possible that you may have a bad fuel pump relay. Check Socket and pins for melted plastic and discoloration.

//RF

 

Yes, getting good spark after it dies. When I pulled #1 and #3 plugs and started last night, I seen good spark all the way to dead. Then started again and could see while cranking. When I put plugs back in and started, it ran like brand new (for 15 seconds). To loneroad, it shouldn't run perfect like that if it were a vacuum line, plus, I have triple checked all them. RF, Is there a way to check fuel pressure without a tester? Also, could you steer me in the direction of the fuel pump relay. Will check manual but internet is way easier. Please keep ideas coming. Thanks guys...

 

L98

Since you have a TPI in your bird there is a fuel pressure test port. You can find fuel pressure gauge connection valve on the rear right side of fuel rail next to regulator. Wrap a shop rag around the connector, while installing the pressure gauge to absorb any gas leakage. When you turn the ignition key on, and the system pressures up, see that you have 41-48 psi in the system. You may have to cycle the key more than once to obtain maximum pressure or to bypass Fuel Pump relay with a test jumper. A slight drop of a couple of pounds over a minute is considered normal. Start the engine and note pressure, it will be 3-10 lbs. lower with engine running. If it is not, you'll have to use your hand vacuum pump and attach it to the fuel pressure regulator vacuum line. Apply around 10" of vacuum, the pressure should drop by 3-10 lbs. If it does not, you'll have to replace the regulator diaphragm.

If you are having a low pressure problem check for restricted fuel lines, clogged fuel filter or the fuel pump "sock". If the fuel pressure checks out at this point, block or pinch off the fuel return line, and apply 12V to the fuel pump test connector and note pressure. If it goes above 45 psi, replace fuel regulator. If it below 40 psi, check for a faulty in tank pump coupling hose, and or tired fuel pump.

//RF

 

RF

I just called AutoZone and they sell a fuel pressure tester for 40 bucks. Its not a tool they will rent. I will however have to wait till Friday to get. After taking the hit on the MAF, I cannot afford tester at this moment. Is there anything I can be checking in the meantime? I mean, if fuel pressure would check out fine, what would you suggest checking next. I will pick up tester Friday and check when I get home after work.

Tools are something I have no problem buying. Its one of those things, better to have and not need than need and not have. Might pick up a vacuum tester while I'm at it. Anyway, ANYBODY have some advise, please let me know. Thanx...

 

try replacing your MAF burnoff relay/feul pump relay.

 

MAF Burn off is only functional once engine is shutoff, however checking FP relay is worth while. It is on firewall next to brake booster if my memory services me right. Check socket contacts for discoloration.

//RF

 

RF,

I will check both MAF burn off/FP relays. I had started another post when I found I was getting a CODE 33 every time car would run perfect, then die. Getting fuel pressure tester, and fuel filter Friday. Will post findings. Any thoughts on why I keep getting that code 33? Man, I wish I would of NEVER touched MAF in the first place!!! Post below isn't very long. Please read through. Thnx...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...again-new.html