Ok so i got an 880 block with the 193 swirl heads on it. Im not real turned on to buying heads yet, but is there a cam that will help make some performance out of this engine? like what lift/duration would be worth putting in it so i dont have to buy heads to make any power out of this thing? Im about to convert it to carb so id like to get a cam in there while im doing it

 

Hmm, sounds like a REALLY familiar question... Lets see if it's been asked before...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...0-350-lt1.html

What more do you want to know? Want me to rattle off a list of 10 different camshafts that'll work for you, in descending order of functionality?

 

i thought that reply was assuming i had vortec heads

 

No the cam will not change the total equation. At best, it will accomplish nothing; but more likely, it will be a net LOSS in speed.

Think about it. You have this giant stupid lump thing in your intake ports, that's designed to promote various low-RPM functionality at the expense of higher-RPM power. The reason those heads kill high-RPM power, is because the turbulence induced by the "ramp" limits the max flow through the port. THE VALVE ISN'T THE RESTRICTION: the ramp is. Meaning, it doesn't matter how far you open the valve, you aren't affecting the total flow by doing so. Small flow = it takes a long time for a whole cylinder's worth of stuff to get past. Long time to fill = they're not going to work at high RPMs. Period.

You're talking about putting a cam in it. I'll assume for the moment that you mean a BIGGER one than whatever stockish one might be in there now. In that case, you're going to kill off whatever benefits the swirlies might be giving you at low RPMs, but the swirlies will kill off whatever benefit a bigger cam might give you at high RPMs.

The worst of both worlds. No bottom end because of the cam, no top end because of the heads.

Mis-matched parts don't "compensate" for each other. Rather, each one brings its FULL disadvantage along with it.

Save your pennies toward a set of heads. Anything else for you at this point, is just a detour; a left-hand turn down a dirt road and into the weeds. Exercise some discipline, resist the temptation to let whatever coins you might have slip through your fingers by wasting them on something that accomplishes nothing, and work towards the actual goal.

 

ok makes sense, thanks

 

yes, it was if you had Vortec heads. Since you'll be using 193 heads, I agree - leave it be for now. If you really want to keep the 2.73 gears, and this will be a low RPM highway cruiser type of car (which would make me wonder why you'd use a Camaro for that...), then you can upgrade to a very mild cam, something like an LT1 take-out or something. I would hope it'd be more aggressive than whatever is stock in an 880 Vortec truck block.

 

I'm sorry. Please forgive me... I'll try not to let it happen again.

 

Will a set of lt4 heads work? or what non vortec head is desireable?

 

What are LT4 heads?? I thought LT4s used normal LT1 heads (whatever casting number that is) but with a bigger cam.

 

Why LT4 ones?

 

Sorry this is my first v8 I normally work on imports. I just want a good non vortec head that I can make power with a cam.

 

You're kind of going around in circles with this.

"LT4" is worse of a buzzword than "Vortec". I can 100% GUARANTEE that if you ACTUALLY find any ACTUAL LT4 heads, they will cost you more than aftermarket. And in the process of looking for them, every shyster on the continent will come out of the woodwork trying to sell you "early LT4", "Impala LT4", "police LT4", "same as LT4", "from a Vette I don't know what kind but it was a Vette so these must be as good as LT4", "super-rare LT3", etc. etc. etc. You just have NO IDEA what kind of floodgates you will be opening by uttering that RPO code.

Why "non Vortec"? They're cheap, effective, and plentiful. What's wrong with them?

Why "with a cam"? That's pretty much the only way. How else would an engine make power?

Take a step back. Take a deep breath. Clear your mind of buzzwords. Focus. Now:

What's your BUDGET? What's your GOAL? Where are you REALLY trying to go with all this?

The first thing you need to do, no matter what you want (if it's different from what you've got now), is THROW THOSE 193 HEADS IN THE TRASH and get other ones.

Choose heads. Then choose a cam that matches what the heads and the rest of the motor need and want. Heads come first.

 

I don't want a drag car I want a street car that sees the track a few times. I'm just trying to learn v8's with this car. So throwing heads and a cam seems like a good way to learn, I've built/swapped a couple of imports so I know my way around a car enough to do this on my own. I work at a parts store and everyone that comes in is looking for 350 chevy knowledge that I do not have a lot of. So I am wanting to learn so I will have something to share with the customers I deal with.

 

How much do you want to spend? Do you have some home tools to work with? ie. a die grinder to do port work?

 

So there's really 2 goals then. Let's separate them.

Goal 1: your own car

Goal 2: Chevy V8 education

Eh??

Goal 2: You found this site, so that's a great first step on that. There are others as well with good solid tech content, as opposed to monkey-spank; chevytalk.org, chevelles.com, nastyZ28.com, a few others. Read, ask simple questions one at a time (as opposed to asking "build my whole car for me over the Internet" like some people try to do), hang out at tracks with the people THAT WIN and the shops that build their motors and chassis, and absorb what you see and hear.

Let's go back to goal 1.

About the cheepest, easiest, most no-brainer way to go fast, is Vortec heads, a Comp XE series cam (one of the more moderate ones, for reasons I will detail shortly), an Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold, a Holley 700 or 750 4-barrel, a set of headers, a 2500-2800 RPM torque converter, and 3.73 gears. With that combo right there, you can BLOW AWAY cars that people have put several times as much money into, FOR CHEEEEEEEEEEEP. It's the cheepest way to go fast that I know of.

Vortec heads are GOOD. What they are, is GM raised the intake runners about ¼" compared to prior ones, which gives them a MUCH straighter shot for the air/fuel mixture on its way into the cylinder. They work GREAT. They are PLENTIFUL. Since they are plentiful, they are CHEEEP. However, they have certain limits; namely, the valve guides are STUPID HUGE, which limits the valve springs (which you ABSOLUTELY MUST use the right ones that the cam mfr calls for with any cam), and the lift itself because the bottom of the retainers will hit the top of the guides and bend things if you try to exceed the available space. In stock form, you're flirting with disaster if you try to run a cam with more than about .465" of lift at the valve. However, by doing nothing other than using .050" offset keepers (move the retainer up the valve .050") and adding shim under the springs to keep the proper spring installed height, you can overcome that limit somewhat, enough at least to use the hot street cams like the XEs. With that in mind, the Comp XE268, or the Lunati Voodoo that's close to that but smaller, are GREAT choices. The trick to effectively using them is to work WITHIN their limitations as much as possible, rather than spending money on overcoming them; because by the time you have "overcome" their limits, you will be knocking on the door of aftermarket money, ANYWAY. Not the path to wisdom.

Is there a reason you said "non Vortec"?

 

lol because the intake manifold i have is not a vortec one. and im trying to do this as cheap as i can (not that i cant make exceptions) i got the intake as a early christmas gift from my parents, so i figured hey why not use that

 

The intake is one of the cheeepest parts of the whole package.

Each intake is different, meant for different things. It's not like imports where one size fits all.

You don't build an effective engine by picking the cheeeepest part first, and then sacrificing the more expensive ones so you don't have to replace the cheeep one. You do it the other way.

Whatever intake it is, sell it to someone who needs THAT PARTICULAR ONE, and buy the one YOU need.

Or, ask your rents if they can trade it in on a different one; even if you have to toss in a couple of coins along with it.

 

well i work at o'reilly auto parts and i got the intake there for 100$, and i can get any intake or heads for a reasonable price, and in good condition, i can take the part back, and i probably will do that.

so your saying a set of factory vortec heads, with a performer rpm intake and a holley 700-750? And with a XE comp cam... sounds simple enough

 

easy combination for hot street machine

you said you had a zz4 roller cam in the other thread but are you sure?

if it is a roller block, just get a 95-97 take out LT1 cam for 25 bucks. abit bigger cam would be awesome but stock vortec heads cant handle lift above like .470 ish. but you can SHIM the springs up with .050 offset valve locks and .050" of shims under the springs. then you can safely run a .500 lift cam such as the XE218/224 cam or so

vortec iron heads with proper springs, any stock replacement 1.25 inch spring will work.

get a vortec performer rpm intake manifold and a 650-750 double pumper.

if your compression is upwards of 9.5-9.8 to 1, then you should be set for 350 crank hp atleast with full exhaust.

same setup in my buddies 83 full sized truck went 13.5's at 99-100mph. it was a heavy machine, just imagine what it do in a street camaro

 

i am not going to build the heads. .470ish is fine for me.. what is the lift of a lt1 cam?

can i convert to flat tappet cam if i use new lifters? thats cheaper it seems. or am i stuck with using a roller cam?


also what casting number am i looking for on a set of vortec heads

 

Yes if you have a roller cam now you can convert to flat tappet.

Or, you can go to the junkyard and get all the roller stuff for fairly cheep, if you want to go the other way.

A roller cam IS WORTH the extra couple of pennies. Don't think you're going to "save" any money. It's some of the cheeepest HP you can buy, right behind cubic inches.

Given that somebody has already had his putz-pullers in the motor (as proven beyond doubt by the mismatched head castings that never came on that block casting), there's no telling what you'll find. I'd STRONGLY recommend looking at it before buying any valve train parts, so you can get it right the first time. Go with a roller if that's what setup you've got now.

A stock LT1 cam is better than some other stock cams, but NOWHERE NEAR as good as an aftermarket one. Not really the way to go.

A better "stock" cam is the ZZ4 cam. You can buy brand-new "take-out" ones on eBay all day long for about $125. OK cam, nothing really "super", but for the price, it's hard to get a roller cam for any less. If of course your motor turns out to have the roller stuff still in it. That'd be the way to go if that's what you've got. If you don't have the roller apparatus still there, which I'd almost put odds that you don't, get the XE268.

Like I told you in your other thread, Vortec heads are casting # 062 or 906. There are no others. Don't be misled: you'll hear "early Vortec", "Vortec prototypes", "as good as Vortec", "Vortec-like", and my all-time-fave way to slide that buzzword in there sideways without actually lying, "pre-Vortec" (which of course means, in English, "all heads before 1996" and "NOT Vortec"). Follow the instructions in my reply to your other thread to get the best deal from your local buzzard.