Here's the short story. I failed the sniffer test.. baddly. I can get a waiver if I spend >$680 on fixing "emmsions related equipment." Could i pay a shop for a new exhaust and then get the waiver? or would that not be considered good enough. If I did it this way I would probably go to a speed shop where I could get good headers and exhaust. thoughts?

 

would help if people knew where you are at ???

 

It's gotta be money spent for emissions parts afaik.

Honestly here's your only options from my point of view unless you really WANT to spend all that money which probably won't get you a waiver.

a) Find a way to make it pass legally
b) Find people who can make it pass "legally"

I'm not reccomending option B but it's out there and alot of people do it. I don't frown apon it but I don't know the rules here very well so I'm gonna say I don't reccomend it. lol

 

From what I've seen & heard, the repairs have to be done by a certified repair shop in order to count toward the waiver. The repairs have to reduce the observed emissions.

Not many shops would be willing to risk their certification and possible fines so somebody can have a louder exhaust.

Any shop that would do work that is not emissions related and then say it is would be dishonest.

Do you want to trust you car and give your money to a dishonest shop?

 

I live in virginia.

I read all the fine print on the waiver and it says no where that it needs to reduce the emissions.

Also exhaust is a 'big' part of the emissions process of a car so I'm sure the DMV sees people getting new exhausts on their cars all the time. Right now I have no cat so just putting one of those on is bound to help my cause anyway.

 

Uuum... so they gave you a set amount you had to spend to fix a problem even though you don't have to actually fix the problem? This makes no sense.

Ok so reading through it more I think I get what you're saying. Couldn't someone just make you a receipt for "$700" spent on a "smog pump and tune up", and such?

 

When was the last time you had a tune up? What emission equipment has been stripped off the car, that used to be there? What engine/induction system do you have? What are you currently running for exhaust? What year is your car? Was it NOX emissions that were getting you?

Some state will assign a dollar value, some percentage of the States perceived value of the car, that they decide you dont have to spend more than that before they will grant a waiver. After all, there is very little point in spending 1500 dollars to get a car to pass emissions, when the car is only worth 500...... Hence, their reasoning for the dollar value. Other states may be different, either easier (no emissions testing at all where I live), or, they may be quite **** about it, and say things like "No pass, No drive." Regardless of the age/value of the car.

 

Headers and exhaust aren't "emissions" parts. The cat, yes; the rest, no. So, I SERIOUSLY doubt that you would get very far that way. You'd just have a new exhaust on your still-useless driveway ornament.

What would be the problem with just fixing the car?

 

I don't know but am I the only person who doesn't just blatantly try to make their car illegal?

 

No... speaking strictly for myself....

But too many people seem to think for some reason that it's inherently "hard" to make a car pass. I don't completely understand that, as I've been able to get some VERY unlikely things to sail right through.

If one approaches one's goals with the mental attitude that they're going to find out what it takes and just get it done, it's AMAZING how effective one can be at .... getting things done. If one approaches it with the attitude that they're going to do as little as possible and try to squeeek by, then .... expect a struggle. Passing emissions inspiction is just like LIFE in general that way. Imagine that.

 

emmisions components include air tubes mainfolds smog pump EGR cat
even the ypipe is part of the emmissions
everything from the cat to where it bolts on to the heads is part of emssions

depending how it failed would tell you what to fix best bet is get a high flow converter and check egr function those are the main parts to pass the sniffer test you can even check your gas cap

most preformance hi flow cats sell for 60-70 bucks you pass emmisions and lose a max of 2-4 hp nothing thats gonna change driveing feel and you have a clean burning car
Egr can also cause emmisions failer
smog pump not working/missing normaly only functions at startup to heat the cat up faster
a cat thats made for non airtube dosnt need the airpump but the way emmisions laws work its "not legal" to do this

 

I would like to "just fix the car" but it does have over 200k on it. I don't have the money for a new engine right now which is my goal in the next six months. Instead of pouring half the money into fixing an engine that needs obvious rebuilding I would rather run the car on a limp for a little while and get a fresh engine sooner rather than later. I called a shop today and he said that he didn't think that the DEQ would allow the exhaust system being replaced as part of the waiver. This is a bummer.

I have a high flow cat which I will have them install and then get a tune up which might fix the problem. If this is the case I would be jumping for joy! I want the car to run well but I don't think it's feesable without equal or lesser money than just a plain new engine. So my logic is as follows, "cut your losses." Meaning don't spend all the money that is needed to fix this one when you can do it right with a new engine for cheaper.

As you can see I am dedicated to making it run correctly. However I don't want to spend all of my money getting the engine to barely pass whereas I could get a brand new engine for the same price a little father down the road.

BTW:
car info:
1988 5.7 TPI 350CID Camaro I have the stock exhaust with the exception of no cat. My NoX: 1961/632 = Has/allowed

Thanks for all the help guys. Please keep the idea's flowing I am dedicated to this car.

 

Put on a high flow cat. Will certainly help, if not get you into passing territory, AND will work with the new motor as well.

 

The cat is a good idea.

The problem with the whole "new engine" idea, is that whatever is keeping it from passing emissions NOW, is about 99.999% certain to still be there when you put a "new engine" in it; because the "engine" proper, the parts you replace when you put in a "new" one like the block and the pistons and such as that, AREN'T generally responsible for emissions problems in the first place. In fact, the cams people put in "new" engines, often make the potential problems WORSE. In other words, if it fails now, odds are VERY long in favor of it continuing to fail with a "new engine".

Think about it.... consider a "tune-up". That would be, a rotor, dist cap, plugs, wires, O2 sensor maybe, fuel filter, clean the TB, things like that. Right? Well, if you DIDN'T do those services as part of your "new engine", how do you suppose it would run? If those things are keeping your "old" engine from passing now, what effect do you suppose they'll have on your "new engine"? And meanwhile, if you renew them now, you can just as easily keep them when you get your "new engine" and continue to use them. Eh?

Which means, if you spend all your money on a "new engine" without taking care of whatever the REAL malfunction ACTUALLY is, then you will simply have an even more expensive but still-useless driveway ornament.

Fix the car... it's the cheapest way out, in the long (and even the not-so-long) run. Who knows, you might even discover that your engine is perfectly fine, and you don't really need a "new" one after all.

 

you will need a cat

 

here in Texas the only parts of the exhaust system that are considered part of the emissions system is the AIR injection & the cats, all other exhaust parts fall under safety. if the AIR injection manifolds leak, it fails safety. without a cat you would have failed the visual emissions inspection too.

anyone or any shop can do emissions repairs, but only the price of the emissions related parts used will count toward the waiver. only when emissions repairs are done by a certified repair shop will the full amount including labor count toward the waiver.
in some cases a certified repair shop can legally replace non emissions parts that will count towards the waiver that an individual or non-certified shop can not apply to the waiver amount.

with the NOx numbers you posted, i doubt a cat alone will fix your NOx problem. most aftermarket cats don't do much for NOx reduction.
in addition to whats been said, also check your timing & EGR system for proper operation. decarbing the motor probably wouldn't hurt either.

 

You want a soda or something man? really without being sarcastic at all that was the most logical response/ approach i've herd from anyone I've talked to about this. I hadn't thought about the TB being the problem even with the new engine. Nicely done! I think that is exactly what I'm going to do. Get parts that are going to be able to be transfered over to the new engine. If this one is really 'doomed'. Don't get my wrong I hope I can fix this one, but it seems like a lost cause. I'll test it when I have at least $680 in it and if it passes great, if it doesn't then I got 2 years to figure out what to do. I'll give you all the diagnosis tomorrow as i'm going to a shop to get a problem report.

 

Well guys it's still at the shop and has gotten a new EGR valve some spark plugs and a new cat because the old one was gutted! So it's getting there I think I'm at about $750 I think but I told him not to touch anything if it goes over that. So I'll hopefully be picking it up tomorrow. He said it MAY pass emissions now. So that would be your "fix" which is nice. Stay tuned and cross your fingers for me.

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=CTO%2D4116

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...pe=282&PTSet=A

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...pe=960&PTSet=A

Typical ones.... details vary from year to year and from one engine type to another (I don't know what you have) but they're almost all similarly priced.

This is why fixing the emissions stuff on the car is usually not any kind of a big deal.

Sounds like your "mechanic" runs a pretty profitable business there....

 

Another thing to consider when getting it tested...Don't go to the closest shop to your house, unless you DRIVE it for a bit. Let the cat warm up, get the engine up to operating temperature. Your test results will be higher, when everything is still "cold".

I have a no AIR tube cat. My smog pump is still on the car, but has no puller, therefore o belt (I have v-belts, not a serpentine). And my #s were SO LOW, at 170,000 miles, it practically didn't even register!

 

so instead of spending 200 on a cat and egr valve and installing it your self and passing emmisions your now spending 750 to try and pass and it still may not pass as your mechanic said

i dont know how the waivers work where you are but in ohio you still get to pay the all the money to the mechanic its not the dmv giveing out free money to fix your car to pass emmisions
that waiver means you can register till your next echeck because you tried to fix it and spent so much doing so


basicly you just spend alot of money to get out of passing emmision for a year or 2 lol
that mechanic made a ton of money off him swaping out a cat is less then an hour
egr takes maybe another hour so 2 hours labor @ 75 an hour "average dealer price" prices from napa thats what most dealers use for prices EGR Control Solenoid 73 egr valve 76 Catalytic Converter 171

thats 472 dollars so there chargeing more then average dealer wages for labor
not only could you have got all the parts cheaper but you could have even installed them yourself

 

True however I didn't mention everything that he did. to be truthful I don't remember everything he did. It will all be on the writeup and He is saving all the old parts.

About fixing all this stuff myself. If I thought that for sure it would pass if I swaped out these parts you could bet your middle nut I would have done it myself. I hate having mechanics work on my car although it's better then replacing all those parts and then not being able to pass emmisions and atleast get a waiver the repairs.

Right?

 

And....If you did all the work yourself, and still failed? Too bad....No Waiver. Gotta get a "Certified Mechanic" to do the work to get the waiver.

Better to spend the $ and have a chance at a Waiver, than spend the $, and have no chance of getting the waiver.

 

i got cars to pass even when not fireing on all cylinders and burning oil

working egr and cat is all ive ever needed to get a car to pass

 

IMO it would be alot wiser use of money, to do the work yourself as cheeeply as might be reasonable, and aim for the goal of making it pass; rather than just spend a huge mount of money and aim low, for just getting a waiver.

Since after all, you'll just have to face this same situation again next time.

I agree that it's easy to get a car to pass. A good cat and working AIR, and the EGR for cars with compression above 9, is all you really need, beyond making sure it runs right in the first place. It's just really not that tough.

But hey, I'll hand it to you for at least making the attempt. I hope you don't need the waiver!!!

 

She's back! Home, sweet home. I picked her up today around 5:30. Joe at Amerigo said that they put her on the treadmill and she..................PASSED!! Camaro!
15 MPH:
HC 15/48
CO 0.00/0.19
NO 493/632

The bill was a few dollars short of $800 but she runs clean.
Diagnosis: $75
Replace EGR valve: $225
Replace o2 Sensor: $75
Replace Cat: $112
+Labor: $487.50
+environmental Fee(whatever bullshit that is): $23.18
+some dino juice: $5.00
+tax: $35.22
=================================
$795.82
Then I bought the cat at Advanced Auto Parts: $130
==Absolute Total======================
$925

so just like some of you said. I just "fixed" the car.

 

Woohoo!!!

So with any kind of luck, next time you have to get it inspected, it'll just sail right through again.

 

I posted this somewhere else before but I don't think anyone noticed it. In Maryland I know it works. If your car sits low enough that your exhaust or any other part of the car might scrape when entering the garage or going on the treadmill they won't test you and will give you a waiver. I know multiple people who have gotten cars through that way which would have otherwise definetely not passed. I know some people are against lowering, but a good set of adjustable struts/shocks might be a good investment for anyone who thinks this applies to them.

 

since when does virginia make you pass a sniffer test.Maybe someone else who is there now can chime in.Maybe its up to the shop but for the 15 years I was there never once had one done and drove a 74 vega,78 caprice and 86 iroc in 06.check the va police sight that will tell you and if its up to the shop get a new one right now.Also was a mechanic there for years and never heard of this "spend this amount and it will pass".Run dont walk from this shop,find one with less time on thier hands.Can we get a name of the shop?

 

The shop wasn't just out to make $$$.... http://www.deq.virginia.gov/mobile/mobfaq.html. How long ago were you in Virginia? I gugess things have changed since then.

As for the Waiver, $695 in repairs, yet still failing, qualifies you towards a waiver, but there are criteria that have to be abided by, to qualify.

 

.sorry,I had mine done in henrico.I see your city has a special rule if its registered there.my bad.